 Scary,
Twist ,
22-May-15 04:41 PM, #40
  That means a lot from the guy that makes the most scari...,
Amberion,
22-May-15 04:59 PM, #41
 Uh, that would be Marcus and Beront. But thanks!,
Twist ,
22-May-15 05:22 PM, #42
 Good times,
Tsalantha (Anonymous),
20-May-15 05:44 AM, #37
  Ooh, I was 100% sure it was Jeede...,
Amberion,
20-May-15 02:24 PM, #38
 A HUGE thank you for all the kind words and nice PMs th...,
Amberion,
19-May-15 01:26 PM, #36
 In the times of 'Perial Hordz,
Murphy,
17-May-15 06:35 PM, #25
  Hahaha yeah, me and my gear.,
Amberion,
18-May-15 12:05 PM, #32
 RE: Hahaha yeah, me and my gear.,
Falstaff,
18-May-15 09:53 PM, #34
 Half of the fun at the Tree goes away with you,
Gromm (Anonymous),
17-May-15 02:53 PM, #23
  Thanks Gromm! ,
Amberion,
18-May-15 12:02 PM, #31
 RE: (CON LOSS) [OUTLANDER] Liantae Kard en' Liante the ...,
Kregan (Anonymous),
17-May-15 01:00 AM, #10
  Yes, it's a fine line!,
Amberion,
17-May-15 03:27 AM, #17
 Well played..,
Zargu,
16-May-15 08:32 PM, #7
  Well, healeres had a rough time against me...,
Amberion,
17-May-15 03:24 AM, #16
 Goodbyes from Liantae,
Amberion,
16-May-15 06:44 PM, #2
  To ancient flame:,
Amberion,
16-May-15 06:46 PM, #3
   RE: To ancient flame:,
Strienat,
16-May-15 06:57 PM, #5
  Thank you for those words!,
Amberion,
17-May-15 03:18 AM, #11
  And thank you for the echoes!,
Amberion,
16-May-15 06:57 PM, #4
  RE: Goodbyes from Liantae,
marintok,
16-May-15 07:15 PM, #6
   Yeah, you had an insane development curve!,
Amberion,
17-May-15 03:23 AM, #15
  much respect as Mayal and others,
Dallevian,
16-May-15 10:21 PM, #8
   Maynak! ,
Amberion,
17-May-15 03:21 AM, #14
   I can't do kill sealing warrior like liantae,
incognito,
17-May-15 04:17 AM, #18
  Thank you. I try my best. ,
Amberion,
17-May-15 07:49 AM, #19
  Good banter,
Nuerria (Anonymous),
17-May-15 12:10 AM, #9
   Yeah, it was some good bantering!,
Amberion,
17-May-15 03:20 AM, #13
  The only outlander I always liked IC,
Ireswyn (Anonymous),
17-May-15 08:38 AM, #20
   The shadowplane was awesome!,
Amberion,
17-May-15 02:34 PM, #22
  Nice job - nt- ,
Gryshilniar,
17-May-15 10:46 AM, #21
  RE: Goodbyes from Liantae,
Adesoka (Anonymous),
17-May-15 03:03 PM, #24
   Yeah, I was kinda nasty against you in terms of manipul...,
Amberion,
18-May-15 11:57 AM, #28
  sad to see you go,
Talisin (Anonymous),
18-May-15 09:10 AM, #26
   Yeah, about the Birtoc thingy...,
Amberion,
18-May-15 11:59 AM, #29
  RE: Goodbyes from Liantae,
Verathi,
18-May-15 09:57 AM, #27
   Yeah, we had some bad timing on logins...,
Amberion,
18-May-15 12:00 PM, #30
  thumbsup!,
Whiysdan ,
18-May-15 04:06 PM, #33
   Thanks! :) N/T,
Amberion,
19-May-15 12:53 PM, #35
  RE: Goodbyes from Liantae,
Keara (Anonymous),
20-May-15 08:45 PM, #39
 RE: (CON LOSS) [OUTLANDER] Liantae Kard en' Liante the ...,
Milo (Anonymous),
16-May-15 06:30 PM, #1
 Thank you Milo, I can say the same.,
Amberion,
17-May-15 03:19 AM, #12
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Twist | Fri 22-May-15 05:22 PM |
Member since 23rd Sep 2006
3431 posts
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#124355, "Uh, that would be Marcus and Beront. But thanks!"
In response to Reply #41
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#124333, "Good times"
In response to Reply #0
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Thanks for being a great enemy and bringing the fight to me. You came so close to getting me so many times I'm surprised it never happened. I think I feared you more when you used swords but that probably just means I was closer to getting disembowelled than I knew.
Do you remember when you came to the scarab temple for me and left because you saw the gargoyle greet jeede? It wasn't jeede. It was someone who couldn't harm you but I was glad to get a breather! 
This character felt like your best yet to me. It's good to know that somewhere out there is the same player in a new character. I hope we cross paths as ally or enemy.
Glwyn
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Amberion | Mon 18-May-15 12:05 PM |
Member since 06th Jun 2007
945 posts
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#124319, "Hahaha yeah, me and my gear."
In response to Reply #25
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I do love me some gear! Well, before I headed to fight you in Galadon I always checked out the empire first. I'd run there, hit up the centurions and make sure to show a pressence. Then I'd leave them to sit at their centurions to fight you instead. Might as well do something fun and useful than dying to impossible odds. (Though most of the time, after a few fights with you or whomever other Tribbie online, I'd make a quick run to the imperial lands, hoping that they'd be slacking off on being prepped etc. It did get me killed a few times, but it also landed me some pretty amazing retrieves and kills.)
I liked Haraji, you were real tough! If I ever decide to try a bard, I'll ask you for advice! (One of few classes I've never tried, how the hell do you even think up a role for a bard?!? Hehe) Always shoot first and then call whatever you hit the target.
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Falstaff | Mon 18-May-15 09:53 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
136 posts
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#124323, "RE: Hahaha yeah, me and my gear."
In response to Reply #32
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Bard Role seeds:
1) Aldevari jester, envious of the people he sees receiving quests from Olgakar, ventures out to see the world and gain renown of his own.
2) Half-drow prostitute, after working the docks in Hamsah, wants to use her guile and charm to better her circumstances...
3) Arial with a misshaped beak cannot sing well, but plays a mean guitar/flute/drum. Shunned by his family for his deformity, he journeys south out of the mountains to find adventure and acceptance.
Now, GO MAKE A BARD!
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#124308, "Half of the fun at the Tree goes away with you"
In response to Reply #0
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I hope that someone will fill that gaping hole. As was already mentioned, you did really play a role of a death&chaos whirlwind about yourself when you logged in, eventually sucking the whole realm inside it. That was so great to behold that I was always sad if forced to leave before you did so.
I'm so much happy that our playing times matched to some extent, and truly thankful to you for giving me opportunity to see your action from inside the Tree - beholding things getting in motion was always too much of fun.
I'm somewhat sad though that you preferred 1 on 1 fights mostly, forcing me miss much of it, but well, you can't have it all I guess.
GLWYN, I'm sure it will also be a blast.
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Amberion | Mon 18-May-15 12:02 PM |
Member since 06th Jun 2007
945 posts
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#124318, "Thanks Gromm! "
In response to Reply #23
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And yeah, I kinda regret favour 1vs1 fights since it kinda forced other outlanders to do the same which made us kinda suck as a group-force. (Which became obvious in that raid against the spire. hehe)
Keep it up dude! You're doing great! Always shoot first and then call whatever you hit the target.
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#124293, "RE: (CON LOSS) [OUTLANDER] Liantae Kard en' Liante the ..."
In response to Reply #0
Edited on Sun 17-May-15 01:00 AM
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That fight in Imperial lands was EPIC. From my count it went on for closer to an hour and a half, I cannot believe in that time we didn't get interrupted. You did get me in the end, if I could block you from fleeing just for that one more round I may have got you as well . It was a very fine line between me making you flee before I killed you, or overcommitting and giving you the chance to get me instead, and well ... every time I stepped over that line.
Very tough very respected.
GLWYN
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Zargu | Sat 16-May-15 08:31 PM |
Member since 06th Mar 2003
208 posts
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#124283, "Well played.."
In response to Reply #0
Edited on Sat 16-May-15 08:32 PM
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I will breath a little more with ease now you are gone. Always deadly, and not afraid to go against even two, three or more.
There is little to do against a warrior as a healer, It helped a bit when I got the staff of Striking, apart from that I could just stand there, tend my wounds as your axes or swords ripped me apart, while I tried to kick you to death.
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Amberion | Sat 16-May-15 06:44 PM |
Member since 06th Jun 2007
945 posts
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#124276, "Goodbyes from Liantae"
In response to Reply #0
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Yes, this was not unexpected to most, that is was me playing. I have SO many tells by now that it's ridiculus. 1: Gear whore! 2: Saying stuff like "well fought" when being an evil bastard etc. (I can never be evil enough it seem to my enemies!)
Anyway, I had a 1.5 year long hiatus I think (or was it only 7 months?) after Voralia. The opening of hell I think brought me back to CF. Or was it ST that brought me back? I can't remember now. So, I decided to roll something I know how to play that I have tried before but failed, a d-elf warrior. And since I've ever only had 3 outlanders which all were failures, I figured I'd go for that. The goal was only to get back into CF. It did not take me long to get "into the char" and I loved the RP and the fighting.
Liantae was a drow that loved spiders, REALLY loved spiders. For the longest time she prayed to the spider goddess, tried to act like a spider, tried to be a spider. Liantae was sphere death and also believed that she served death, her main goal was to see as many deaths as possible. Her own and others. I think she did! I wonder how many it ended up with in total.
Liantae also strongly believed in the erradication of the wardens. She even set the rule to be: You can even kill wardens when we're defending, IF you think you still can defend without them. If you fail to defend though, it would basically mean a HUGE crackdown from the "ancient flames". It was KOS on wardens outside of the tree unless they were needed for something.
A HUGE thank you to all of the staff for all of the good stuff you do for the game!
Verathi: You're awesome! Thank you for all the interactions, the quests, tattoo, con-quest etc! I had a blast RPing with you! I love your shrine! It's awesome! A shame that I didn't have THAT much use for the thing you showed me about the tattoo, but lots of chars will in the future. I loved the procs, they're very suiting.
Akresius: Thanks for all the interactions and the encouragement. I'm glad you seemed to enjoyed watching me. When I was "looking around" I was actually considering you, then Verathi's religion popped up and it fit like a glove! Even though I was outside of his spheres.
Outlanders: Lilyth: Awesome, I don't have words! I had SO much fun interacting, RPing, fighting etc with you! I could ALWAYS count on you! A shame our hours didn't match up that well near the end though.
Gromm: I really do love you dude! You're great! I'm SO sorry for trying to RP you out of your storyline I think you had going with Corzu, but it made sense RP-wise for Liantae ofc. Keep it all up! You're learning!
Pon: You're good at what you do, you have good RP, you fight well alone, but man! Coordinate a bit! And I'm not sure, but you seemed to become a bit whiny when complained at. (Might be RP though, it would make sense from what I know of Pons RP.)
Milo: Well, posted on your goodbye. But again, great stuff!
Felar ranger guy C-something: Get up there! You'll be a force!
The rest of you, you're all great! All the wardens that I killed, harassed, cursed at etc, great stuff! Most of you took it real well.
Imperials: Xeneth: I called you to that fight since it was about 60/40 in my favour I thought, when you showed up with black sanc, I knew it was basically over. Which was alright by me. You are tied for the best foe I've ever had! We've exchanged the same gear back and forth over the past six months like I've never seen before, loads and loads of great fights! Never a bad word, only respect/or good RP. You have a great character and you're a great player! I think I know who you are. Keep it all up and thanks for the RP post-death.
Zhabala: Also a very classy foe, thanks for all the good fights! Somewhere along the way I think you found your stride from just being the regular "sideline empire healer" to figuring out how to PK with a healer. You nearly killed me three or four times! And you had some balls the last two months!
Khalmarnasa: Silent and dangerous. There are no words needed for a mummy. Good stuff!
Kregan: It was hilarious that day when STFS just refused to work, one hour long fight and 0 blocks out of what must have been 100+ flees from you! You're classy.
Celent: Can't say I've talked much with you. You're most likely the most careful AP I've ever encountered! Has that many really walked into traps for you to get such a huge weapon? That duel in the imperial lands, I had really hoped you'd not prep THAT much to make it more of a fight. I was mostly curious to my charge-count and somewhat drunk.
Scarab: Jeede: We never got that fight did we? Great RP! I was ALWAYS wary when you were about, I never really could feel safe even if we had some sort of silent agreement not to fight.
Thal... AP dude!: Great fights! Great talks! You've got awesome RP and you've got the skills! Keep it up! Rip Celents weapon from him! I'd LOVE to see you have all those charges and rape up Thera!
Fortress: Adesoka: My nemesis! I just loved it when you got that title! My oposite, you were almost the exact same build but as a Maran! Had loads of great fights! You have a bit more to learn about PK, but you're on the way! Yes, I won because you played into my hands, and I used any means I had to get you were I wanted. But I also did the same a few times, and that payed off for you. Sorry that I went through your prep bag the last time I killed you, I had just lost mine which is a PAIN for an outlander to fill.
Corzu: You make a gnome ranger look dangerous! Normally I didn't fear you much, but sometimes you just ripped through me. If you had someone at your side, I would really hesitate to come near you.
Tribunal: Hitrilipimi: I just CANNOT believe that you managed to defend for that long against 3 reavers! Though we were highly uncoordinated... In the end I had to do it all myself. I think you'll be great for the spire.
Nexuns: Marintok: You are tied with Xeneth for greatest foes! A shame our hours didn't match up. When we first met, you seemed to be a pushover and I figured I'd go easy on you. But you quickly became a beast to recon with and I had to really think and play my cards right against you! I sure hope Akresius awards you well for hanging in there for so long eating all those deaths I saw you get!
Talisin: You finally managed to get me in a 1vs1! You were great! I just had to tell Akresius that, which I actually did after you killed me. I made him promise though never to reveal that to you ICly. Keep it up! Can't believe though how many times you ran into the whirlpool! Were those mistakes or you trying to trap me?
Village: Aoirse: You're almost the only one I remember from the village save for the felar assassin drillmaster that was there before your time. I kinda liked you. 
Huge thank you to everyone! I've forgotten tons of great people here, but I'll keep an eye here and respond if someone writes something.
Ooh, and I'll be back in a new incarnation soon enough. I just need a new role now. Always shoot first and then call whatever you hit the target.
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Amberion | Sat 16-May-15 06:46 PM |
Member since 06th Jun 2007
945 posts
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#124277, "To ancient flame:"
In response to Reply #2
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Forgot about you! Whomever you were!
GREAT interactions! I got annoyed at some point though, which I think shined through when I got slapped for hunting fortress I think. But that was the only moment.
I LOVED the interaction where I was asked about the little event I had planned. Thank you for that! Great stuff! Always shoot first and then call whatever you hit the target.
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Strienat | Sat 16-May-15 06:57 PM |
Member since 23rd Dec 2013
76 posts
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#124280, "RE: To ancient flame:"
In response to Reply #3
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You are most welcome. You were probably one of the best Nightreavers I've had, if not the best (I still have a soft spot for Azzael as he was my first Nightreaver). You were never afraid to take it to your enemies and I loved being able to watch that.
About the Fortress incident, I know Reavers LOVE to kill Fortress. But about the fifth time I saw you login and directly move to the Fortress without even trying to take an item (Scales/etc), I felt it was time to say something.
The Tree will miss you a bunch. I was really hoping to talk to you before you quit and was about to, but didn't have time before you quit out after your death. I do wish you luck in whatever you have planned, it has been great having you around and I hope I get to interact somehow with whatever you make in the future.
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Amberion | Sat 16-May-15 06:57 PM |
Member since 06th Jun 2007
945 posts
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#124279, "And thank you for the echoes!"
In response to Reply #2
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For those that missed them here they are:
http://www.carrionfields.net/gechoes.php
The civilized world breathes a bit easier.... For now. (Sat, 16 May 2015 18:17:35 -0500)
As Liantae's body slowly crumbles, returning to Thar-Eris, the spiders pay homage to the Lady of Death. (Sat, 16 May 2015 18:17:06 -0500)
Seething masses of bulbous bodies and hairy legs descend upon the Holy Grove. (Sat, 16 May 2015 18:16:53 -0500)
The trickle soon becomes a flood. (Sat, 16 May 2015 18:16:41 -0500)
From every corner of the world, a trickle of spiders begin to march. (Sat, 16 May 2015 18:16:23 -0500)
Thousands of tiny spiders crawl out into the world and immediately turn toward the east. (Sat, 16 May 2015 18:16:16 -0500)
Somewhere deep in the Spiderhaunt Woods, an egg sac quivers and splits open. (Sat, 16 May 2015 18:16:04 -0500)
The Emperor pierces the heart of the Nightreaver, spilling her blood one final time. (Sat, 16 May 2015 18:15:57 -0500)
As two dark-elves are locked in a beautiful dance of blades, an unexpected thing occurs. (Sat, 16 May 2015 18:15:50 -0500) Always shoot first and then call whatever you hit the target.
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marintok | Sat 16-May-15 07:15 PM |
Member since 23rd Nov 2014
70 posts
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#124281, "RE: Goodbyes from Liantae"
In response to Reply #2
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you were tough, the first few times we fought each other you just rolled right over me. You made me change the entire way I fought,I was already getting tooled by villagers and i just expected that to happen but then you can along and litterally beat me without breaking a sweat.I had to rethink my entire play style which put me on the road to who I am today. we didnt mix it up much at the end but I felt I had the upper hand a few times towards the end, its hard for tree folk to deal with impales and double mithril swords to boot. So what can I say, other than super awesome char and you really were deathful man you would literall affect the entire mud when you logged on, people would have to be ready for you at any time in any place, good luck with your next.
Marintok
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Amberion | Sun 17-May-15 03:23 AM |
Member since 06th Jun 2007
945 posts
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#124299, "Yeah, you had an insane development curve!"
In response to Reply #6
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As you say, I rolled over you in the early days. But in the end, you had my number unless I played it right. Our logins didn't match very well in the end, it was either you or Xeneth I wanted my to give my final death.
Keep up the great work! Always shoot first and then call whatever you hit the target.
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Dallevian | Sat 16-May-15 10:21 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
1711 posts
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#124284, "much respect as Mayal and others"
In response to Reply #2
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i think i did 3 outtie heros with Liantae, but early days as Mayal when it was just me and you in the 30s trying to scrap our way up was a blast. i thought you were Daurwyn at first just due to the play time and on/off logins (kids/work, i get it!). but man, Liantae was a fun, always moving, always fighting, awesome character. loved it.
cheers!
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Amberion | Sun 17-May-15 03:21 AM |
Member since 06th Jun 2007
945 posts
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#124298, "Maynak! "
In response to Reply #8
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Yeah! Those were fun days! I had a blast lvling up with you! Thanks for the kind words, a shame you didn't stick around. Always shoot first and then call whatever you hit the target.
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incognito | Sun 17-May-15 04:17 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
4495 posts
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#124302, "I can't do kill sealing warrior like liantae"
In response to Reply #8
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Mine are the kind it can be hard to stop retrieving (eg cagocluse) but they aren't deadly like Liantae was.
I saw nothing bad from Liantae and everything good. Based on my observations just an absolutely class character.
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Amberion | Sun 17-May-15 07:49 AM |
Member since 06th Jun 2007
945 posts
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#124304, "Thank you. I try my best. "
In response to Reply #18
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Though sometimes I just get annoyed, I believe a few people get to see that. But I think they're less and less for each char I make. Always shoot first and then call whatever you hit the target.
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#124289, "Good banter"
In response to Reply #2
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Don't know if you can tell or not, but I often would leave you alone just so you can fight imperials. Of course, if you're not, you become fair game. Don't think any of us got each other fwiw. Always appreciated you will to throw down, even if you ran early. GLWYN and make a villager just so you can rock in regear. Seriously, if you lay off the gear crutch, you'd be pimp.
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#124305, "The only outlander I always liked IC"
In response to Reply #2
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I enjoyed the talks and going to the shadow plane with you. I was always on edge with Liantae though, just since I never knew if you would randomly pincer me. I think you were one of the ones I made a point of trying not to fight against though, since usually it was more fun just to watch you do your thing.
Fighting you and Lilyth near the fort was one of the most insane fights I've ever had. I would have loved to get one of you, but surviving it was a win for me.
A great and what looked to be very fun char.
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Amberion | Sun 17-May-15 02:34 PM |
Member since 06th Jun 2007
945 posts
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#124307, "The shadowplane was awesome!"
In response to Reply #20
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And yeah, I always wanted to kill you RP-wise but I really enjoyed talking and hanging out with you so I was reluctant as a player. That fight at the fort was great! I just barely, BARELY survived! Always shoot first and then call whatever you hit the target.
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Gryshilniar | Sun 17-May-15 10:45 AM |
Member since 31st Jan 2006
85 posts
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#124306, "Nice job - nt- "
In response to Reply #2
Edited on Sun 17-May-15 10:46 AM
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Had a few interactions with you and mostly enjoyed them. GLWYN!
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#124309, "RE: Goodbyes from Liantae"
In response to Reply #2
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Very nicely done. I obviously only caught the tail end of Liantae's life, but you definitely made an impact when you logged-in, which I think is more important than ever given the low player numbers.
You definitely got the best of me in terms of wins/losses (which isn't that hard but you did it in pretty impressive ways). A couple minor things rubbed me the wrong way but I'm sure that goes both ways and is probably annoyance that I let you manipulate my character so much. Regarding that last death - I don't mind being looted but I wasn't going to sit around as you slowly went through my prep bag .
Hope you come back soon.
Adesoka
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Amberion | Mon 18-May-15 11:57 AM |
Member since 06th Jun 2007
945 posts
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#124315, "Yeah, I was kinda nasty against you in terms of manipul..."
In response to Reply #24
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... But I knew that in a straight up prepared fight, I'd have to prepare like crazy. And I'm REALLY sick of prepping, I didn't prep more than perhaps 1/20 fights with Liantae, at most.
I loved Adesoka, you were a very dangerous mirror image of Liantae. Always shoot first and then call whatever you hit the target.
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#124313, "sad to see you go"
In response to Reply #2
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You always changed the dynamic when you were around--you'll be missed. I was glad to get you that one time alone, since you were a nasty combination of deadly and not-stupid. I've had people tell me that I just need to sing STSF elves to sleep to kill them, but that's really not the case. Even that one time in Galadon, when I had you cursed/plagued/poisoned, I sung 5 fiends at you without even waking you. Out of mana, I was just going to try to trip spam you, but you woke and left before I could (and ended up hitting Birtoc's traps outside, which I honestly knew nothing about, but, in hindsight, could have figured he was setting nearby since I saw some skulking about).
Outside of your occasional rant when some third-party butted in on our fights, you were a classy foe and great occasional ally. GLWYN.
And oh, those whirlpools were total accidents. The second time, I thought if I prepped up, I could turn it into a trap, but obviously it backfired completely 
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Verathi | Mon 18-May-15 09:57 AM |
Member since 10th Dec 2014
92 posts
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#124314, "RE: Goodbyes from Liantae"
In response to Reply #2
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The only bad part of Liantae to me was that you almost always managed to be logging in when I had to be heading out. The evolution of our talks made you coming into my religion feel very natural and it would surprise me to remember you weren't even my sphere at times. There is nothing quite like being able to pit your followers against each other. Even though I knew I was probably going to be seeing Magner lose, it was still amusing to watch that fight. Overall, well done.
Anyways, Keep it up and GLWYN. Oh, and FWIW I tend to be one to say "Well fought" afterwards as well - so hopefully we can cause some confusion about people thinking they know who people are.
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Amberion | Mon 18-May-15 12:00 PM |
Member since 06th Jun 2007
945 posts
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#124317, "Yeah, we had some bad timing on logins..."
In response to Reply #27
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... When you finally caught me a few times, I was having troubles with the kids at home, or stuff like that.
I really enjoyed our talks and the religion fit so perfectly in how Liantae evolved. You came along in a perfect timing for Liantae and took her in.
I love the religion!
Anyway, let's hope we do cause some confusion about that! Always shoot first and then call whatever you hit the target.
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Amberion | Tue 19-May-15 12:53 PM |
Member since 06th Jun 2007
945 posts
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#124326, "Thanks! :) N/T"
In response to Reply #33
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N/T Always shoot first and then call whatever you hit the target.
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#124338, "RE: Goodbyes from Liantae"
In response to Reply #2
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Man did you utterly toast me in pk. A lot of fun trying to figure out how to survive you. Or help gang you down. But usually just attempt to not die.
Good char. Best of luck with the next!
K
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#124274, "RE: (CON LOSS) [OUTLANDER] Liantae Kard en' Liante the ..."
In response to Reply #0
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And I was dying all of the time?  I admire the heck out of your player abilities but you were a menacing evil in the heart of the tree through two of my characters and I thought your RP was outstanding. You made my play better just by being the menacing shadow standing... where pk 
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