Always impressed with your Ragers. Ever since I was Vizzagoth and used to brawl with Abernyte.
I fought you a few times as Grubbin and was impressed with how good a scout/polearm spec was. At first I thought you'd be easy meat but quickly realized you were a tough bastard. A shame to see one of the better Ragers delete, but you always come back. I was also curious about your legacies, any chance of you going into more detail about which ones you had and what you thought of them?

See you in the fields,

ORB

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

Well I start this goodbye from Grubbin with a HUGE appology to Thror and the other battle memebers as I let annoyance and rage dictate once more, stupidly.
I rolled Grubbin up when battle was in the doldrums and his goal was to hero and drag a few folk with me and get the village back on its feet, in that sense...goal achieved. I love the village, always have, just got miffed a little when it changed but its cool enough now.
Grubbin was much more of a beast than I thought he would be and his specs were a great compliment to his choices of race and path in the village, scouts are great fun. They only lack in non-mage gangbangs
which incidently was the reason for the eage delete. I am a real big hater of tribunals and evern more so of gangers. I am a rager but not a berseker, why the need for a gangbang, I am designed to fight mages and did do well. I was perma-lagged, the works by two folks and the lowbies looted as usual. I think your rank should dictate the number of items you get when you type get all corpse. Nothing worse than someone looting you who you cant kill to get stuff back.
I tried to bring back a little bit of the old days with returning eq to people I killed, with the exception of weapons and magicical stuff (except Thalongrim who got his balances back).
Would have liked to have been more focused on Vahlens religion rather than the village waring and ranking others but I prioritised and most likely lost out at never trying. I had no role because I was sick of writing them as stories so I figured I would let people/Imms find out the hard way.
Would liked to have been leader but knew I did not have the time overlaps required for you american player time players so I fought less well than I should have in a mini-rites but made sure I was not pushed over and I also liked the person I fought against and they are proving me right in doing a good job.
Legacys rock and Landslide was chosen by accident by me, got my avalance and landslides mixed up, go figure. But as luck would have it, landslide was way cool.
Regrets, I have a few (obviously deleting is one) but not ever getting a chance to punk Dullameh is one. I saw him alot as I was younger but never later even when I persuaded the GF to let me use her laptop in the evenings.
Will I be back? Hell yes, In battle? Hell yes.
I would like some feedback from enemies and allies alike, good or bad about Grubbin as he has been my favourite character in some time, since Iolanthe and before that Abernyte.

Again, I appologise Thror. I wish I would not get so annoyed but cheap shitty deaths are well...cheap an shitty.

-----Abernyte

Hey beastie.

Had no idea who was behind the player but damn... Abernyte.


Somehow, I thought you'd be over these rage deletes by now.
Regarding Grubbin, he was a damned good character and a true pleasure
to fight alongside with. I reckon you didn't push us around too much
as a drillmaster, but that was perhaps because we were good soldiers?
(regardles of what ooc-gawkers post on forums).

There was nothing I'd add to Grubbin or take away from him, save this
rage delete tendency. Very well played.

I've heard a lot of people say they hate Tribunals, and I honestly don't see why. One half complains because we're not omnipotent gods that have the authority, power, and knowledge to see all crimes, and the other half complains if we see crimes at all. Magistrates actually have appropriately limited power, and outside the confines of two areas on the entire MUD, they are essentially caballess. I find Tribunal to be a vast improvement over the old Arbiter cabal from both ends of the spectrum; strong enough to deal with criminals in certain situations, but limited enough to both allow crimes to be gotten away with, and to give members of the cabal a little 'breathing space' and solid IC reasons not to get involved in every single in-city skirmish.

I was disappointed to see you delete over that fight. And surprised - I always thought of battleragers, and battlerager players, as those who should be a bit more detatched about their lives and their items.

Mind you, you were wanted, poked your head into Tar Valon, yelled asking if we'd seen any mages, and then stood two steps outside the city. IC, a pretty gutsy way to say "I don't give a crap about the law!" So Aiakalymn and I, who were sitting in Tar Valon and chatting, went after you, not entirely prepared, outside the city, with no aid from our Tribunal powers. Heck, on rager terms even - neither one of us so much as quaffed a potion.

Anyways, I wouldn't call that a "cheap and shitty" death. Pretty much provoked by Grubbin's actions and words, and it took us a long time to take you down. Believe me, me trying to take down a neutral battlerager of your strength alone as what was effectively a caballess paladin of dubious playerkilling skills would have been next to impossible. Not that I wouldn't have tried it if Aiakalymn hadn't been there, mind you, *grin* but still, I'm just saying I'd hardly call that fight cheap and shitty. You had several occasions to flee, which you used to try to separate us with drive, something we were both scratching our heads about long after you were gone. (And I'm not someone that usually sits around scratching my head over tactics).

Anyways, I just wanted to comment, because the rage suicide, the name-calling before it, and then calling the fight "cheap and shitty" here, well, I couldn't bite my tongue. I do wish you well with your next character, but my advice would be to try to detatch yourself a little. It's a lot more fun when you do. Actually I always thought battle players *had* to have a detatched attitude in order to have fun in the cabal because of the nature of the restrictions, and the number of them that con-die. Again, I was really surprised to see your reaction.

Good luck...

It was a gangbang when it needent be and I hardly flouted the laws, I rarely entered town ever except to buy some food or hit a mage. The fact that I dont start fight with arbiters/tribunals always gives them the advantage against the ragers. I had over 1400hps which is why it took so long but a dwarf with no weapons doesn't last that long in a gangbang with shieldbash+ cheapshot and trip and cheapshot spamming at me. I got through three commands in total. Two drives to get away and one desperate flee. I drove because I was bound in legs and flee would make me fall and get more lags. was gonna drive and then flee to lessen chance of getting the cheap on the fall if I did flee. at about 500hps I had to flee as drive failed twice to work for me to get away and as luck would have it I fled north into a room where the only exit was south, I tried to unbind twice and failed and then figured you would come in, being in a room with one exit, all the laggins you were doing and being bound would limit my chances all the more so I went south and hoped to catch a break when you were not spamming but you caught me again and I never got another command through. Hence the title of a cheap and shitty death. Any death that comes from multiple people on you spamming one command to lag you out is cheap and shitty in my book, not yours?...maybe I have higher standards and its that annoyance that made me delete.

-----Abernyte

You're right - the fight really sucked for you, but I don't know what else you expected poking your head into Tar Valon, yelling out, and then standing outside with two Tribunals in sight. Should I have stopped to say "Excuse me Aiakalymn, please don't assist me, that might be hard on the criminal. Oh, and if you insist on assisting me, let's not trip or bash him too much, shall we? That would really make it really difficult for the criminal to escape, and we don't want that."

We all have fights that suck. I've had my lion's share of fights that suck for me. I'd say with very few exceptions, there was always *something* I could have done to avoid it even if there was nothing I could do once the fight was engaged. I hung around when I shouldn't have, I went someplace I knew I'd have a good chance of being hunted, I attacked someone I knew I didn't have a chance against. But whatever, it's fun, right? They don't ask "by what name do you wish to be mourned" for nothin.

I guess I just think that having a fight that sucks for you doesn't necessitate the label "cheap and shitty". I think it's "cheap and shitty" when people have little permagroups that go around killing the same people over and over again. I think it's "cheap and shitty" when people pick their fights soley because they are hung up on their pkratios. I think it's "cheap and shitty" when people use ooc knowledge to choose when to hop on the gang-bang flavor-of-the-hour, and I think it's "cheap and shitty" when some chump sits around at level 25 and mass playerkills easy pickings until he distends and then deletes. Basically, I think it's "cheap and shitty" when people playerkill for reasons completely unfounded by roleplaying. I do not think it's "cheap and shitty" when people hunt or kill based on their character's roles and motivations, based on interactions, and having fun with the game in an honest, by-the-rules manner. Though sometimes those roles and motivations will mean you get summoned and gangbanged and lagged into the ground and it sucks, I don't think it's "cheap and shitty". And believe you me, I've had it happen to me plenty.

I think a topic like this might be good for Shokai's "Uncle Floofi's" thread in his imm forum. I've seen people get *really* upset over dying. Of course, I think it's totally reasonable to roleplay depression or anger or whatever at your death, but I often sense people's level of upsetness is very REAL, and not just roleplayed, and not just normal "darn, I'm frusterated that I lost a game". I hear it a lot as a Magistrate, when people get wasted in a city and they are quite obviously upset in not just in an IC way. This isn't to say I havn't had my days where I've just been frusterated and said "You know, I think I've had enough of *this* for today", and log off, but a lot of the OOCish sentiment is furious and often directed at other players. I'm interested to know why people give up strong, established characters that are heroes, have made a name for themselves, that mortals and imms have invested time into as well, because of a rage incident? I can understand it with characters that really didn't have much going for them anyways, but with a character like Grubbin who has a lot going for him I don't understand.

> I've seen people get
>*really* upset over dying. Of course, I think it's totally
>reasonable to roleplay depression or anger or whatever at
>your death, but I often sense people's level of upsetness is
>very REAL, and not just roleplayed, and not just normal
>"darn, I'm frusterated that I lost a game".

It's because i know that Real life isn't fair, but a game should be.
God knows,abernyte and myself have berated each other for deleting perfectly serviceable characters since time began (Rank 17 paladin abernyte?) but typically for rather different reasons to each other.

If a character can get killed by essentially being perma-lagged like that once, what's to say it's going to happen -everytime-. Coming upon the quite obvious failings of your character is rather depressing.
(yes in that situation if aber had no-rem weapons etc etc)
Also the biggest contributer is dying to someone you feel you shouldn't have ever ever died to in a million years, the humiliation is intense.

All my deaths but one have been to ragers, and I'm a warrior. About half of the time it has been attacking a rager out of town because they were wanted, by my self. ie no powers vs deathblow and thirst.

However, the other half consisted mainly of ragers attacking me, and most of these were for "travelling with a mage". However, by attacking me first they allowed the mages to escape every single time, and just killed me by permalagging. Once, I was choked by a whip spec, slowed and softed by an arcane, and three ragers ran in and killed me while letting the mage and his friend walk away.

I don't judge all ragers by these events. Don't judge all tribunals by your bad experiences.

>However, by attacking me first they allowed the mages to
>escape every single time, and just killed me by
>permalagging. Once, I was choked by a whip spec, slowed and
>softed by an arcane, and three ragers ran in and killed me
>while letting the mage and his friend walk away.

Very often it's a case of attacking the mage, he flees and then the other 2 morons in the group keep you in combat preventing you from pulling off your "fatality" and walking away a happy bunny.
*shrug* I feel zero pity for non-mages travelling with mages who then die to the rager.

>I don't judge all ragers by these events. Don't judge all
>tribunals by your bad experiences.

Experiences? It's outright dislike.
What's an arbiter ever done for me, other than get me killed by inducing complacency?

First point agreed, but I've been the first attacked each time. In several cases the mage has fought for several rounds and then just worded or fled and walked off. If the mage was attacked but got away I wouldn't have a problem with being finished off for fighting alongside him.

The fact that the ragers have all tried to permalag me in each case has meant that the mage will ALWAYS escape if he wants to. Every time. You can't kill a mage if your whole group spends the first six or so rounds hitting only his warrior ally and not lagging the mage.

Also, no matter what you think about travelling with mages, you can't justify a gang bang on someone unconcious and is being spelled up by the mage, instead of attacking the mage doing the spelling up. Especially when you are a scout and should be able to tell that your victim is softened. If it is a mistake it should be clear from the fact that you are hitting well above your normal power. The mistake wouldn't have happened if they hadn't chosen to target a warrior over a mage.

>First point agreed, but I've been the first attacked each
>time. In several cases the mage has fought for several
>rounds and then just worded or fled and walked off. If the
>mage was attacked but got away I wouldn't have a problem
>with being finished off for fighting alongside him.

>>Also, no matter what you think about travelling with mages,
>you can't justify a gang bang on someone unconcious and is
>being spelled up by the mage, instead of attacking the mage
>doing the spelling up. Especially when you are a scout and
>should be able to tell that your victim is softened. If it
>is a mistake it should be clear from the fact that you are
>hitting well above your normal power. The mistake wouldn't
>have happened if they hadn't chosen to target a warrior over
>a mage.

You're living in cloud cookoo land if you don't give a shred of consideration to what the ragers are thinking. Who says they discerned you? Who says they could pk the mage? etc etc

>You're living in cloud cookoo land if you don't give a shred of >consideration to what the ragers are thinking. Who says they >discerned you? Who says they could pk the mage? etc etc

1. they could pk the mage. you can easily determine who can pk who until you reach the ranks where they may or may not be able to depending on how close each is to their next rank.

2. I don't think they did discern me. However, their practice of attacking the warrior first caused them to make this mistake. If they did not go for the warrior first the mistake would not have happened. If they do plan on working like this it might be worth trying to determine the situation. Either way, as soon as I was attacked it was obvious I was softened with or without a discern because of the damage I took when they got past my defenses, and it could have been confirmed with a discern at that stage.

This particular group still took all my equipment (or that little bit that didn't poof) even though their mistake was pointed out by a number of people. I would argue that looting a kill made in these circumstances is not the mark of a worthy villager.

In summary, I think it was an honest mistake. But I think their tactics which caused this mistake are clearly ineffective unless their purpose is to kill warriors while mages get away. And if you make the mistake you should not compound it by stripping the guy who was an enemy of the mage.

It sounds to me that you are basically saying it is ok to fight warriors instead of mages, since the mages will probably get away anyway. Might as well make sure you kill someone, and not even try for the mage.

Well if they were assassin or thief and could sneak up and discern its all good but discern for a warrior would let most people run away in the lag from discerning.
I always go for the mage first because tactically its best as 9/10 times they fall down quicker and it gives the warrior time to leg it out of there.
As for full looting, well I never let any rager knowingly full loot less they had the 'hunted' flag and even then I dont recall letting it happen.
I hate full looting at any time and so I dont do it and had a good understanding with many of the mages I fought and killed and was killed by.

If ragers arrive: gt word when I attack you
murder mage
say damn ragers, he got away from me.

-----Grubbin

Well, I went back and forth on Grubbin, and in the end I really liked him a lot. I thought the character was incredibly consistant and that you made an excellent rager and an excellent Drillmaster. There are a limited number of people who play during the hours you and I do, so I had a good guess as to who you were and I agree that this was your best incarnation since Abernyte and Iolanthe. Good luck with your next villager.

Of all characters to rage delete, you have to rage delete Grubbin? He was excellent. Glad you've adapted, and to an extent, enjoy the changes in the village. If you ever want a leader spot, don't worry that much about your times... I see you on more than enough to justify a leader position. I found Grubbin to be an extremely good character. Well done.

Well...this sucks. Grubbin and Lohrn were Thralkoz's best friends in the village. I knew you were Abernyte, well cause of your playing times and you knew where everything was. As a newbie to the mud you helped me alot, and often I felt stupid being commander next to you. We sure had alot of fun, rushing in axes, and swords flying! Well I do hope you roll a new Rager...

I knew after I fought you that first time that it was you. It is real easy to pinpoint certain ragers, because very few people are as good as you are at them. Damn good character look forward to see you in the next incan.

Damn...I always heard from everyone else about what a badass you were, but we never got to fight. I think you were one of the people that I most looked forward to fighting, but I guess our times are just complete opposites. Anyway good job from what I heard (and read) and maybe we'll get to fight in another lifetime.

That Whil guy.

I go on vacation and just get back today to see that you have deleted, well damn. You looked promising and I was looking foward to speaking with you but you had to go and do that. Ah well, good luck on your next char

I only fought you once, with falcon, and you are a beast. I made an note never to fight you without a/b/s again. Scary little freak dwarf.

Hey buddy,
Well, I saw you a bit as this guy, didn't know itw as you, I probably would have if I was playing battle, but my role is only supporting at this time! Anyway, the truth will be known in time. GOod work though, congrats as always...email me punk!

Aaron

>Again, I appologise Thror. I wish I would not get so annoyed
>but cheap shitty deaths are well...cheap an shitty.

What to say, how to say it. Firstly, great step forward with
the scout/warrior combo. If I haven't seen it done, I haven't
seen it done as effectively as you did it. My hats off to you.

I couldn't discern who you were at first, although I was leaning
towards you based on your infamous use of dwarven dialect. You
have a way of making it distinctly difficult yet easy to catch
onto. Even better that it drifts away from the scottish accent
that I tend to butcher.

The title was one of many things I was hoping to do involving
your character. He was a blast to watch and I only felt that
he would come closer to the sapper ideal with his questions
and concerns regarding his position as Drillmaster. It was
an attempt to bring out the best in you. My only complaint
was that you didn't make use of the 'communication' issue
both Intronan and I continue to stress. You wrote a few notes
but as Drillmaster, didn't discuss much the different styles
and possibilities of war. Minor considering you were often
times fighting for your life or helping villagers do one
thing or another.

I even took most of my work days to log on and spend more
time with those afternoon ragers in hopes to better their
immteraction in the afternoons. You were a hoot to watch
in the legacy quests, although I was hoping you'd be a
little more motivated. Still I blame the woman, likely
expecting quality time out of you

Disappointed that you deleted, but quite sure your next rager
will be even better. Even hoping at some time you might step
up a little higher than a hero with some ideas and suggestions
that might help fill out battle.

Again, one of the many great ragers I've come to find out
was you. Completely impressed with Grubbin and hoping to
see what your next idea will be.

Good luck and thanks for giving me something to keep an eye on.

I noticed that Grubbin stated that he had no role.

Well, I've been writing long, drawn out roles forever because I thought
I'd get ignored otherwise. My question is, will the Imms not mind if
I decided to have a roleless, yet well thought-out character? To be
honest, writing roles can sometimes really bug me out...because I
never can make one that seems to be less than 5 pages, and that's
creatively exhausting.

>I noticed that Grubbin stated that he had no role.

Actually, Grubbin did have a role that was perhaps
over half a page long.


>Well, I've been writing long, drawn out roles forever
>because I thought
>I'd get ignored otherwise. My question is, will the Imms not
>mind if
>I decided to have a roleless, yet well thought-out
>character? To be
>honest, writing roles can sometimes really bug me
>out...because I
>never can make one that seems to be less than 5 pages, and
>that's
>creatively exhausting.

I can't speak for the rest of the immortals, but personally, I
look for a role in every empoweree. If they don't have a role
I hint to them that they need one before I continue with them.

Roles don't have to be long stories. I find it repulsive at times
when I check someone's role and it's 20 pages long. I also find
it repulsive if I check a role that is poorly formatted. <80
characters folks!

Lastly, roles are great ways to give immortals an impression of
your character. They don't need to be stories. They can be
specific details that make your character unique. I often find
out how to title someone based on their role. I also find out
how to reward/quest people based on things in their past.
I personally think it is a great way to start the immteraction
between a mortal and an immortal.

However, I have and often times do come across people who don't
have roles that manage to get their role/role-playing to
perk my interest. This usually leads into great immteraction
also.

That's about as much advice as I can give you. Probably didn't
help much.

Sad to see a skilled foe go. You where atleast coragus and a tough opponent. cudos, and luck to your next char.

See ya.