I hate empowerment, hate druids, hate the playerbase, hate the haters, hate the people who complain about "level-sitting", hate people who complain about PK.

Love the PK intensity. Love the roleplay intensity. It's what keeps me coming back. Question is, how many people have to be douche bags before the playerbase finally says #### it and leave?

Seriously, the playerbase really soured this experience for me. I "level-sat" for maybe a week and a half before being FLOODED with tells FROM EVERYONE about me level-sitting, and to stop being a coward, level up into the hero raneg, where the REAL fights are, etc. etc. All in the game. Grow the #### up. Mind your own ####ing business. If I want to level sit, who the #### are you to tell me I'm a bitch, or a homo, or whatever the #### else you want to label me as, for "level-sitting"? I must've gotten a dozen tells from people telling me to "rank up" or whatever other faggoty flowery words you want to put on it, and they all reeked OOC. Keep complaining bitches. I ain't the first one, and I ain't the last one. And my level-sitting was never intended. I just gave up on the character and decided "well, I might as well PK a bunch to learn the druid better". Don't like it, oh well. Everyone has a reason for doing what they want to do. It's called freedom of choice. And even if the only reason is "Because I'm a ####ing ####, and don't want to enter the hero levels" then that's your own business. The playerbase needs to get off people's balls, and start putting the enthusiasm they put into flaming people and trying to make them feel like #### into their own gameplay.

As for the accusations of full-looting. I looted the #### out of Progglesnort because Lanning and Rhoth were both full looted at the Spire (Lanning twice). And this is after we ####ing returned 95% of Progglesnort's gear in the past when he died at the huntress, trying to retrieve. ####, I'm one of the most NON-LOOTING mother ####ers around, until you pull some stupid ####, and earn a full looting. I eventually said #### it. Because my golden rule is do unto other as they do unto you. If it ruined your ####ing gameplay experience, oh well, eat #### and don't full loot. I looted the #### out of Jiajliu, because I hated him. I (partially) looted the #### out of Rodalrina, because my gear was ####, and Rodalrina had good stuff, and I ####ing earned the gear, by taking on a group ranking on Kiadana by myself. I full looted the #### out Gharral, because he and his berserker bitch full looted the #### out of me. A three-on-me gang bang. I don't care if Neikulous was there or not, he worded as soon as Golanth ambushed his ass. So, it was a three-on-me (yes, Golanth aided with the snare, I don't care if it was intended for Neikulous or not, it ####ed me over, and got me full looted.) I'm not even a mage for ####s sake. So I enjoyed full looting the #### out of Gharral, and draining his constitution. So, I guess out of four people, that constitutes me as a full looting whore. Great, thanks. Since I know I'm the only mother ####er out there doing it. Grow some ####ing testicles, and suck it the #### up. People get full looted all the time. Best thing to do is get even, and return the ####ing favor. That's what I do. Yeah, maybe I have a bad track record, who gives a ####. I'm not trying to impress anyone. And the two times I've broken character (i.e. Ferrsaan and Seiichi) I was full looted by out of range faggots. Anyone would be pissed. I learned from it, and decided the only way to get back is to get even.

I wonder how many people will continue to bitch about how much of a piece of #### I am, or my past characters are, or how much of a whore Vargraye was. You know what, I don't really give a ####. I never claimed to be a ####ing saint. But I do claim not to be the biggest piece of ####ing #### that people make me out to be.

Said it once, I'll say it again: If you don't like the PK intensity I bring, then stay the #### out of the way.

Thanks for the terrific read. I've never seen a post here with that many ####'s. Great stuff.

You rolled up your next yet?

1) Your PK ability sucks. I fought you as Delga and kicked your ass. I fought you as Gronalka and kicked your ass. I straight up owned you with my current, whoes name I'm not going to mention yet. You are not as "intense" with PK as you think you are.

2) No matter what you say, all the really skilled players passed you by and really get sick of your #### talking and thinking you are soooo the man. That's why they tell you to rank up - so we can show you that you are not.

If you want to level sit, fine. I've done it myself. I've had exploding hearts on old school thieves. The point isn't the level sitting, it's the cocky attitude behind it.

If you think you are such hot #### and so "intense" put your $$$ where your mouth is and prove it. This character only proved it could pick on noobs with a huge level gap.

*snip*
I never said I was gods gift to PK. I just said that my intensity is focused on PK. I don't give two ####s if you beat me or not, or if I suck compared to most people. You win some, you lose some. It's humbling.

*snip*
If you need proof, buy the PBF.

*snip*

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I didn't really give two ####s one way or another until this post. Now I'm thinking cry me a ####ing river. You respond to all the bitching by several hundred words of bitching yourself? Gee, makes total sense. And what intensity?

"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens." - Jimi Hendrix

It's me telling the people bitching about the characters how it is, straight up. Word.

>I looted the #### out
>of Progglesnort because Lanning and Rhoth were both full
>looted at the Spire (Lanning twice).

Did you verify it was Progglesnort who grabbed all the stuff? He has cabalmates you know.

The thing I disliked most about you, being one of your supposed allies, is that you took every chance you got to blame others for your mistakes. For example, the time when you decided to sit and fight the guards on the Eastern Road instead of running or taking an alternate route, then complained that I didn't help you fight the guards (being a lot lower level against a higher level mob wouldn't have done much damage to them) and then being distracted long enough to get ganged down by a group of two or three (couldn't remember who it was). So, then you got all mad at me for your dying because I wouldn't strike the guards with you. How does this fit into character? I felt bad about you dying and picked up most of your things for you and gave them to you, no questions asked, asking in return for you to turn something to wood for me, which you refused to do based on the previously mentioned reason for your dying. What kind of neutral, druid, balanced, nature-loving roleplay is that?

So, in turn, Xalzan took every chance he could to harass you. You killed me once, I didn't complain. I killed you and you whined at me being the ONLY time I would be able to kill you was when you were link-dead. How was this something in character? This was before your supposed "character interest loss".

By all means, come back and play, but leave the massive ego behind unless its completely character driven.

nt

(n.t)

Add "wood-elf druid" to the list of combos that whip my ass.

Wooden weapons, lag other than bash or trip, the ability to tank while you're lagging him, and he's dead. That's why he's con-dead at 253 hours. Once I had savage blow, I didn't worry about being killed by him, but I only got to fight him once after I had it. Didn't kill him, but didn't worry about the damage either. In my opinion, he was a nuissance, not an unbeatable level-sitting force.

I honestly fail to understand why people hated this guy so much.

Well, obviously he was created to level sit and abuse the hunt. But it is his right to do so. Why in hell do you like to whine so much when someone's game style is different from yours? The game is all about fun, and if he has fun without doing anything illegal and breaking RP line, I say let him.

From my PoV he was pretty solid PKiller and a good cabal member. Always pleasant to have online. Always helpful to cabal mates.

I can't say he was ideal, but come on. Who of us is?
Yes, I think he was a bit too murderous, striking people whenever he had an excuse to do so. But again, it is pretty natural for someone who is playing for PK only.
Yes, sometimes he was getting bitter and full looting people. But I mostly saw it after him being full looted by a gang. Can I blame him for it? Hardly.

I would not enjoy level sitting, for example, and I hardly ever loot at all. So we are very different. But why in hell should I tell someone how to play?

As for other things.

I must thank him for showing me some re-gearing pieces that I didn't know about. Thanks a lot.
I want to say that I was immensly surprised to see him con-die. I don't quite understand how he managed to.
I want to ask what the hell was going on with his levels. I mean he was 51st at one point, and then another day he was 41 again...

And yeah, have fun with the next!

Same deal as with rot.

I don't think this is necessary. I don't have any special love for the hunt or anything, but let's look at some other 'cheap' skills. Assassinate, at 35. There's some complaining about it from time to time, but nothing excessive, should we bump it to 45 because some assassin levelsits at 35 to spam it? Or nightgaunt, easily as deadly, if not moreso, as the hunt. In the hands of a skilled evil conjie, half the classes in the game are toast. And you're not limited to full moon and wilderness either.

This should be about levelsitting, and how to deal with it, not some skill that just happens to be one level before hero range. Personally, I think Vargs patron imm should have 'encouraged' Varg to level up by means of a custom title or removal of empowerment. It doesn't really matter if Varg only got kills on somewhat inexperienced players, only to die to the more experienced ones, because that's just silly towards the newer players.

And to Necro something, uh, I paraphrase 'levelsitters are good for the game because they keep newbies away from hero range'? What are you smoking? Personally I'd rather have said newbie at hero, possibly picking up a few things from his possible cabal mates, and not worrying about xp pen or something so he/she can explore, than playing his lowbie alt and getting someone else a mob death or something else.

I'm sure people will bitch, but I think you have the right attitude about it. I thought sometimes you were a little too randomly murderous but in general I didn't have a problem with the level sitting - that's what we have distention for, eh?

Hope you enjoyed the religion and that sort of stuff, feel free to give me suggestions on how to make it better or whatever.

Good luck on your next.

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=31&topic_id=6085&mesg_id=6093&page=

Why is it ok for some chars to level sit and not others without getting shafted in titles and stuff?

The staff don't always agree on everything. Also, trends and attitudes change. You are looking at comments from '04 and the mud and many imm attitudes were different back then. Rayihn isn't my favorite immortal but the fact is she IS still an imm and does still see things mortals don't. From what her past empowerees have said, she's a good imm to be empowered by, and watches frequently.

I haven't always agreed with everything an empowering or overseeing type of imm had to say about their followers. I've seen glowing things written in PBF's by imms about people who I thought were utter rubbish. What it boils down to is, they see more than we do. They're still not watching 24/7 and I'm sure there's some stuff they miss. They can only go by what they see for themselves.

I'm not above taking pot shots at imms if I think it's deserved, but in this instance you can't throw in Rayihn's face comments from other staffers from 3 years ago.

Considering I got titled for level sitting at a level where I was disadvantaged (sat at 36 drow ap -- titled at level 42 iirc).

Magus is a cock, but I would hate to see his PBF run off on any more tangents.

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=4&topic_id=22126&mesg_id=22146&page=


On of the most respected (if reviled, I dont think there are many people who don't *respect* Valg) Imms, and possibly the most respected mort-player, Daurwyn. Also note he was playing a combo that is traditionally thought of as weak. Drow AP, rather than an (at least by people who know what they are talking about) power combo.

Whats the deal?

Well, if a character is empowered it's an unspoken (and occasionally loudly spoke of) rule that you don't #### with another person's empowerees. We all respect that rule. With that, as everyone has a different idea of how the game should be played and what makes up a good character, you get some inconsistencies. I had a talk with Vargraye about choosing inappropriate targets. It was between he and I, and I suppose his PBF. No, I don't think he deserved a belittling title or something like that. If he ignored me, I would have stripped off his tat, title and empowerment until he got the picture. Frankly, I didn't have a huge problem with most of what he did. The full looting sucks, sure, but I didn't hound him or follow him around to make notes on doing it, and I don't think it's something we should punish people for. The system is there, you're either a gentleman about it or you're not. The times I watched him I didn't notice him being a ####head.

I guess, after this semi rant, I should ask what you wanted me to do. Do you think I should have given him a nasty title? Unempowered him to 39 so he couldn't call the hunt anymore? What I do know is that I'm not Valg and I didn't have anything to do with either character referenced.

I didn't mean my post as a big middle finger or anything. As per suggestions of what to do, I'm not an Imm don't understand the guidelines very well, etc. If Nep thought he was kosher, he probably was, and since you guys communicate lots I figure it was discussed. Sorry if I offended.

I was more sticking up for Daurwyn than anythings, cause he is a class act, and that title Sossaphrin got is the one blemish in his CFing afaik.

-Larcat

I don't think I would have placed a negative title in that case just because I feel so sorry for d-elf A-P.

My general feeling (and I want to say I talked about this on Vargraye's PBF, but maybe I meant to and never did) is that there's nothing wrong with level-sitting in a rules sense. I also don't generally think there's a problem with it in a gameplay sense. That being said, like just about any other option in the game, there are possibly RP/IC consequences, often cabal-based.

For example, take an archetypal Empire Daevryn-following character. Let's say he's promised me he's going to be War Master. By remaining a certain level, he may be disqualifying himself from getting promotions which will get him there. He's passing up chances to take on greater challenges and hobnob with the 'Elite' of the Empire and get there. Wearing my rules guy hat, I wouldn't ever do anything to that guy. Wearing my Daevryn-as-your-god hat, I'd probably light a fire under that guy one way or another if he level sat long enough because he's not doing what he needs to be doing.

Does that make any sense?

Point taken. Har.

At some point, the discussion around a thing becomes bigger than the thing itself. It "becomes political", if you will.

Take this situation for example. I mean, look at the level of freak-out and hate Vargraye generated from some people. It's just drama beyond all sanity or proportion to anything he did.

I think one of the greatest things about CF as a game is that with few exceptions, there are good options available to you in-character to avenge yourself against those who have wronged you. It's a world where the resourceful rule, and if you're not able to extract that vengeance, maybe you don't really deserve it.

If Vargraye is parked at 41 on your way to hero and kills you, and doesn't hero in the lifetime of that character for you to "get revenge" that way, and then you go start another character and he smokes you again on your next way up to hero, and you bitch and complain and throw a bizarre hissy fit anytime he posts on the forums, etc., and then Valg or whoever does something to smack him down, what message are we sending? I'm afraid it's that if you bitch loud enough and cry long enough, you'll get your way, whether you're actually right or not.

I want to believe that's not the game y'all want to play.

I wasn't trying to come down on you for posting it - I was genuinely curious what you guys wanted me to do. Sorry if it sounded like that, I'm just confused! I liked Vargraye. I wish he would post some real goodbyes.

It's not the level sitting, its the point he chose to level sit at while absolutely abusing his just gained powers and full looting everything that died infront of him. It's just bad mojo. Look at it how you want but its bad mojo

>It's not the level sitting, its the point he chose to level
>sit at while absolutely abusing his just gained powers and
>full looting everything that died infront of him. It's just
>bad mojo. Look at it how you want but its bad mojo

1) There's been level sitting as long as there's been a CF, and it's a fair bet that before there was a CF, people who would later level sit on CF were also level sitting on other MUDs.

In the dawn of CF there was also 5000x more level sitting than in present day CF, and I'm not convinced this was a worse state of affairs. Levelling a character with the threat of PK is interesting. Levelling a character without the threat of PK is just grind.

I remember starting CF and having to pass through the range of dozens of carefully engineered characters who never meant to level again and would spend damn near 100% of their logon time hunting. Beating those guys felt like an accomplishment. Managing to score a couple levels while they were prowling felt like an accomplishment. You constantly had to be ready for action while you were levelling.

I'm not saying go all the way back to that, because man was the RP weak on a lot of those characters, but ####, what a great time to be playing the game in terms of action. It seriously saddens the hell out of me that so many players that I thought were really capable of bringing an A game to the table would rather complain about a character like this and plead with the staff to do something about a character like this than man up and just try to outplay him.


2) Of course you'd level sit at a level that seems advantageous for you. When else would you level sit? This complaint is well within the "I think my enemies should be dumb and just let me kill them" category.

(The tricky part is that advantageous is really a function of what the rest of the players are doing. I saw a level 50 low XP penalty guy house the #### out of Vargraye this afternoon. 41 moderate XP penalty doesn't look so good in that matchup. But it's sooo much easier to complain than to be that guy taking him to the cleaners.)

3) I saw a fair number of Vargraye's fights and while I did see him loot the #### out of a couple people for reasons I couldn't fathom, this was the exception more than the rule. Maybe you just had great gear?

The guy wasn't a saint, but he's not half the #### people make him out to be, either.

I'm not saying go all the way back to that, because man was the RP weak on a lot of those characters, but ####, what a great time to be playing the game in terms of action. It seriously saddens the hell out of me that so many players that I thought were really capable of bringing an A game to the table would rather complain about a character like this and plead with the staff to do something about a character like this than man up and just try to outplay him.




Yeah, but I personally never had the opertunity to play with him cause he wouldn't enter hero range. This being said I also watched him (as a lowbie) utterly full loot a hero with the most garbage regear set I have ever seen that he must have been a noob, I saved about three pieces of gear and returnd it. Now I am not saying I am a better person for saving said persons gear, but when someone gets all corpse, runs to drop it off somewhere, comes back to get more #### gear with another get all corpse, runs to drop That off and returns for a last run of get all #### gear corpse and then runs off... well, that personally leaves a bitter taste in my mouth and I hope it doesn't discourage this what I think is a new player to the mud. Aside from the whole being scared to enter hero range and full looting garbage from people that look to be just trying to have fun, well.. I have no other problems with this specific character. But I don't think these are actions anyone should glorify.

>but when someone gets all corpse, runs to drop
>it off somewhere, comes back to get more #### gear with
>another get all corpse, runs to drop That off and returns for
>a last run of get all #### gear corpse and then runs off...

Yeah, without knowing the circumstances, something like that isn't great.

>But I don't think these are actions
>anyone should glorify.

I don't think anyone's glorifying massive spite looting. Personally I didn't see it from this character, and on the occasions I did see something that seemed over the top to me... ah, but there I'd be spoiling the PBF.

For all of the rest of it, I'm not exactly glorifying level-sitting either -- but neither am I condemning it. If it's fun to PK and RP and raid and do other stuff at 51 indefinitely, why can't that be equally true of 41? I mean, it's not like Vargraye was running 100-0 in PKs at 41. He killed a bunch, but he died a bunch too, although he did kill more than he died. It's a fair bet that at 51 he also would have done something similar.

I mean, hell. Maybe with the way the game's balance sits today The Hunt is too good at 41 and it either needs to be made higher level or get to be less good, either in general or specifically at those lower levels. It's not like Valg and I haven't had that conversation and pondered that a time or twelve over the years. But, that also doesn't mean there's something inherently wrong or underhanded with a player seeing an angle wherein they think they can get a tough character going and taking their best shot at it. In a sense, that's exactly what the PK side of the game is about.

The thing with The Hunt is...how many super-badass "Hunt" druids do we really have? If the hunt, and assassinate, and "sleep-trigger" necros, "deathblow-only" villagers, and the few other "I-win-button" skills we have in the game are SOOO badass? Why are there not ten of each of those running around in the game all the time? For each of those characters that do very well with said character, there are ten, twenty, thirty, forty even, that just flat out die all the time, and sometimes get a lucky kill. The way I see it, spend your time figuring out how to beat that character, and quit spending it whining about how "un-fair" a text based game is.

So I'm not whining. Although that said, I had entwine which is a druid's biggest danger.

However, I did post that I considered druids too powerful when I deleted my last one.

Personally I do think the hunt is too strong offensively. If it didn't pour out so much damage and just tracked fast and prevented magical transport, I'd consider that more balanced.

Well said. I've always been a *firm* believer that the ride to hero should not be an easy one. There is nothing worse than have a level 51 cabal mate who doesn't know how to get to Hamsah. And that is where the level sitting PKer comes in. The newb will con-die or delete before making it to hero. CF would be gay without some sort of challenge in hero'ing. Honestly, people complaining about a woof-elf PKer? Seriously? Hahahahahahahahah. Olnev (the first level sitting druid PKer) was at least a half elf. Kudos to the level sitter for making heroing actually mean something other than killing 5000 random mobs. If you died to Vargraye then just suck it up and appreciate the competition that CF gives you. I am not sure of numbers, but it's not like Vargraye was that much of a PKer anyway otherwise distention would have kicked in (I've had a level 28 assassin in a level 51 human paladin range - noone complained about him, I deleted after one wrath killed him outright). Also feel fortunate that someone like Cabdru didn't sit there for too long. The CF community sure likes to bitch - it was a fricking wood-elf remember?! Hahahahahaha.

Man, I level sit necro's all the time and I believe I am doing CF a service. I frickin' *hate* newb hero's. It *has* to mean something.

Don't know if Vargraye did it or not, but we are all just players playing CF. Respect needs to be shown. Kill someone, fine. Full loot? Nah.

nt

How anyone can imply wood-elf is not damn strong for a druid I don't know. At all levels they are strong.

>1) There's been level sitting as long as there's been a CF,
>and it's a fair bet that before there was a CF, people who
>would later level sit on CF were also level sitting on other
>MUDs.

There've been assholes since the dawn of time too...but they're still assholes.