Is there any chance that if others agree and I think most will that we can just accept the Entropy Cabal revival has not worked. Can we not just bring back either:

Nexus just how it was (I liked this cabal) or

Scion (with perhaps despoil removed)

But there is a number of non-mages in the cabal. I'd say that's a step in right direction.

I don't think (could be wrong) there's a firm consensus amongst the staff as to whether Entropy is ready for an abortion. In my opinion it probably is.

I'd be a hard no against bringing Scion back in general, but especially so given the narrative we used when Scarab did its thing.

I liked Nexus but I don't really think that's a good idea either. I'm inclined to agree that its gimmick just doesn't play in modern CF, plus it was never all that popular to begin with. Honestly, I'd probably prefer a net minus one cabal than go down this route.

I have some ideas kicking around for Master (both from a couple years ago and more recently) that are waiting for me when I get motivated about CF again.

All that said, I don't think Entropy is that bad. It's not a dead obvious join for the powers cabal, but I'm fine with that. We cater that crowd plenty in other cabals.

no text

The Keeper is a joke compared to the other inners and given the powers of their primary enemy (Villagers) and the lack of Entropy PK powers, it feels very rough to defend.

The problem is that Entropy seems like it wants to fill the void of a magic-focused cabal as a counterpoint to Battle. Except it's too niche and powerless to do so.

CF needs some kind of legitimate, permanent enemy to Battle, and a place where all of the homeless mages can call home. Right now, there are a huge number of mage options that won't fit into any cabal due to align/ethos. That should be fixed.

Honestly I think we could manage with six cabals..

Order vs Chaos
Good vs Evil
Magic vs Deathblow

We don't need anything more niche than those, given our playerbase size. Interactions beyond those permanent wars would be player-driven, so you would still have that element of politics and variability depending on PC leadership.

Plus get rid of a ridiculously long randomizer timing, especially on a failed randomize.

Not sure getting doppelganger will help, they need a PK power. Maybe some blast of chaotic magic? Maybe area attack, random effects on the enemy (all detrimental), maybe random effects on self (all beneficial). Would have to be fairly powerful to make it worth it over class spells though.

Currently you don't see much action since there are zero powers. Even disperse is severely nerfed. They need something for villagers to fear them. Or at least make a worthy enemy.

Imho entropy powers do look like pk powers.

Disperse to split ganks and help defend, provided you intercept the raiders en route.

Garble blocking casting. Randomise making fleeing on foot hard.

Don't quite understand improbability tunnel but if it does bypass protections at times that's pretty nice.

And Doppler, if restored, is a massive pk asset.

Let players quest for their powers, or fix the ones that don't work.

That'd go a long way towards improving the cabal.

The honest answer to this question is because the guy who started the project is too busy and nobody else who can has the desire.

Entropy is probably a good example of why large projects like this shouldn't be rolled out until most of the underlying work is actually done. For virtually all of CF's existence, major projects like these have been led by one or two people and there are literally dozens of such projects that never saw the light of day (and thus players were/are none the wiser) because their original leader(s) lost interest or didn't have time. There are areas, cabals, classes and features laying around the codebase in parts and pieces for this very reason, and the only real difference between those things and Entropy is that with Entropy we tried to do it live and apparently that didn't work out so well.

If I, personally, were going to tackle "fixing" the status quo I'd do it by going a different route. Someone else might do it by changing Entropy itself. Scar, if he had time, would probably continue down whatever path he had planned out in the first place.

At the end of the day though I still think Entropy is plenty playable and in fact pretty attractive from the RP side of things given the attention it's getting from that angle. It's just not quite where some people want it to be cabal wars wise, but then neither is Herald.

I've tried to be a champion for Entropy, but there have been a couple of issues.

First and foremost, very few people have played Entropy at all since it returned, and even fewer have done it right. This is not a "blame the players" post, so please don't read it that way. It's just a strange beast that most people don't stick around to fully understand - maybe because of boredom, maybe because of the lackluster powers.

Second, we have a shortage of coding resources right now, and fixing Entropy powers (mirror specifically) has proven more complicated than anyone had imagined. Add to this the fact that there are few people interested in playing a legit Entropist, and it seems pretty clear why this is a low priority.

I don't think of it as a failed experiment. I do think of it as a bit more niche than it could be. All that said, I think that right now, as a credit to its mortal "leadership," Entropy could be a really fun thing to try. It just isn't for powergamers, generally, though I think a skilled player could really make an Entropy mage shine (especially A-P, and also necro/transmuter).

Issue solved.

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=6&topic_id=69562&mesg_id=69602&page=

Most ppl wouldn't bother to push out of the box only to get a no after 100-200 hours invested.

Like I'll do a conjurer and you let me in, but oops I won't be able to use binding spells. Been there, done that, not quite interested

I myself have rolled a conjurer for Entropy when it went live. Abandoned it after I learned that conjurers aren't allowed. Considering every other mage class has a mechanically better option to join, PKers are unlikely to join Entropy.

Hence the current topic.

I'd rather have entropy powers than black sect powers, for pk.

saying entropy powers are better than black circle, centurions and sigil.

I think it's because I don't gang and am typically the only one on, even as an imperial.

Using sigil just gives people a chance to run, unless they can't run in which case you'd kill them anyway most of the time.

I personally find that I can use summon just fine without black circle. Having randomise would also hinder people running after the summon.

Centurions I tend not to use as I would have to gather more donations. And since mine are the only centurions people tend to either go around them, or just kill them fast when I'm doing something more productive than hiding near my centurions.

Empire powers are *generally* more useful, probably. Add to that the fact that you have a ton of allies and more occasion to gang and I guess it's a better choice if you're trying to maximize sheer power for necros and A-Ps.

But Imperials are also always at risk of losing their powers and are bound by a lot of rules and restrictions on behavior. Make it to a city and you're probably safe from an Imperial. Not so for an Entropist.

You're also forgetting that one of the Entropy powers is incredibly useful against almost any mage and another is incredibly useful against any Battlerager. Another power could immediately ruin any necromancer's day.

I would rather get slept by an Imperial than by an Entropist A-P or necromancer. Especially if I had any allies around. I'm sure you could guess why with a little bit of thought.

For transmuters, I can think of some amazing uses for every single current Entropy power. I'm genuinely surprised that we haven't had a crazy-successful Entropy murder-muter yet.

Shifters... well, I'll admit they kind of get the shaft right now. That said, there's one power that I would use the hell out of if I were a PK-focused shapeshifter.

If we're thinking of the same power, it has a cooldown of 140-200 hours (success or fail) and it seems to fail often even at 99% perfection.

It would be nice if you weren't hit with the cooldown if you used it someplace invalid (which is many places of interest), and a reduced (or zero) cooldown on a failed usage.

If you're talking about randomizer, we're not thinking about the same power.

As for the cooldown on randomizer, I'll raise that point with someone who could potentially fix it.

Here I am with a BS in computer science and began my dabbling in programming muds when I was 14 (36 now). Unfortunately - I've not done the process of hero-imming, application but wish there was a way to contribute to your lack of "coding resources".

Instead, the only option I had a year+ ago was an entirely different kind of steam-related startup project which I just didn't have the time to afford/learn anew while trying to reign in ownership of my daytime business as a security installation/low voltage technician.

I'd recommend improving your ability to task out coding projects without revealing more of the code than necessary (I at least imagine that to be the primary hurdle as to why one who has loved CF for two decades can't even throw their hat in the ring).

As to Entropy - I am intrigued enough to try and learn more about it, but annoyed that as a mage cable (others have voiced this too) it doesn't even allow all mages. I enjoy conjurers and thought at last, a conjie who has a resent to go two feet chaos. Luckily I realized this before ever creating a chaos conjie unlike a recent player who didn't find this fact out until well into their character's career - I sympathized other than him not doing the homework.

BECAUSE of that final point, I'd not miss entropy going bye bye for something that could be a Master's rebirth, embracing all mages and just mages, any alignment/ethos and perhaps flavor of powers behaving differently on mage class, mage align AND mage ethos. That would be magical.

*** But then we have the issue of my first part of this post and a lack of coders to make it happen...

I am moderately skilled at coding, and am trying to contribute in that way as well. The problem is that without full code access, one can only understand and contribute so much without a dedicated mentor willing to teach and do the necessary legwork to get the code into the game and bug-free.

This also limits the complexity of the obj/mob progs and skills that us lower-level folks can code.

That said, if you can code well and think you could muscle through writing some areas and paying your dues, you would probably advance through the IMM ranks relatively quickly. If you don't have the patience to deal with that stuff, save yourself the frustration.

Whatever they are. I had a very well liked character who was contributing to the game. I've only cheated once or twice in 1996ish when I was a newbie and had 3 characters at once and been RotD twice that I can recall in 20 years and denied once due to tribunal wanting everyone in the game in a childish, since I was a child then, bid to get into Entropy way back when. I don't troll people, I don't actively play with other players I know OOC, I don't Immbash, I try to help and when I give criticism I always try to be as constructive as I can with it. I was well liked by most Imms as far as I know and most Imms seemed to enjoy me in the game. I was looking to write areas and eventually help with coding and had even started prototyping a client to get onto steam while waiting for my results and was clear I knew it would be years when, and if, I would be able to help with the actual code base. I didn't have unreasonable expectations and was also clear I would work within the constraints required. I was upbeat and excited about being able to interact with players in a positive manner and coming up with ways to encourage more character interaction on the role-play level. I was then rejected for two very bizarre reasons. Talking to people in game, in character, in an area explore and for having an old post where I gave constructive criticism of conjurers. Both were obviously just excuses to tell me to #### off, which is why I don't touch the game anymore and as much as I miss it lost all desire to play. So yeah, I used to give this sentiment of try to Imm to people who complained as well but I cannot do so anymore since it seems to require some kind of good ole boy club membership or to use a proxy and completely lie about who you are which is something, on principle, I refuse to do. And yes, people who Immed before suggested it to me! I tried to be diplomatic about this for a while, but every time I see a post like this it just makes me sad and want to express my frustration that it just isn't true since people who are well known cheaters or Immbashers got a chance to Imm and others who try to stay positive, even if I sometimes complained at some of the toxic player base, like myself get refused with nothing but extremely thin excuses given. And even then, it took them a long time to contact me with the rejection even though they had my email, because they would only communicate, OOC mind, in game. There are many reasons people stop playing and sometimes it really is the poor communication or pettiness of the staff here and this is something you should consider, though I have a feeling you will not. I still wish CF well and can only dream of it becoming well populated and enjoyed by many new people like I did in my early days of gaming being introduced to the wonder of exploring the amazing world and experiencing the thrill of adrenaline pumping combat. Alas, I do not think it likely as it has been going.

You don't split your text into paragraphs.

I'm very sorry to hear about your frustrations. They certainly don't line up with my own experiences at all. Especially not with the current group of IMMs.

I don't know when you tried to IMM, who you tried to IMM as, or who rejected you or why, but I would be happy to chat with you about ways that you can contribute if you're interested. Would you mind emailing me at immrahsael@gmail.com?

If I were able to play if be playing entropy.

Why can't it just be the old mirror power? Isn't that still part of the code?

nt

It not as easy as copying the code from Baalzebub in hell is it? That prog seems to work.

nt