This has been kicked around since even before I immed. Lots of people have thought the Fort promotion system needed an upheaval but at the end of the day...I don't agree. As long as the Fort has active imm presence I think it works fine. Yes, Corrlaan and I can't be there all the time and that might not be completely fair, but I still think we do a good job of it. I like the Maran powers as they are. I do agree that squires could get an extra power to make them a little more viable pre-Maran. Suggestions are welcome. As far as Acolytes go..I wouldn't mind seeing Altruism moved down to Scribe level. Maybe change it so you get its curing properties/affects nulling as an Acolyte only.

And for those that are complaining about Mantle offering only prot to those who have it as a class ability - if you have prot that portion of your mantle is undispellable. Not omgbbq great, but not worthless either.

Move zeal down to squire level.

Make a new power called divine temperance which can be called upon the weapons of both Squires and Maran. This would temporarily turn their attack into either searing light, fire, or in some cases divine power (I'd reserve the last one for Maran...but you guys would know better), without the benefit of the prog'd attack that comes with silver lightforged weapons.

Divine temperance cannot be used on lightforged weapons.

The cumulative effect of these powers would have the effect of making Squires both slightly tougher (due to protection granted by Mantle) and noticeably more ferocious in combat because they'd be receiving a flat increase in HIT and DAM, plus they'd have access to non-physical attacks.


Any takers?

The fortress IMO could benefit from having a middle rank in each of the two wings. For Maran it seems applicable as a pseudo military organization to have a little more built in distinction for rank and advancement. For Acolytes while not militaristic like the Maran it wouldn't be out of place for have a middle ground. Something similar to the hierarchy that is present in most sufficiently organized religious institutions or educational institutions.

For Maran it could be:

Squire - Adherent - Maran - Captain/Marshal

Powers:

Squire
1. Current version of Mantle

Adherent
1. Maran version of mantle
2. Eyes
3. Zeal

Maran
1. Current powers

For Acolytes it could be:

Scribe - Devotee - Acolyte - Cardinal/Elder Prophet

Scribe
1. current powers

Devotee
1. scribe powers
2. spiritual link
3. spirit sight

Acolyte
1. current powers

Obviously the middle rank titles probably need a little work.

Advancement to the middle rank could be done by cabal leaders or Imms and advancement to the Maran/Acolyte done as is by Imms. This would help reduce the likelihood that someone would be stuck at squire/scribe for long periods when they may be deserving of advancement. It could also strengths RP oppurtunities between cabalmates as the players would likly want to stand out for their leaders as well as IMMs.

IMO it would also make the cabal more interesting/fun to play. I am an achievement type player amd enjoy having more stepping stones then less.

In practice, the adherentation would go just like maranation now, the only difference would be having to go through it twice. Also, it'd just increase the factor where you're obliged to play the Fort Imm/leader times to get noticed. This can be bad if their hours don't naturally match with yours.

I've played Fortress only once, and had to have two pkills before I was seen eligible to be a squire (with Twist playing the rarely present leader (Meagara), the other leader (Forsk) flat out refused to interview me and had the cabal tell me to stop bothering him after asking every half an hour if he was less busy). Then the cabal was declared full and I had to wait one more month for a chance to get interview. When the cabal is like that, I'd think that increasing squire powers would be reasonable, as the cabal isn't as easy in in practice as it is in theory.

>In practice, the adherentation would go just like maranation
>now, the only difference would be having to go through it
>twice.

Why do you think this would be the case? It doesn't make sense. Instead of just IMMs promoting, leaders could do so as well, with more people having the ability it stands to reason it would happen more often/frequently at least to the middle grade.

>Also, it'd just increase the factor where you're
>obliged to play the Fort Imm/leader times to get noticed. This
>can be bad if their hours don't naturally match with yours.

This is true in the current case as well except you have no option other then to get noticed by an IMM who you may not even know when they are online. At least with cabal leaders you could have an oppurtunity for some advancement without playing when an IMM is online.

>I've played Fortress only once, and had to have two pkills
>before I was seen eligible to be a squire (with Twist playing
>the rarely present leader (Meagara), the other leader (Forsk)
>flat out refused to interview me and had the cabal tell me to
>stop bothering him after asking every half an hour if he was
>less busy). Then the cabal was declared full and I had to wait
>one more month for a chance to get interview. When the cabal
>is like that, I'd think that increasing squire powers would be
>reasonable, as the cabal isn't as easy in in practice as it is
>in theory.

Sounds like you had a rough time the only time you tried. I have never felt fort was difficult to get in and have only in practice found Empire easier to get into. But once in I have found it can be difficult to get promoted and often it feels like it just a matter of luck whether you have short or long time as a squire/scribe. Personally I don't think that is good or fun and I don't think I am the only fort player who feels that way.

I think I denied 3 or 4 people as Llondo, just because our numbers were retardedly inflated already. 1 of the people that got denied ended up getting inducted anyways.

From an IC perspective, saying the cabal is "full" is just retarded. You're fighting a war for the good of all Thera, turning people away just because you have enough doesn't make any sense. If anything, the leaders should just be more selective about who they induct. But refusing to even interview? Lame.

Honestly, I think the best thing to do would be to give leaders the ability to promote into full-Maran status. Maybe have Baer sit down with them and make sure they realize to be uber-selective with it, but there's some people who just seem to float below the radar for a long time.

Plenty of leaders would promote just too make their own pk life easier.

I think Cabal leaders should be able to run their cabal, as long as they don't break any of the hard and fast rules of it. This should include promotions.

You might have a Captain or Marshall that's too soft, and the Imms would then probably step in and nudge them a little bit. From my own experience, Baer isn't exactly shy about pushing leaders in the direction they should go. But personally, I think it's better for everyone to err on the side of too many promotions, rather than too few.

That seems easy enough to deal with if it was deemed a problem. There could just be some non-trivial hurdle that needs to be met before they could be eligible for promotion. Just like imperials needs donations, and villagers aps generally need mage kills, fort squires could have something added so that there couldn't be some "auto-promotion" going on.

But, honestly I don't really foresee that as much of a problem even if it happens. The problem in fort is that unlike any other cabal it requires a certain level of IMM involvement to receive the full compliment of powers. No other cabal has this restriction and no other cabal hamstrings its new members like fort does in terms of what is expected and what a new member gains. This is just a way to help even the playing field without simply just giving squires/scribes more powers right out of the gate.

I also think it is an oppurtunity to add depth to the cabal and provide more RP oppurtunities by giving the cabal greater structure.

Squires should get the full Maran version of mantle of the phoenix, complete with all it's affects plus detect evil. The toned down version they get is pretty weak.

Cry, Lightforge, eyes and whatever else I'm missing can wait til full Maran though. Although I might think about ways to adjust the Maranated process (right now it seems like a little bit of luck, hoping Fort Imms catch you at one of those times when you're doing something particularly awesome).

At low levels I think the only thing different between the full mantle and toned down version is flight. I want to say it takes level 40, to get all the effects.

The difference between squire mantle and maran mantle is maran mantle also grants flight and healing from fire damage along with prot vs evil that you get from squire mantle.

Trust me, you don't get all of mantle's powers when you become maran, there are level requirements to at least one of them.

I could be mistaken, but I know it's around here somewhere.

You're missing at least one thing until hero or near hero.

Just off the top of my head.

It is hero.

The point is, it does not matter what level you are as a squire, mantle as a squire only provides protection nothing else. I never mentioned nor intended to insinuate that the normal level requirements with associated powers should be done away with.

My point is, that you don't get full mantle when you maran. You get full mantle when you maran and are a certain level. The difference between squire mantle and maran mantle at level 25 is not all that much. So, if you gave all squires full mantle it really isn't much of an upgrade until you are nearer level 40 to hero. I think the only difference would see right away is flight. Assuming you join the fort around level 20-25, granting squires the full version of mantle would not give you protection from fire or healing from fire damage.

Well I guess I just don't see that many low level full maran's running around. Most of the time chracters do not become Maran until hero/near hero so giving squires full mantle does improve the situation since most fort squires won't become maran till they have passed the level limits. I guess I thought that was obvious.

I personally think that should change, too. But even if it doesn't, a hero pre-Maran should have SOMETHING beyond protection as a cabal power.

As it stands now, Maran/Acolyte have some of the stricter requirements and the crappiest powers in the game, until they get promoted. And since promotions typically don't occur til after hero and beyond 100 hours, it's rough for a while.

Essentially you've given a Squire an easily acquired prep (and often, an inherent ability!) in power form. That goes for both protection and detect evil (which is just plain necessary for induction) That's it. There should definetly be more juice to it there. Something a little more than 'oh, we'll throw in perma-fly as well'. So I did a few ideas to throw into the mix:

New power that boosts Maran away from the warrior-love heavy bint, that squires also gain on induction. Like 'ritual of purging', which can be either used on an evil object (mana regen/morale boost effect) or direct at a person, which inflicts damage depending on how much tainted gear they are wearing. This works better against those holding strong unholy weapons, or who rely on negative energy for their current undead form. You also gain the temporary effects for directing it at a person but depending on circumstances (amount of evil items they're wearing) it might be more beneficial to get the item instead. The only worry I'd have is that some fortress induct decides it'd be awesome to run around with two or three limited evil items for the bonuses. But since no outlanders have run around with adamantite to refresh with, I'd hope that doesn't happen.

Less exciting answer: Give Squires Zeal/Aegis.

A class-specific bonus for coolness. This would encourage rarer classes that don't often maran, while giving a small bonus to those that don't benefit greatly from calling protection/detect evil. I don't have a lot to cover this idea, but someone else might. I was thinking of stealing wards, so a Priest class can call upon a ward against summoning and mages can get a pain warding against physical attacks. Then warriors, thieves, rangers benefit more from mantle anyway so they'd just get a minor bonus. All I can think of is a zeal that works on teammates, or a griefing power that tries to call upon guilt in a foe. Sorry

Anyhow, that's my brain dump. Enjoy.

Actually, I was thinking just make the Squire Powers lesser versions of the Maran powers. Squire Powers.

Mantle of Phoenix Stays the Same. Protection from Evil and Detect Evil.

Lightforge: Weapons become lesser quality. Say Average 20 for those under 40, Ave 24 for those above 40. Abilities would also be decreased (IE: The flaming strike is only half damage of a full Maran). Or, bring back the good old golden weapons and Squires can forge these weapons to protect them on the battlefields, while Maran can forge any of the three.

Eyes: This power is given to Squires. Maran version also lets them since when evil is around, similar to the paladins ability.

Zeal: Instead of Zeal, give Squires a version like Tend Weapons. So that they sharpen their weapon, giving it like a +2-+4 hit and dam roll modification. Or just make Zeal half of what it is for the full Maran.

Cry and Mark should still stay full Maran.

Oh, and bring back the Dragonarmor! Call it Armor of the Phoenix!

And this kind of thinking can easily be carried over to the Acolytes and their powers, just reduce the strength by half of what a full Acolyte would gain.

Going from Squire to Maran is a big deal IC, and it should be represented by a big jump in abilities, rather than just better versions of abilities you already had.

I think Squires need SOMETHING besides protection, but I don't know about all this..

Kiss of the Sun - Gives target +25hp regen effect for a while. Aids recovery, while not being a direct heal.

Upgrades when they become Acolytes so they can use it on themselves, and gains in power when used on others.