First of all... I think I've been in all the sects of the Empire. And I like Shadow RP most. It gives you fare more freedom to do nasty wicked things then any other sect.

Nievar as char had some fun moments. It also had a lot of up and downs. At the end my interest waned and it became a chore to login. So I decided to let him go. I was an elite imperial warlock under Gulthrack rule as Dreadlord... And hated it.

Well several insights into the life of Imperial thief:

-As a binder thief...
It was fun to mess people up. But eventually people caught up with my tactics.

So they started travel mostly in groups. And you know what? It makes binder thief practically useless.
First you face a challenge of blackjacking multiple people without them waking each other. If you fail you face pinceres/bashes/etc from whole gang. Even if you succeed... by the time you knocked out the last one first one is ready to wake up and wake others. No time for bindings.

And on these rare occasions when you catch somebody alone...
In two rounds between blackjack and gag victim radios over cb 'Jacked at so&so.' And within tick or two you see whole Village/Fortress arrive at your location. If they can harm you and you by chance busy with bindings (lagged and out of shadows) you get butchered in a moment. If they cant harm you - they will unbind your victim and keep unbinding him/her if you try to bind again.
Side note one: Vast majority of people who pass by usually return and start unbinding too. The rest of people will return and wait for the loot.
Side note two: Shadowdrag (considering it is very last skill binders learn) would be much more useful if you could use it on just blackjacked people. It is next to useless as it is now.

-As an Imperial...
I loved the powers, I loved the RP, I loved the politics.
I HATED cabal wars. They are so one sided.

To dismiss a popular myth...
My previous char was a Maran. And let me tell you:
Imperials gang far less and ARE ganged far more when Fortress/Village.

Add to this Empire-hate factor...
At one time when three Marans (mage/bard/paladin) were raiding the village. I stepped out of the Palace and I saw... an Anathema one step out of palace, a villager coming to help Marans raid and Outlander waiting in ambush trying to catch any Imperial who would try to flee.
So I thought these parties gotta collide somehow.
But no... They ignored each other completely.
Marans finished raiding and departed... passing anathema I blackjacked for them. Villager did not find an Emperor so he departed too.

Whole notion of 'I hate Empire. So any Empire enemy is MY BEST FRIEND !' makes Cabal war a joke.
Outlanders/Villagers/Marans DO work together, come to each other cabal to help kill Imperials who try to retrieve and supply each other with information. Choosing to ignore other enemies of cabal (Outlanders->dwarves&paladins, Village->magi, Marans->none imperial evils) in hope of nailing any Imperials.


Several pesonal notes:

Iramath - You ganged me more when anybody else. You hardly needed it.
These heartseeker daggers are OVERPOWERED. I can basically wipe the floor Sunwarden (elf dagger spec). You could kill me in two-three rounds.

Jezerael/Llydia - Annoying healers. Storm_healer has arrived through the gate... To save my victim yet again.
Lucky for me you were not very experienced. I have killed you both solo couple times. Quite an accomplishment for a thief.

Nabburak - I nicknamed you Anabburak (spider hero from Warcraft3). I supplied you with some sweet items and quite a few charges for your axe. But ganging gets just as boring as getting gang-raped repeately. You are on your own now.

Ghelgoaun - Who is this guy?!? I NEVER EVER EVER saw you in my life.
One day you login, go to Fortress right away, snare and gang me with Marans, and logout never to be seen again.

I probably forgot bunch of people. Memory is fuzzy now. Post your comments and I will reply.

Gone for good,

-N-

I think I killed you 3 times, total. If I am mistaken, please post the logs to prove me wrong (I only have one of your deaths logged, I think).


I just really don't know what you expect when I am with others and you step out of the shadows. If you do that, you're going to die. That's just a fact.


Furthermore, I really have no pity for you. I know it sounds cold, but man...from the FIRST time I killed you, you totally broke role and gave me an all caps tell along the lines of "HOW LAME MAN OH MY GOD". Similar stuff happened each and every time. All of your tells to me were, in some way, whiney. You seemed obsessed with the notion that you were wronged by me and everyone else in the Fortress since the time we nailed you with the help of that ranger.


Please, stop bringing up the daggers. They went off on you in one fight, and even if they had gone off twice in a row, doing somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 to 400 damage, that means I still would have had to do 400 to 500 damage in those two or three rounds to kill you. It might have made a difference if they didn't ding you, but chances are that if I had you in the open I was tripping or bashing the hell out of you and you weren't going anywhere.


The last thing I want to say is this: Please, put yourself in the shoes of the people who have to worry about an imperial thief, who at almost any given time has a shaman, anti-paladin, a warrior or two, a host of neutral lackies, and a very, VERY helpful handful of tribunals. Do you really think anyone is going to take a thief lightly under those circumstances? If you are, you're kidding yourself. The power of 'blackjack' can be devastating; and that's before even getting into binder skills.

>I think I killed you 3 times, total. If I am mistaken, please
>post the logs to prove me wrong (I only have one of your
>deaths logged, I think).

I died to you three times in raid situations. Which I never said a word about.
Sometimes even did 'tip' or 'bow'.

But I can count at least four situations where I was alone and in which you ganged me with all available Fortress members. And where I was not exactly coming to get you. More of the opposite.

These situations pissed me to no end. So I would say something like 'This is only what you are good for!' or 'Just as lame (as previous one)'. This was IC.



>I just really don't know what you expect when I am with others
>and you step out of the shadows. If you do that, you're going
>to die. That's just a fact.

I realize I would be always targeted first.
My point is... When I am NOT in shadows and you are NOT with others - you would not fight me.


>from the FIRST time I killed you
Ok first time... You ganged me with several marans and this ghost ranger who snared me (hope no cheating was involved).

I tried to talk to you about not relying on outside help to kill your enemies. All IC.
In my view you what you did was like villager asking mage to fog thief so villager could bash him to the ground.
You gave me "I take opportunity when it presents itself"... Which is a valid point. And bunch of 'You should shut up, whinny fool'.

After first time when you ganged me I would sent you a one line message showing what I think of you and your cheap tactics.

>"HOW LAME MAN OH MY GOD".
No way I would mention 'God'. Nievar was faithless (Sorry Khaso).
I recall saying "Just as lame!". Which that I thought IC and OOC.

>Please, stop bringing up the daggers.

Here is small snipped:

Iramath's wrath EVISCERATES Nabburak!
Iramath lunges with inhuman speed and stabs Nabburak in the chest!
Iramath's lightning-quick strike *** DEMOLISHES *** Nabburak!
Iramath pulls away from your line of sight, avoiding your attack.
As Iramath maneuvers, you lose sight of him briefly. As you turn to face him, he is already upon you with a vicious strike!
Iramath's wrath MASSACRES you!
Iramath's wrath MUTILATES Brutgelyth!
The axe glows blue as a savage look can be seen in Brutgelyth's eyes, as a low growl can be heard.
Iramath's wrath MUTILATES Nabburak!

This is through protection/aura/shield on Nabburak I am sure.

Heartseeker prog/swiftstrike/flow of shadows/concealed made you pretty mean.

In one fight I was hasted/accelerated/protection from good.
And you cut through 500hp in two rounds.

And you telling me ganging is necessary to get me.

It might have made a difference if
>they didn't ding you, but chances are that if I had you in the
>open I was tripping or bashing the hell out of you and you
>weren't going anywhere.

Usually point of the gang is to lag victim to death so he would not escape.

> Do you really think
>anyone is going to take a thief lightly under those
>circumstances? If you are, you're kidding yourself. The power
>of 'blackjack' can be devastating and that's before
>even getting into binder skills.

So you basically saying you would not fight me alone because you were afraid to get ganged?!?

>I died to you three times in raid situations. Which I never
>said a word about.
>Sometimes even did 'tip' or 'bow'.


Well I sure don't remember you ever being gracious about dying, but hey, maybe I missed it.


>But I can count at least four situations where I was alone and
>in which you ganged me with all available Fortress members.
>And where I was not exactly coming to get you. More of the
>opposite.


Uh, as a thief you have the power to stay hidden. What are you doing visible in that situation? If that happens and the group I'm in all sees you...well...we're going for you. It's simple.
Sure, it sucks for you, but like Sydrian said, you made bad decisions that got you killed.


>These situations pissed me to no end. So I would say something
>like 'This is only what you are good for!' or 'Just as lame
> as previous one)'. This was IC.


I really don't see how any of that stuff fit into the imperial thief archetype. Hey, maybe you were just trying a new approach.


>I realize I would be always targeted first.
>My point is... When I am NOT in shadows and you are NOT with
>others - you would not fight me.


You tried to push this notion before, and I'll say again, that's a bunch of crap. Being "alone", to you, must mean just not quite in the same area as the rest of the imperial gang. Just in case this is somehow slipping your mind, let me breakdown what an imperial thief does...what MOST thieves do...


blackjack iramath

You hit Iramath over the head with a blackjack. Ouch.

Imperial healer has arrived through a gate.

Imperial healer says 'My gank-o-dar went off. Are we ready?'

You say 'Almost.'

Nievar: Iramath is knocked out in the weald.

Skolgrar: Be right there.

Nabburak: On the way.

Uoukueal: Oh god thank you!

(By the way, that's all meant to be taken as a joke. You guys were all cool. I am just trying to prove a point.)


I'm not stupid, man. If there are a bunch of imperials on and I'm the lone elf (this happened plenty of times), I'm going to fight in a way that is tactically sound. That means that when I get a chance to kill an imperial thief, such as yourself, I am going to use the element of suprise. Running at a vis thief usually means you're running at a blackjack-spamming thief. I guess if none of that really gets to you, go ahead and keeping talking smack.


>Ok first time... You ganged me with several marans and this
>ghost ranger who snared me (hope no cheating was involved).


Why the hell would cheating be involved? That guy liked to sit around the Fortress and pick off imperials. He was very welcome to do so when you guys were coming at us in gangs comprised of neutrals (scions fit in here as well). I was ecstatic that we finally had a neutral who would help us rather than you guys. It's a pretty damned rare thing in this game. You got snared. You got suprised. You died. It happens to us all, man.


>I tried to talk to you about not relying on outside help to
>kill your enemies. All IC.
>In my view you what you did was like villager asking mage to
>fog thief so villager could bash him to the ground.
>You gave me "I take opportunity when it presents itself"...
>Which is a valid point. And bunch of 'You should shut up,
>whinny fool'.


If you want to call that "talking," then I guess our definitions of it are a bit different. I call it a borderline ooc bitch-out session. Admitedly, you toned it down a *little* bit after the first time, but it was still really...eh, you know. All I think I ever said back to you was "Don't you have any dignity?"


>After first time when you ganged me I would sent you a one
>line message showing what I think of you and your cheap
>tactics.


And the line was: "HOW LAME WAS THAT", or something very close. I do remember it was cap-locked though.

>Here is small snipped:
>
>Iramath's wrath EVISCERATES Nabburak!
>Iramath lunges with inhuman speed and stabs Nabburak in the
>chest!
>Iramath's lightning-quick strike *** DEMOLISHES *** Nabburak!
>Iramath pulls away from your line of sight, avoiding your
>attack.
>As Iramath maneuvers, you lose sight of him briefly. As you
>turn to face him, he is already upon you with a vicious
>strike!
>Iramath's wrath MASSACRES you!
>Iramath's wrath MUTILATES Brutgelyth!
>The axe glows blue as a savage look can be seen in
>Brutgelyth's eyes, as a low growl can be heard.
>Iramath's wrath MUTILATES Nabburak!
>
>This is through protection/aura/shield on Nabburak I am sure.


Uh, really, what the hell is so terrible about that? Try spike-toed boots.


>In one fight I was hasted/accelerated/protection from good.
>And you cut through 500hp in two rounds.


Haste and accleration aren't going to reduce damage. A thief shouldn't be trying to go head-to-head with a well-armed warrior, especially at hero.


>And you telling me ganging is necessary to get me.


Whoa. When the hell did I ever say that? Don't put words in my mouth.


>Usually point of the gang is to lag victim to death so he
>would not escape.


I'd say it's to have a better assurance of victory. You seem to think ganging is something that was not a part of my character. Most times I'd like one-on-one fights, yes, but I'm not going to cry about ganging down a thief who doesn't know when to hide.


>So you basically saying you would not fight me alone because
>you were afraid to get ganged?!?


No, as I said above in that little example log, in those circumstances I would fight wisely, by catching you off-guard. This might mean having a lowbie scout your position and then I dart at you real quick and take you down, or if I walk into an area and catch a glimpse of you, and then stand outside of the exit and wait for you to come. There are a lot of "smart" ways to fight, but running straight into a blackjack when the gank-squad is roaming around is dumb, and you know it. Don't expect people to be dumb.


I doubt this will help anything, but I'm really tired of being bashed down on various forums by you, so please give it a rest.

If the thief is vis and spamming, you can dash, remember. If he is planning on coming to you, he's unlikely to vis first.

>>I died to you three times in raid situations. Which I never
>>said a word about.
> Being "alone", to you, must mean just
>not quite in the same area as the rest of the imperial gang.

Sometimes I was alone AS lone Imperial with Fortress dominated hero range.

Simply put I dont EVER recall fighting you 1-vs-1.
It was always eather you ganking me with numbers or it was raid/defense situation. Which usually was the same.


>Running at a vis thief
>usually means you're running at a blackjack-spamming thief.

You are paranoid.
Do you realize if you see me vis it means I am doing something
which made me step out of shadows. Like walking in forest or something.

>Why the hell would cheating be involved? That guy liked to sit
>around the Fortress and pick off imperials.

This guy... I only saw him once in my life (When he ganked me with you guys).
I just hoped it was not - irc/aim/etc person: Login your ranger, help us get Nievar.
It just smelled fishy to me. This was not aimed at you personally.


>He was very
>welcome to do so when you guys were coming at us in gangs
>comprised of neutrals

I dont recall such thing happening.
Only situation I could imagine when you (Fortress) take Codex and young Imperial would ask his whole group for quick reraid then they go back to learning.

> You got snared. You got suprised. You died. It happens
>to us all, man.

Apparently not to you.

>Uh, really, what the hell is so terrible about that? Try
>spike-toed boots.

Eh? You are trying to compare spike-toed boots with 2 heartseeker daggers?!?


>A thief
>shouldn't be trying to go head-to-head with a well-armed
>warrior, especially at hero.

This is probably why there are so a few thieves in hero range. Cause they cant do f*ck on thier own.

What do you suggest? To be blackjack/call_for_gang bitch?
Plus it was raid/defense situation.
Which you never did alone eather. Even if it would bs 1-vs-1.
Props to Ahelun for showing some courage.


>No, as I said above in that little example log, in those
>circumstances I would fight wisely

Which translates for you into:
1) ganking me at any opportunity
2) not taking chances with me around

>I doubt this will help anything, but I'm really tired of being
>bashed down on various forums by you, so please give it a
>rest.

Your inability to admit anything you dont agree with... makes it all waste of time. I just realised it.

You are perfect killing machine and I am just whinny bitch who sux at CF. Happy now?

nt

You are paranoid.
Do you realize if you see me vis it means I am doing something
which made me step out of shadows. Like walking in forest or something.

This comment reminds me of the common Tribunal belief that all forests are swarmed with scores of Outlanders and thus are too dangerous to enter.

>>Iramath - You ganged me more when anybody else. You hardly needed it.
These heartseeker daggers are OVERPOWERED. I can basically wipe the floor Sunwarden (elf dagger spec). You could kill me in two-three rounds.<<


Iramath = knows what he's doing in a pk fight
Sunwarden = Learning as she goes.

Wiping the floor with Cari isn't that hard. Iramath was tough though. I don't think this really has to do with overpoweredness, but sore-loseredness.

Other than that, Nievar was frustrating more than anything else. Good luck with next.

As far as thieving goes man.

When you blackjack somebody and they have a raiding party next to them, its generally not a good idea to step out of the shadows and try to gag them. I mean, its one thing when the people are in the area, thats cool, give it a shot. NOT WHEN THEY ARE IN THE SAME ROOM AS YOU. Thats just plain dumb. No player worth his weight in salt is going to let you get away with something like that.

Once you make a move like that and you are being destroyed by an enemy cabal inside your own cabal, you should sit back and realize its your own fault. I think you fought well, but I also think you thought a lot of folks were going to be pushovers and they weren't.

As far as the info sharing goes on the good guy side, I think many of the evil villagers and outlanders can attest that they are hassled just as much as you are. Evil uncaballed and your precious anathema are as well. I think empire is even set up to be the biggest cabal in the game in order to counter the number of enemies they have. The problem you guys had this go around was that you had little to no coordination on your side and you were made to pay for it.

You bitch and moan about gang banging but in truth, you're the first one in line to do just that. Also, I think history can show that the maran and villagers gang far less than the Empire. You do realize that being a thief? You should have absolutely no problems with gang bangs unless you put yourself in that position to begin with. Sorry bro, but I think your perceptions of whats real and whats not are a little skewed by your bruised ego in the entire matter.

Sorry it was so rough for you bro, I really do hope you find your way back to Carrion Fields. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Sydrian

with this bit...

"Also, I think history can show that the maran and villagers gang far less than the Empire. You do realize that being a thief? You should have absolutely no problems with gang bangs unless you put yourself in that position to begin with."

The chars I played before and after my imperial thief were both enemies of the Empire, and I never got ganged the way I did when in the Empire. And it was by the combined forces of magi-inclusive fortress groups and village thieves to get me out of the shadows for the mage group to kill. Now, ic, there's a reasonable justification, I suppose, in that the villager knows he can't kill the fortress mage but he can cause the death of the imperial thief, so he takes that option. None-the-less, they very often worked together, and the time that both village and fortress happened to raid when they already had the codex just took the biscuit. I had not been in the palace until I came to defend (out of rp), so why would the village and fortress both be there, not bothering each other, if not working together?

Now, I'm not saying that fortress always gang more than empire, because I'm pretty sure they don't. However, the history of a cabal only has a limited bearing on its current activities, in that the cabal has historically attracted one kind of player more than others. That said, when those others come to be in the cabal, the cabal's history will more closely reflect the history of the players that just joined it than the history of the cabal. I think ganging is down to which cabal ganging players tend to be in and which cabal has the opportunity to gang. Some chars will not go out of their way to gang, (a few even go out of their way never to gang) and others will. Fortress has recently been through a period with a number of players that don't mind ganging regularly and have had opportunity, and I say that with my most recent char a fortress ally, who has aided them in raids and defenses. Empire has probably had those gang-inclined players when Empire was the cabal doing the ganging, and same with tribunal, and outlander etc.

But

>When you blackjack somebody and they have a raiding party next
>to them

When your enemies (not just in raid situations) only travel in tight packs - all you can do just watch or try something risky.

>its generally not a good idea to step out of the
>shadows and try to gag them.

I believe you are refering to this one time when you were hitting Empire inner guards and Jezerael was standing outside of Palace.
So I gave it a shot and blackjacked/gaged him. You pulled of quickly and I got bashed/pincered/looted. Learned not to bother.


> NOT WHEN THEY ARE IN THE SAME ROOM AS YOU.

???
Bindings only work when victim is alone. Overwise you are only wasting your time.

>Once you make a move like that and you are being destroyed by
>an enemy cabal inside your own cabal, you should sit back and
>realize its your own fault.

Even discouting defense/raid situations (which is ok) I've been ganged many times.

> I think empire is even set up
>to be the biggest cabal in the game in order to counter the
>number of enemies they have.

Empire is not set up to fight against all it's enemies united together.

> Also, I think history can show that the maran and villagers gang far less than the Empire.

You are wrong here. Play Imperial to see it with your own eyes.

> Sorry bro, but I think your
>perceptions of whats real and whats not are a little skewed by
>your bruised ego in the entire matter.

Perhaps. Fact is... I got tired of ganging. I got tired of getting ganged. I got tired of not being able to do anything due 'excelent' in and between-cabal communication.


>Sorry it was so rough for you bro, I really do hope you find
>your way back to Carrion Fields. Good luck with whatever you
>decide to do.

I am not gone as player. But I think I am taking a little break from caballed life.

Had a good time with you when we both were young. From the first time I told to myself - "quite a capable and ambitious thief we see here".
Heh, I want to hear a story how that happened, that you voted for Nabburak as well, I was damn sure you or Vinson would become Emperor, had bets both on you and him That politics chapter of our live made me smile many times. Hope you wont lose the taste of a game.
Good luck with the next.

Dude I loved fighting this guy. You made raids so much fun. I'll never forget the one time there were like three of us, you were still out of most of the hero's range except mine. You kept jacking me and doing the whole blindfold/gagging thing. Pretty funny when you consider I was in a crocodile form. I kept getting this whole bondage with a crocodile scene runnin through my head. I was nearly in tears laughing so hard, I could barely see the screen. And then all I saw on the screen, cause I was blindfolded, was
Someone steps out of the shadows.
Someone bows deeply.
Someone says, 'Thank you. Thank you.'
I nearly fell out of the chair. You made the game more fun when you were around. Ya got me with some of your friends once or twice. I got you with some of my friends once or twice. You made a good shadowlord. With loosing you and the warmaster in quick succession like that it's going to put a bump in empire's road to recovery. Too bad. Things were just getting fun. Take care man.

I liked your wickedness. Why'd you delete?