NT

The few who have played magic-user followers of Amaranthe have all been specifically indoctrinated in this to one degree or another, though I've never documented it in the game, preferring to take magic-users through the process in an IC-manner.

However, I'll offer some generalities here.

- Amaranthe does, in fact, see magic as an extremely dangerous weapon with catastrophic consequences if used recklessly.

- Amaranthe offers instruction in what she calls "witchlore and folkways" to magic users who seek to enter the Coven of the Harvest Moon. Without going into detail, this involves the ecologically sound practice of magick. This is primarily roleplayed, but if there's an unusual circumstance (such as the recent conjurer I've tattooed) it may involve some kind of actual alteration in the way magic is used by the character. Shapeshifters, invokers, and transmuters are generally pretty safe to play as my follower without requiring some kind of behavior alteration that significantly impacts gameplay.

Amaranthe might be able to clarify more, but here's the gist I've picked up as one of her followers.

Magic isn't necessarily "good" or "bad", but more viewed as a powerful, and possibly dangerous tool. As a mage follower, it's sort of making certain you have an awareness of the damage you COULD cause, and be certain you're using your magic to help things rather than hurt.

That said, the use of magic to cheat death (necromancers), is utterly anathema to Amaranthe, and I generally took a pretty unwelcome approach to APs and Conjurers. Shapeshifters, Invokers, and Transmuters you're likely pretty solid with.

For you and/or Amaranthe.

In the same vein. Magic being good or bad vs. nature.

Sphere help files and such indicate that sphere Magic is opposite of sphere Nature.

How is the reconciled in terms of magic-users in the Outlander cabal? Is that kind of knowledge too arcane to matter?

Or is it more like just because two spheres are opposed doesn't make them "against" each other. Maybe someone who worships nature is likewise worried about the balance of forces therein and since magic is "natural" it's ok that it is "Nature" opposed, but isn't "nature" opposed. or I don't know. Just curious what the thought on the subject is.

I've always thought battleragers/outlanders should be a bit close because of the Nature vs. Magic bit.

I was absent from CF during construction of the spheres, but if I had been there, I would have made sure they were more coherently organized. ("Magic" is its own sphere, for example, though "Nature" is not. Unlike, say "Chaos" and "Order", which are both spheres, or the case of "Light" and "Shadow" where neither were spheres.)

I thought Twist's Magic vs. Nature war was an interesting one, and something that stirred the proverbial pot at a time when it needed it. But conceptually, it becomes problematic when you think about it too much. CF is SUCH a high-magic universe, it's hard to disassociate magic from nature entirely. Where do elves, pixies, nymphs, dryads, magic trees, etc, fall into that scheme? If you want to get down to the nitty-gritty, you're pretty firmly in Battlerager territory. You can still make an argument for some crazy mages wanting to create a magical reality, but it's not very possible for naturalists in CF to be in favor of a natural world devoid of magic without destroying a great deal of what has become intrinsic to nature as it exists in CF. (Either that, or just ostensibly being Battleragers, but in that case, what's the point?)

Historical behind-the-scenes note: I was very integral in coming up with the concept of the Veil. While I offered up the Veil as way to approach very specific Nexus role some of the other imms wanted, the Veil had often been something I used as an RP mechanism as Amaranthe as a way to reconcile the Magic/Nature dichotomy. It's a divide between two things that still remain interconnected, kind of like Light and Shadow. Being affiliated with the Light doesn't mean you want to literally eliminate anything associated with Shadow. You would not expect or even want night and darkness and shadows and shadow-influenced aspects of life to literally stop existing. You understand these things are part of reality and are not even necessarily against the *good ethic* that goes along with being influenced by the Light. (Poetry and the Moon, for example, are influenced by Shadow. We wouldn't find anything wrong with a sphere Poetry poet being in the Fortress.)

Similarly I think there is the nature-oriented ethic that is not necessarily in favor of everything falls under the domain of the Force of Nature or opposed to everything that falls under the domain of the Force of Magic.

Of course you can have abstract discussions about this until you're blue in the face, but I think the beauty of the Veil is acknowledging that there is some kind of flow that is reasonable, and some kind of flow that is dangerous.

As as aside, that is how I hope my followers (and most Outlanders) likewise view civilization. Not ALL civilization is bad, just reckless and destructively expansive civilization. Very few Outlanders, for example, would find any need to destroy Evermoon (which is technically still civilization.)

To you both for the answers. Very good stuff.

Thanks for pointing out about "some civilization" being ok, because I think that is something many people miss.

Overall, it's vague enough that you could probably spin your views in a number of different ways you might like. The view I often use (which is generally Nythos' as well), is that Nature acts in a certain way, and Magic is generally defined as a power that can change or even reverse what occurs in Nature. However, in the CF world, magic permeates the world, and is just as natural as breathing (Seaweed, floating Cloud giants, svirfnebli/arial elemental affinities, etc).

This isn't necessarily bad, as you can use these powers to achieve things others couldn't...sort of Green Lantern/X-Men style. However, returning to the Amaranthian views, magic can be quite dangerous if abused (Necromancy, etc). Nythos also tends to view his own druidic powers as sort of Amaranthe-approved magic to work to assist nature.

However, I have also used the Magic vs. Nature angle as a basis for Wood-Elf or Centaur BattleRager roles, with the idea that Magic itself is abhorrent and dangerous to nature, and should be stamped out entirely. How you choose to view it for your characters is up to you!

That said there is exceptions to almost everything, if spun brilliantly enough.

As some know, I currently have a tattooed conjurer (my first and only). Not only is she a conjurer, but she is a conjurer that initially had a *particularly* dangerous and aberrant view of magic, in Amaranthe's eyes.

What most do not realize is the fundamental paradigm shift this character had to go through, and the kind of sacrifices she chose to make to learn how to practice her magic in a way Amaranthe would agree was being ecologically sound.

Most players are not going to want to go through that kind of RP rigamarole, though (or even necessarily be able to pull it off, frankly.)

Invokers, shapeshifters, and transmuters can all pretty easily learn to RP Amaranthe-approved magic use without having to alter their game in any significant way.