play a neutral character next time you wana do shady stuff. Neutral or evil, goodies are too limited for that especially for a thief. As an elf you got slapped with the neutral stick for dealing with evils. That way you can do pretty much whatever you want and not be condemned for it.

IMHO, i dont think this is fair however, given you were a thief. Its evil to steal periord, which is by deffinition, taking things from others that dont belong to you. I think goodies shouldnt be allowed as thieves, just like you dont allow svirf paladins, or cloud shamans. Thieving has to come with rather loose morals which obviously are not accepted by imms as fitting for a goodie thief...a contradiction in terms. Shady deals i think are acceptable for a thief, its in their nature.

However, i dont know what you did exactly to get the align change, guessing it was a bit more than shady dealing.

Is stealing from the Empire evil?

Is stealing from Scions evil?

Is taking some powerful evil item from a lich evil?

If that is the case, then looting as a goodie is an evil act! I guess there are not more goodies under your system.

but he wasnt exactly good either.

Stealing while the person needs it i think it might be evil.

If you are killing evils as a way to destroy the tain of Thera etc, then taking #### from their corpse isnt evil, they are dead, they dont need it anymore.

Stealing from evils or killing evils doesnt make you good. Being a true goodie is very hard. Being evil is easy.

Thieving has to come with rather loose morals which obviously are not accepted by imms as fitting for a goodie thief

That's not what anyone is saying. Actually, there were two really solid Maran thieves that I remember as standouts. Pushing the bad men down and taking their stuff so they can't harm others is fine by me.

However, the boundaries of 'good' don't extend to cuddling up with Scions and the Imperial Council (giving them valuables, etc.) in order to try to save your own hide.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I agree with the latter statement, but only partially. To save your own hide as a thief you would have to do what it took. The thing is however, for a thief, being greedy and what not is acceptable, unless your sphere dictated otherwise. For a paladin to do that is not acceptable.

Also, from a goodie point of view, the life of a lightwalker is more important than any item, material thing. Going by that argument, you could say that he did the right thing.

Its like in war. Its acceptable for archers to flee from combat and save their hide if they can, but its not acceptable for noble troops such as royal knights, bodyguards etc, who have pledged their service and life to their lord. Thieves a different kind of animal, be they good or evil, they can never be really good. They hover in the almost good/neutral/evil zone. When you have pledged your service and life to defending the light, Fortress/Maran then go and die for your cause.

I can see a role-play avenue for a good-aligned thief to steal even from other goodies, on occasion. Basically you're a good guy, but with the tragic character flaw of occasional kleptomania. You don't do it because you're a greedy, uncompanssionate person, but because you just have a compulsive attraction to shiny objects. Etc.

Is that it's evil to steal (as thieves do), and it should be
restricted to non-good only.

Meanwhile, warriors bash, stick you on the tip of their polearm
and cut your arteries out, Shamen make your flesh rot off and
wither away, Transmuters shred your organs to pieces, Invokers
char/freeze/electrocute/drown you, and Assassins... well yeah.
But of course, they shouldn't be restricted.

- Kravidian

play a neutral character next time you wana do shady stuff. Neutral or evil, goodies are too limited for that especially for a thief. As an elf you got slapped with the neutral stick for dealing with evils. That way you can do pretty much whatever you want and not be condemned for it.

Not entirely sound advice. Neutrals should be exactly that, neutral. If you stray too far good or too far evil, you've ceased to be neutral. Obviously we allow neutrals to sway, because that's the nature of the beast that is CF. However, if you play a neutral, keep in mind you are playing a neutral, not a good with fewer morals, or an evil with more morals.

IMHO, i dont think this is fair however, given you were a thief. Its evil to steal periord, which is by deffinition, taking things from others that dont belong to you.

Yes and no. However, in CF it can be argued that the person aquired the item through violent means and therefore it's not really theirs either. As it was brought up already, see the legend of Robin Hood for a precedent here. Additionally motives and intent tend to lend a lot towards defining good or evil. (This is where your role comes into play kids)

I think goodies shouldnt be allowed as thieves, just like you dont allow svirf paladins, or cloud shamans. Thieving has to come with rather loose morals which obviously are not accepted by imms as fitting for a goodie thief...a contradiction in terms.

Really? I thought Jirash made one hell of a goodie thief, as did Rahnac, Jubair, Desrav..each of them had a much looser moral ground than say a paladin, but there's no doubting that each one of them was very much good aligned. Theft is not an act of evil in and of itself. It's not something I'd care to see from a paladin, but then paladins set themselves to the highest possible moral ground. Setting your sights lower than a paladin's morality does not make you evil.

Shady deals i think are acceptable for a thief, its in their nature.

Maybe, but it depends on the nature of the deal and how the thief goes about it. Trading a powerful weapon to an evil for some copper? No matter how you cut it that's not going to come across as an act of good. Luring the evil into an ambush by using shady deals? That might be an act of good. Offering something for a divinely witnessed promise of peace? Again, possibly an acceptable shady deal. What I'm trying to point out here is that there are lots of ways a thief can employ his 'shady' nature for good or for awesome. When it's done for personal gain, chances are the theif in question is not playing by a moral code that is even close to goodly.

Yeah, I was angry at you for giving me all of those things. I have a pretty high up Imperial too (which I'm letting auto) and I remember seeing that note to them about having an arrangement, so I was like, darnit, ooc information, grrr, must... try... not... to act on it. Anyhow, I succeeded and eventually grew to like you, and agree with all the people who say "he's a character." There are a lot of them. Anyhow, sad to see such a nice deceptiony guy go. *wave*

So what exactly did Rusken do to get his Kin-Betrayer title?

nt

Is that it had something to do with our trading agreement. Also possibly whatever he had going on with certain members of the empire.

Eta.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Rusken! I didn't know you fell, alas.. You know, you never paid your 30 gold for me in that auction. You were incredibly nice; I would said I'd miss you, but seeing as how I'm gone, too... Well, reckon we're together again, eh? Rest Well, Kingpin.