And deleted like that?

If so did your Imm account get nailed too?

I got lazy with the password for Zekaris and someone deleted me. I happened to be logged on as Lyristeon at the time, so I bit my tongue. Fortunately there were some Imps around and they handled it.

Did you see yourself log on and think.. WTF?

I'd love to see that Imm log!

Well that's pretty ####ed up though and I hope we don't have to worry about that anymore.

Another question is... What kind of person would go through hundred of millions of keystrokes in order to hack Zeek....?

It was treated as it should have been. I didn't say anything, so there wasn't really anything to log.

I am building some more imm logs for the future. Ever since Arvam went dormant, the funny archive stuff has kind of gone by the wayside. We should have something put together soon though.

It's always a concern. Some yutz running a dictionary brute force attack shouldn't get anywhere, but if people get lazy about passwords, then hackers will get in. Clients like Zmud allow you to have your password as a system variable, meaning for the most part you only need to enter it once. With other clients its a good idea to set it as your own variable (so long as you are the only one using the program).
With CF being telnet it probably took the hacker 10 mins to write a script.

After 3 failed login attempts, make it so that character cannot log in for 1 to 5 minutes. That way, the hacker wouldn't be able to run through so many combinations so quickly, and it wouldn't inconvenience the real player of the character that much.

We've already made some code alterations (which Daevryn alluded to) which address this sort of thing. They aren't bulletproof (nothing is), but we're in better shape now.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Then you have a DOS attack as the hacker locks everyone out of the game.
Rest assure the Imps have chewed this over and taken steps, but for a player's part being good about passwords is the first step

Since the staff policy has always been, if you get hacked it's your tough luck and the character is done. I get that you wouldn't have wanted it done to your character, but then neither did anyone else who was forced to eat a deletion for something someone else did. Just bleh.

I addressed everyone who was hacked this time around.

Typically, "hacked" characters in the past have been people who let their roommates or dumb friends know their password and later regretted it. This was a hell of a brute force attack on a lot of different characters on a scale that I personally haven't seen on CF before, one that the code didn't handle very well at the time. I recognized that it was something we could defend players against better, made the changes to do so, and fixed the people who suffered as best I could.

Ultimately, if it's going to piss you off every time I or someone does something that's not consistent with something BoltThrower or whoever did a dozen years ago, you're going to be pissed off a lot. Some people got screwed, and I had enough free time and know-how to do so, so I did. It seems a little ridiculous to think that some people would be happier if I'd instead told those people "Sorry, but Russian hackbots pwnzor you."

>I addressed everyone who was hacked this time around.
>
>Typically, "hacked" characters in the past have been people
>who let their roommates or dumb friends know their password
>and later regretted it. This was a hell of a brute force
>attack on a lot of different characters on a scale that I
>personally haven't seen on CF before, one that the code didn't
>handle very well at the time. I recognized that it was
>something we could defend players against better, made the
>changes to do so, and fixed the people who suffered as best I
>could.

Which isn't at all what Lyristeon said.

>Ultimately, if it's going to piss you off every time I or
>someone does something that's not consistent with something
>BoltThrower or whoever did a dozen years ago, you're going to
>be pissed off a lot. Some people got screwed, and I had
>enough free time and know-how to do so, so I did. It seems a
>little ridiculous to think that some people would be happier
>if I'd instead told those people "Sorry, but Russian hackbots
>pwnzor you."

#### you. Thats all I can say to this. I'm sick of you dismissing every complaint I have as "something from BoltThrowers day". I posted about a bug with the Dragon Spirit quest and you accused me of using someone elses walkthrough, despite the fact that I've done the quest with nearly every character I've had since the area went in. I've lost count of the humber of groups I've dragged through that damn quest. Funny thing is, I turned out to be right, didn't I?

This has NOTHING to do with things back in BoltThrowers day. This is the #### that goes on here right now, with the current staff and when you dismiss current issues as the "previous administrations" problem or someone cheating it pisses me off. Call me a paranoid crackpot all you want but don't you dare tell me this wasn't a unique situation where characters got hacked and restored, and that a mortal played by an imm wasn't in the mix. The very beginning of your post you dismiss people who may have been legitimately hacked in the past. Just because more than one person got hacked this time, it's suddenly an exception? Or was it really just you couldn't restore one without looking shady for not restoring the others?

Generally, I dismiss your complaints because they're based on several assumptions which aren't true.

When that fails, I fall back on dismissing your complaints because you're an obnoxious jackass.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day, though!

I can admit when I'm wrong, and have done so repeatedly. Show me one single instance of you or Valg ever having done the same, even when you were proven to be wrong.

Have a spiffy day.

They thought they were once, but it was a mistake.


I'm not sure Neppy fit's in that boat though.

Here's one:

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=4&topic_id=57638&mesg_id=57645

Elsewhere in the same thread are other examples. Someone with more forum search ambition than I have can certainly turn up more.

>Call me a paranoid crackpot all you want but don't you dare
>tell me this wasn't a unique situation where characters got
>hacked and restored ... Just
>because more than one person got hacked this time, it's
>suddenly an exception?

Yeah, it is, and I think that makes perfect sense. If one person's house is damaged by flooding, it's "better luck next time" If a thousand people have their houses damaged by flooding then charities step in and federal disaster relief money is spent. What's so strange about the idea that a widespread problem might warrant more attention and assistance than an individual problem?

Furthermore, I'm pretty sure there have been cases in the past where the normal "tough luck" policy has been bent because a bunch of people all got screwed at once. But I'm sure that was all a conspiracy to make an for an imm too, right?

There's more to it than that. The guy was being watched while he was doing it. It wasn't as if it happened hours or even minutes before. It was all being tracked during real time. A lot easier to figure out what somebody is doing if you are watching them doing it then going back and trying to figure out what happened and fixing it.

It's more about timing than anything. I had just as much of a risk of being deleted as anyone. But, there is a huge difference when someone is spamming millions of passwords hoping to get lucky than if one person just happens to know your password and just logs in. I wasn't the only one saved, just so you know.

You flat out said you got lazy with your password and got hacked. Previously, this was met with "tough ####, you should be more careful" and a deny. You didn't say a word about anyone else being hacked. Sure, you can say we shouldn't have to be told everything, but when you toss out "I got lazy with my password and got hacked so an imp fixed it" with nothing else, as someone who has been hacked previously and forced to delete over it you can hardly blame me for going "Uhh, what the ####?".

Sorry, but, I don't have to explain everything to you. You are not an immortal so you don't get to know everything. You can think what you want and as long as you continue to keep thinking the way that you do with your responses, I know that everything is right in this world.

That being said, if my character wasn't restored, I easily would have moved on. It isn't a life or death situation for me.

l

It was awhile ago.

Was it a gaping Maw moment?

Did you at least tat the guy before slaying him?

I stayed completely out of it.

Anyone impacted by that incident got restored from backups. We made that publicly known at the time. Where were your protests then that we were restoring those characters from backup? Or does it only matter if one happens to be played by an Immortal?

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Anytime anyone previously has been hacked, they were told "Tough ####, thats your problem". The only reason I see for this one to have been handled differently was because an imm was also hacked. As someone who has had a character hacked previously and been told "tough luck, you should have protected your password better" before having the character denied, seeing exceptions made like this really pisses me off.

Except I don't think they knew Zeek was an Imm then accourding to Lyristeons post ANNND, I can't imagine the #### they would have to wade through when dealing with all the complaints.

Pretty cut and dry case of good decision making here I think.

Also, what good did it do Zeek? That is the least deathful Shaman I have ever seen! =)

Heh. Well, I wasn't the least by far. But, you can look at the gank-o-meter and see why I wasn't moreso.

As someone who is often publicly critical of decisions around here I would like to state that I think your actions regarding this password cracking incident are in line with reality and a good effort over all.

I didnt really fear you until dispel played a role along with a basher wielding mithril maces. Or the general idea of fighting you at the spirit.

I didnt really have any opinion on Zekaris until the last time you tried to talk to me in which you tried to talk me down using information and statements that Zekaris didnt really know. And seeing who plays zekaris now, I'm not sure how to take those comments and how to feel about it.

Umm....those statements that you heard from Zekaris were well spoken of when you were demoted from Provincial. Mind you that, anyone who was demoted or removed from the Spire all got an earful from me in regards to changing sides, failing etc. You were no different. I think Iukulli, not you, heard it more from Zekaris than anyone else. I tried to rp with everyone in regards to many different aspects. Even Pissudin got an earful from me and he had never done anything wrong.

If you think there was any inappropriate behavior, feel free to send it to the imps@carrionfields.com.

I may have grouped with one or two of you while gaining some earlier ranks.

Brinkmun - Probably the rager I talked to the most about situations and where the evil flying duo had been seen last.

Golhyrr - You would log on and I would head to the weald. Unfortunately, my ability to stand toe to toe with anyone at the hero ranks was really poor, so I couldn't spend as much time in the city as you did.

The other dark-elf whose name escapes me and I am too lazy to go look for it - See Golhyrr.

Daevryn- I knew that I was going to be missing you for a chunk of the summer because of the marriage and all. I just didn’t expect it to be a couple months. Enjoy the new life.

Much respect to the rest of you. Sorry if I disappointed you with my actions as of late. Started off good and just fizzled out.

Guilty as charged. I can be a deadbeat dad.

Hope you had some good times nonetheless. I really liked your take on combining Daevryn and Outlanders. (I don't think it came across as well in your role as it did actually in play, so hopefully there are some cool logs in the pile!)

Yeah, definitely was a good time when you had the time to give.

I don't log. Unfortunately, I play from a Mac with software that is crap for keeping any real length of scrollback without getting hit with the spinning lag wheel. Yes, it's true. I play from my laptop in my recliner. I am sure that having a desktop pc and sitting upright would benefit my abilities more than finding an ABS sourse.

Nexus:

Very little interaction with most of you, but, towards the end there was more. My idea of balance differed from yours. If you spend your life as the underdog against a lot more folks than is normal, you don’t ever think it’s okay to be attacked by someone claiming it is about balance. I know your view point and you don’t have to explain it. But, from Zekaris’s standpoint, you should have been hunting Tribunals all the time, every minute.

Xilia- When you died as fast as you did, well, I felt really bad for you. Sorry, but, Zekaris’s way was to attack those around you until you booted that guy out.

The rest of you I had really little interaction with.

Scion:

Victoria- Badass who mixes it up against any odds.

Ravon- Badass who doesn’t like to mix it up against any odds that are not positive.

Drezen- I don’t even know if we fought. That’s okay, I had my hands full anyway.

No worries, it was a good rot you pulled off.
I LOVED Zekaris--Honestly, the conversations we had(though not many) were MUCH more enjoyable than half of the ones where people agree with me.
You were way cool, and I always was impressed at how you spoke, and acted. You were a heavy underdog, and played it well.

Hehe, makes me chuckle that you wanted to rot me as Lyristeon and I mentioned Zekaris. Had no clue it was you.

Once again, I loved the character, and I've loved the whole attacks on Thera--Immteraction is AMAZING. Make another Mortal, go Tribunal, and f*ck things up.
I hope you never viewed Xilia as TOO lightheaded, hehe.

I had already deleted Zekaris when I came to you with that knowing this thread would be started. Glad you picked that up.

Why does everyone think I should play a Tribunal? I am afraid that my sense of humor might out me.

Well, I disagree with the whole "Spire's not as easy as it looks!" thing, I've played quite a few of them myself when schools in--Not much effort needed, warranting and guards? Ppssht....Pretty easy.

The reason I'm saying play a Tribunal is that I LOVED how you played Zekaris. As I said before--The Views, the actions, the speech....It was refreshing!
The Spire has a TON of just....Bland Magistrates.
And come on...You're Lyristeon. Bring some Chaos to that ther' Spire.

Even better, make a Nexun. Gimmie' some back-up!

I wasn't a big fan of Zekaris at first, probably because I think we first me as you summoned me from chamo, but you grew on me. We had some really fun fights after that though and I enjoyed the occasional banter. That one in the shadow grove was probably one of my favorites, since I figured that by the time I knew whether it was going to turn out well or badly, it would be too late to do anything about it.

Fortress:

A few times I would be outside the Fortress trying to find someone to summon away from a faith virtue paladin. I tried it today a few times with Niela and I finally…after sitting there a long time, got it off. It didn’t kill Niela, but, damn, I just wanted to try anything to stand up to you guys. Heck, I even ignored Dyrin walking past me a few times to try to lure you into a false sense of security.

Faith Paladins- Watching nothing get through your essence and trying vainly to get a dispel off after your dispelling supplication was just a nuisance. I wound up avoiding most of you most of the time unless I could get lucky.

The rest of you- I only really attacked you guys if you were in the way. I rarely hunted any of you unless you really upset me. Zekaris didn’t really see you guys as defilers, but, when you looted me worse than any imperial ever did, I decided to try a few times when the odds were more in your favor.

Empire:

Hunsobo- I think I said it all on your thread. Awesome job.

Kharghurln- Same thing as Hunsobo. Awesome job.

Waserax- Okay, I will admit it. I took a cheap one from you at the Fortress and it ate me alive. Hence the reason I came at the four of you at the Huntress and attacked you instead of Hunsobo first. Let you get that one on me. Hunsobo asked me why I did that and now you both know. You guys made a nasty pair and I was just meat against you guys unless I could get away. Awesome job.

Ktaar- You caught me hurt that one time and I couldn’t keep you around any other times after the withers. You do your job extremely well and I am sure there is an Emperor position just waiting for you to take. Awesome job.

The rest of you I don’t know or remember right now.

For what it's worth, sightblinder was very effective. It would take multiple attempts to heal your blindness and it forced me to waste a round marking you when we fought. Inquisitor (if that's the one that amps demonfire against same-aligns) was also very effective - if I withdrew from fighting you it was more likely wariness of demonfires combined with dropped DR as opposed to withers. You were a welcome foe and good luck with the next.

Out of curiousity, how did you like insect swarm as a shaman?

I spent most of my time fighting mages, so their saves when in form were just plain nasty. When blindness landed, it was great, it just didn't land as much as I would have thought. At lower ranks, it landed almost all the time. Just the opposite at the hero ranks.

Inquisitor rocked. No complaints there for sure.

Insect swarm is great...if you can stand there long enough to use it. At the hero ranks, I would normally start with a wither or rot depending upon the situation. You have the two rounds of lag before the next thing to call. If I called the insects, I would have to flee immediately afterwards to go heal up. Parry and shield block usually didn't do it. So, you want to get in one debilitating supp in before you flee. Calling insects was nice when you knew you had them in trouble before they knew it. But, if you had a few other people fighting them, insects didn't last long at all. All in all, I probably didn't use it as much as I would have liked given the circumstances.

>Waserax- Okay, I will admit it. I took a cheap one from you
>at the Fortress and it ate me alive. Hence the reason I came
>at the four of you at the Huntress and attacked you instead of
>Hunsobo first. Let you get that one on me. Hunsobo asked me
>why I did that and now you both know. You guys made a nasty
>pair and I was just meat against you guys unless I could get
>away. Awesome job.

What happened at the Fortress? Honestly, I don't remember.

It was one of those massive brawls that was happening, you fell next to me either convulsing or incapacitated and I used a demonfire on you. Heh. I figured, better that I get it than the Fortress folks.

I was that mace spec Meshskel.


04/29/2007
14:24:08 <45 Fire War> (Deleted) Meshskel the Champion of Arms, Imperial Blade $
Age: 164, Hours: 87, Align: Evil, Ethos: Orderly


Had a few bouts with you. I remember when we were ranking in Darsylon and you came to fight us. Killed you there. I think I still have the log though.

Think we fought other times, can't remember. Then I deleted.

Shame though, never talked to you.

Do you know how much gold all you ####ers cost me in promotions/oaths?

Yeaaaaaaaah....

You know, I had it hard and I didn't have fun. It's been like that since...well since my High Priest Zevsa. So I keep struggling near the hero range when I have a bad day and I just do '#### it' and leave for a few weeks.

But hey! I might be back sometimes trying to get that seat I always wanted since I helped bring the Empire back as Sakard!

In particular Hunsobo was decidedly unfun when someone anathed Kargthak who was about the same level and way better equipped and he decided to go hunting Imperials (when the day before we'd been levelling together).

Or after I got killed and fairly deeply looted by Team Fort and then the next few nights ended up dying repeatedly to them.

Etc. etc.

I can't blame you for deleting if it wasn't fun. I almost did too. Glad I didn't though.

Post it! I don't remember. Heh.

I really respected Zekaris and had no idea it was you (good thing, or I might have lost that respect - HAH!)

I did like fighting you except Rot was so low on my funstick that I tried to avoid fighting any shamen if I couldn't attack them first. It wouldn't kill me usually, but it'd knock me out of the fight for several hours (like 20).

There was on particular time you really sorta had me on the ropes and you didn't know it. You had rotted me and then you were trying to damn me (to lower my con, I was sure) and I was trying to seal the kill on you. The problem was we kept skirmishing and my con kept dropping and I didn't have time to put on all my +con gear. I think I had insects on me too so I couldn't teleport.

I finally had to just run to the Palace and hope you didn't follow (centurions were in place but I would have been in no shape to go defend them) and summon me out - I'd have been fighting you with juggling balls in one hand and about half my eq on the ground because my inventory was too full of limited stuff.

Thankfully I think you ended up getting harassed by someone else - fort, scion, tribs...who knows. Or you just didn't figure I'd go somewhere as obvious as the Palace. Or you didn't realize just how bad off I was.

I know the time you are speaking about, and yeah, there were like four tribs on that were gunning for me too. After you got past the rot, you came back with a couple of them to seal the deal.

Oh yeah, rot was good for giving me a chance to go grab another prep that was nearby. Secret outlander stuff could keep me in a fight a bit longer if I got lucky.

Tribunal- Some of you rocked, some of you were just lame. But, it’s all good.

Pissudin- Awesome job. I haven’t seen a Trib in a long time who just gets it right. BTW, my hatred was more from the evil thing than anything to do with you. I think you are doing an excellent job and one of the main reasons that the Tribs are where they are at right now. You had more solo kills against me than anyone. I think I had one solo death before getting into the hero ranks. I probably wound up with like a dozen or so.

Iukulli- Same thing for you. I know you got booted, but, as good as you are, I am sure there is a spot for you in there somewhere.

Izuhlzin- Killed me all the time until the changes were made to the transmuters. Didn’t kill me as many times as Pissudin solo, but you did get me.

Siloreelo- Holy prep batman! I don’t blame you. Didn’t rp with you as much as the others, but, your holding the leader spot shows you know your stuff.

Babou- Why you take and hold things you can’t use is beyond me. You seem to show up most of the time when there are a lot of the Tribunals around. I don’t know what else to say about you, but, you definitely fall into the bleh category.

Geoona- See Babou. Gear monkey. (Because whore is not a nice thing to say)

Maethron- Rarely saw you leave town. I don’t blame you for it. Hide and traps at the outer is just plain nasty. Stick to what works I guess.

Teleon- Orderly good paladin. Sorry for the way I treated you, but, it was all in the rp. We were the opposites and that’s just the thing. You seem to be doing a really good job for Tribs. Well done.

Zekaris... I loved to hate you, but deep inside, i hated to love you.

Many things i could say about you, things like the only outlander that striked me in town after I have become a vindicator, the only character that was present in every beat down i had while in vindicator spot and the strong feelig i had when we shortly talked that I was talking with a beast/demon, not a man. Besides that I believe you did a great job, we had our moments and I enjoyed every single of them.

About our fights, only in our last one i went unprepared, and if instead of trying to heal you tormented once or twice, i belive it was yours, I was ready to die there.
About blindness, yes, you got it a few time but i agree it got harder to do with edges and shifter being able to benefit from saves from eq. I remember changing at least one piece of gear before engaging you...

I also made some crazy atempts at you guys, jumping on the visible criminal and knowing 2 or 3 of you were camo nearby, in the hope to bring one down fast enough, of course, it did not work and my heart was pumping so much that it almost fall of my mouth.

I thank you for your time around, and if you allow a strange request... play once in our side of war, things also aint as easy as they look like (damn chamaleon/insects/entangle).

One of the nice things about my characters is that I only care about gear as much as just getting what I need. If I happen to come across an upgrade, so be it. I don't get upset when I lose it, I just pick up where I left off and move on. Heck, it's nothing to pick up a set at hero anyway.

I would step out on purpose just to fight you. I wanted so badly to figure out what to do and you kept me baffled.

I have played the side of the law once. I played an Arbiter Lord named Kantherion quite awhile ago. For me, it's about joining the side that is regularly getting the beat down, so, Tribunal probably won't be my next choice. But, you never know.

And was ready to fight you when I got the boot.

I won't fight Shamans/A-P's/Necro's/Muters with anything less than Divine of I can help it.

I interacted with you as Ahote too so I knew you from both sides.

Good character and an Imm char noone can talk #### about.

I didn't get to interact with you a whole lot and I know how much minotaurs hate the whole cow references. Too bad, I will have to put my porterhouse stuff away until the next one. Thanks for the kind words.

I just a freaking fight with you! Da*n! Now you're gone, which shaman am I going to tool now! Fine character, you manage to destroy Silo before she hit hero range. When she actually does, you were easy or you decided to be easy.

Damn you prep junky! Heh. You are one of those players that just gets it right. Well done and keep it going! Oh yeah, this just goes to show you that no matter how high of an imm you might become, if you haven't done it, you don't know it. I haven't had half the preps you use.

I am assuming you are talking about the time you got ganked down by about six tribunals heading down eastern road to the village to regain our scales. We walked into the wooded copse and Linaeren teleported right away while for some reason you decided that you could take on all of us. I took two wide coppers from your corpse. Then for the next twenty minutes all I heard was you complaining about how you lost your whole set of equipment(which I think the tribunals took a total of four pieces from your corpse). As for holding things I cannot use, I take them to give them to people who will actually put them to good use instead of returning them to people who use them against me or against what I stand for. In that case I believe I gave them to low level tribunal ap applicant that I had high hopes for, or it may have been Itennu, either way in Babou's eyes they deserve them a lot more than you did. As for your remark about me showing up when there are a lot of tribunals around, I have a job and usually get to play later at night.. which seems to be when the tribunals are in full force. I will admit that I am a conservative player when it comes to battles and that there are very few times I will go into a battle when I have a good chance of dying. As for yourself being the nightreaver I was disappointed that you were not half as scary as someone with that title should be.

Outlanders: I love this cabal. I will be back to play another some time because I really enjoy the freedom and the attitude.

Xinrithil- By far, the best Outlander I have seen since Nreisshe. I so wanted to be the Nightreaver to beat you about your head because you were always creating corpses of yourself and not your foes. Then I got to watch you and I really had a lot of respect for you. I even put a role chapter in about you.

Linaeren- Damn, we got our asses beat a lot. It’s really hard to group when you are so used to hunting alone. We probably killed each other a few times just because we were so used to doing things our own way.

Jutunn- Keep on trucking. You have only been around a short time, but, your enemies are well aware of what you are capable of doing.

Burzmah- Dude, you will probably be joining me soon. Typical Imp follower. That’s a good thing for an Outlander to be.

Godhren- Sometimes you just really pissed me off with doing stupid things. Then you would take another death for the tree and I would back off.

There are some bright spots coming up and I think they will do well. If my spelling is off, I apologize. Kugwarc, Cora and Soasinaal. You three have a chance to do some good for the tree. Kebe, where the hell did you go? The rest of you haven’t been with us long enough or I don’t remember you.

For those of you who deleted because things got rough. Bleh I say, Bleh.

I was looking forward to tension between us. I hated seeing you go down to the tribbies, that was nasty. Gutsy, though!

Glad you played the cabal you oversee, too. Cheers, mate!

Hey, you can't win a fight if you don't try! I still killed more than I died and if you knew how much I died, I guess I didn't do that badly.

A well-played evil Outlander has to be a huge challenge because your only real allies are neutral Outlanders, and so I really have to commend you for stepping up when things were rough in the Tree. Playing an orc on a bad day has to be a vacation compared to what you dealt with.

Seeing you delete is a kick in the teeth for Outlander, but I expected it to come earlier because I have seen how frustrating things are for shamen lately: for most, either they are someone's ganking dispel ##### or a rot monkey, neither of which earn respect or self-respect. Compound that with a situation where it seems like every hero shifter can detect chameleon, fly, and melee, and your shaman didn't have many viable options.

Since you brought it up, there are openings in Outlander and a need for all the support classes. If you survive my rigorous **cough** interviewing process we might even be able to find a spot for you on the sunny side of the Tree. Ha!

GLWYN.

Rot in the lower 40's is extremely powerful. But, at hero, even when it lands it is rarely, and I mean rarely, a death sentence. It took a lucky damnation to sap the con of someone for it to land a kill. Unfortunately for Akreick, I got lucky twice in a row. Teleon had a problem with it when he was younger, but, he learned how to avoid it and it hasn't killed him since. I tried really hard to not be the rot monkey, but, when you are fighting against the odds that I was fighting at, just making someone go away to deal with it was a small victory.

Actually, numbers are near double for Outlander from when I started playing Zekaris. If you guys get them young ones up into the hero range, they will be tough for awhile to come.

And you said Zekaris wasn't an imp follower, yet my jaw dropped when I saw this.

I think you are right and we did do worse together. The remainder of us are working on overcoming that, but I'd almost laugh after a fight because if I did happen to be grouped with either your or Xin, it seemed like a race between us to his "nofol player" and start doing our thing. Xin is right, its a kick in the teeth, but more from a rp angle than the mechanics of losing a shaman leader (we all get knocked around so much I don't even concern myself anymore with it). I'm not sure every imm gets to fully comprehend the abuse their cabal can take when they are in a low point for what seems like an eternity, so I have to say its nice to know your cabal imms are on the same page.

Definitely come play another mort. I hear that sunwarden guy is getting old, maybe you'd like to try that out (Cause I'm not going anywhere for a while).

Hrm...Air/Offense shifter with beast call? Interesting. I play a mortal seriously once every two years. Kazren was the last and it may be two years before you hear from another serious attempt. But, you never know.

Once when you logged on Godhren was in the middle of 2 real life hr cagefight with a dragon, and immediately told Zekaris the dragon reminded him of Zekaris. You seemed powerful, wise, evil, dangerous, with an extremely strong bite.

Zekaris was an enormous amount of fun to have around. When I was pre-hero, you didn't regard roleplay with people out of your pk range as a waste of time. You just made things a lot more enjoyable when you were around, even when we were losing. I'm going to miss such a strong ally IC'ly and, OOC'ly, it was fun to have someone around when it was otherwise just going to be me. I think you hit the RP of being evil yet working together for a greater cause perfectly.

We had a lot of fights working together, which I enjoyed, but I don't remember winning any. I guess i don't count 4 of us maledicting Pissudin and getting lucky after he got back to his altar anthing other than a win by fluke. There's something wrong with either tactics or game-balance when you, me, and Linaeren combined can't even defeat just one of our enemies, let alone the numbers we faced. If it's tactics hopefully I'll figure out in time.

As for getting you mad, I'm not sure what you're talking about. I throw in this caveat: well, Godhren wasn't there to impress the Nightreaver. He was there for the reasons of his role and for the Sunwarden. His initial desire for peace and education would be enough to get the Nightreaver hopping mad no matter how it played out.

However, if I just did 'stupid' things, I'm close enough to con death that I don't mind saying this is my first hero, 2nd caballed, and first Outlander. The difference between a newbie and an experienced player is vast, and should not be underestimated. You have expectations and intuitions about how things happen while I'm encoutering everything for the first time in real-time and just guessing. That creates a certain amount of tactical randomness from your point of view. I did really well at the early and mid levels, which I have experience with, but entering the hero range as a newbie feels like the stereotypical girl playing softball for the first time (no offense intended to girls).

If you can appreciate intentions were sincere, I'd greatly appreciate any constructive criticism from interactions between Zekaris and Godhren you'd like to make.

Well, I knew you were a newbie by some of the tactical errors and choices you made. And because of that, I didn't jump on you.

There was one recent time when Jutunn and I had just finished killing a few of our enemies only for them to come back and jump us again. You logged in an out so quick, I wanted to smack you. But, then you logged on a bit later when I wasn't playing Zekaris, and you went right after them. So, I thought it a fluke or something.

You were a prime example of trying to keep things separate between imm and player. As an imm, I could see you trying and stumbling. So, I can light a fire under your ass to help keep you focused. But, as the Nightreaver, I just had to let it go.

I think you have gotten better as time has gone on, keep trucking.

Throkk was very impressed with Zekaris. I enjoyed how much of a
hard-liner you were, without being an ass.

Seeing how rarely our playing times overlapped, I am
very pleased/grateful that I got so easy an induction.

I am a loner typer too, and I wince when I think of how I managed to
screw up whenever you or Linaeren were around. But at least I managed
to help you get Siloreelo once.

Thanks for playing. My only regret is not being able to play CF primetime,
since I seem to miss out on both the action and the quality chars.

I liked Throkk as Zekaris. I thought you were a pretty tough player who I just wanted to see as a hero. I rarely saw you, but, noticed you were consistently growing. I know how hard it is to hero an evil outlander. Heck, I think I probably spent 100 hours at rank 47.

It's always good to be a hard ass as the Nightreaver so there aren't any questions down the road. Glad it came across.

It was time for Zekaris to go away. He started to become a tool for the things I really don’t like to do. I guess that happens when you sink nearly 500 hours into a character that is always the underdog. You start looking for any kills you can get instead of earning them the way you once did. And when I start doing that, it’s time for me to go away.

Shamans:

This was my first shaman to hero. They looked really enticing, so I thought I would give it a whirl. Outlander was the underdog, so that was the choice cabal. I never jump on a bandwagon.

Up until my early forties, I would sit at certain plateaus to learn the class. Once I figured it out, I would rank. My confidence grew as my kills started happening. Then I entered the hero ranks. It wasn’t so much that I was doing the wrong things as it was that my perfected supplications with edges to aid them just didn’t land. I think I blinded a major form twice on the first try. I don’t think I blinded Pissudin once and he can verify that. I fought him more than anybody. Even after a dispel where he would lose stone skin and haste (ABS wasn't affected), nothing else would land. Every once in awhile a plague or weaken would go off, but that was rare. Shield block and parry against an unhasted tiger were for naught. I really had a rough time against shifters. Yes, I tried to drain his energy and everything else you will ask about. Heck, I even fought him with a dispel and demonfire when he was naked and he still killed me. I got him writhing, but, that was about it. I had enough fights with him to try many things. Shamans at lower levels are about landing a few supps, fleeing and healing up to come back for more. I rarely landed any supps to be able to do that. No sour grapes, it just is what it is. I would have liked to see some things for shamans that make their perfected supps land more, not be more potent.

Edges I liked: Divine Contagion, Voice of Condemnation, Inquisitor, Empowered Enfeeblement, Claim the Unfettered, Sacred Word.

Edges that I didn’t see any noticeable improvement: Sightbinder (This one pissed me off because I rarely landed blindness as a hero), Diabolical Soul.

The other edges I had are not shaman-based, so I am not going to speak about them.

Half-drow seemed like a cool thing to play. I can see why people like the giants for shamans better though.

Do shamans need a revamp? Pretty much the reason I played one. The probably need some loving. Shamans are deadly in groups. I am a lone hunter type, so the class really didn't fit my style of play. And when you see my gank-o-meter, you will see why keeping a decent set to be competitive was kind of hard.