Pulling all the suggestions into one thread for easier future reference.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

Maybe cause having a high number of observes to give you extra attacks in combat, or a semi-random prog in battle that does a good amount of damage, like prayer beads or Maran weapons but with an arrow, only on the person you've been observing.

Also, cause high observes to lower the lag of aimed shot from two rounds to one. Makes sense you should be able to predict where they're going to be if you have been watching them for so long.

Being able to it a fleeing opponent in the rear end with an arrow seems like a fairly straightforward thing for a hunter to be able to do. Basically parting blow (or blows) with a bow on a fleeing opponent.

Since they are hunters and all.

Aimed shot -

1. hitting other body parts less often, (my note: right now the success rate seems way too low); and

2. having better lag potential (meaning occassionally perma-lagging, occassionally trip lagging - remove one round lagging).

Give hunters a greater chance to land poison with poison arrow, or immolate with flaming arrow, based on the number of times they used the skill prior to the strike.

Don't make it any harder to parry, dodge, shield block, or anything, just give it a greater chance, if the attack lands, of landing the malediction.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

Also, maybe a 0 tick, or 1 tick skill that allows a hunter to, from anywhere else in the area (except indoors or targeting indoors) fire an arrow that can hit the target and do a good amount of damage. Something akin to call lightning. 1 or 2 ticks if it is strong, 0 ticks if it is weak.

Up to 8 hits on a target, 1 per pulse (think immolation), on a target. Removes from camouflage. Two round lag if hunter is attacked during a barrage. Diminished likelihood of hitting target if in a forest or swamp, highly likely to hit on roads, plains, water, not usable in cities (line of sight) or under water.

Things I would recommend to make them better...give an edge to allow an aerial shot to tell you where the flying shifter landed.

Observe should up aerial shot damage exponentially so those two skills don't seem worthless.

Bleeding damage from timed attack should not also be the same bleeding damage as other hunter maledicts, they seem to conflict.

Stalker of the wilds seems to fail every single time in caves...

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

Here is my humble suggestion:

Give hunters dual wield. That alone would make them much, much more competitive.

You could mess around with flashier bow type stuff, but I think the reason hunters are so weak is because they give up the classic melée class advantage (dual wield) and don't get the burst/malediction/damage reduction potential that the other single wield classes get.

So there's my Santa Zulg 2011 request: give hunters dual wield

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

Add the following skills.

1) Barrage: A small flurry like attack that sends multiple shots but you get no attacks (But still defend with the bow) for 2 rounds.

2) A third attack with the bow at higher levels.

3) A parting shot with the bow.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

I think we can agree that this niche expertise really isn't that powerful or seeing the light of day to any extent so some tweaks can be made to help them out. Considering the huge amounts of coal dished out thus far, hopefully it's not too long either. This might get a bit long-winded since I'll go over the skills and then the class as a whole.

1. Archery itself I think should be harder to defend against. I know they cannot be parried but dodging arrows is not exactly easy coming from a skilled archer. Given that you only get two hits anyways, it should land a lot more against dexterous characters. Archers can literally hit birds in the sky and running gazelles on the plains....why can't they hit a near point-blank arial? Not sure if this equates to shifter forms like the shark landing most attacks but when your attacks don't land (especially given poison/flame arrows), it blows.

2. Poison Arrow seems pretty lackluster, even with the edge. You're wasting a command for a small chance to land a weak poison. I know it helps if you're fighting something terribly hard and want to stop healing but it should be more of an impact in PvP. Maybe a more damaging, shorter duration that is incurable? Maybe a longer lasting version (like plague duration) and harder to cure? Compare it to the "poison" spell of an AP, it's a lot weaker because it has to actually land in combat beyond just requiring combat AND make the save. Edges to make it plague or add the "sickness" effects would be neat.

3. Not entirely sure if it does or not since it has been awhile but bait should work on anyone you're fighting. Out of all the ranger expertises, I would think the Hunter would be best suited for group combat and think it should more of a focus for the class in general.

4. Rapid shot I think should get expanded or maybe have a new skill at level 45 to let them hit all those who fight them called multi-shot. Lining up multiple arrows they could hit all or maybe a small limit of targets aiming at them every round. I know this is incredibly hard in real life but this is a game I mean come on, you supposedly can use your bow *underwater*. I'm thinking kind of like the area attack ability of bloodlust at 45. Again, they already get a maximum of two attacks anyways so I hardly think this would be crazy - it's basically changing and splitting dual-wield and third attack across the targets you fight. Maybe a toggle to turn on rapid or multi-shot, so you're limited to two attacks to a single target or one attack to multiple targets.

5. Flaming Arrow is alright, I kind of wish it had an "impact" damage edge like a small explosive or something. The damage and duration on it is incredibly low already, why not add some "umph". I don't think it stops resting either which would be a nice effect.

6. Observe I think needs some boosting. The equivalent to this skill is martial trance or stalking, both of which are extremely better than this skill considering the edges and/or final affects, as well that you don't have to be in the wilds. I think observing should add STSF type dodging of command effects or increase resistance penetration (going through a/b/s/stone/sanc/etc). It'd be nice to actually have a shot against your a/b/s gorilla. Having done 10+ observers on someone with a 24 int ranger, it was completely lackluster in what I got out of that. It's not exactly fun to sit for a long time, when they can very likely leave or spot you or whatever all for a small boost when an equivalent like stalking let's you go anywhere hiding and instantly kill someone.

7. Aerial Shot was kinda "bleh" considering the huge limitation. One of your final skills can only be used on a very small amount of the population in a small circumstance. Most shifters either flew out of the zone before you could fire it off in chase and I never noticed anything stopping them from just reverting/recalling or even flying away quickly after the fact. I would think the stun would at least last longer (spinebreak equivalent?). I don't know the specific effects on the character beyond damage but it seemed pretty bad. Considering most mages have some form of a/b/s later on, it seemed basically useless against those targets when falling out of the sky and crashing into the ground should do a lot more.

8. Stalker of the wilds....ok I'm not sure who came up with this but come on, really? You sacrifice your observer bonus to basically "follow" someone? Unless this has been significantly changed it was basically useless considering most don't stay in the wilds long enough for it to matter and chasing someone by yourself was a whole lot easier. Someone took a step out of the woods and it was over. Stalker of the lazy amirite?! Anyways, I think this ability should grant you the equivalent of pounce. Now hold on a minute, I'm betting you're thinking "hell no!" but think about it. Hunters are not exactly your "killer" rangers anyways - nothing is really stomping someone from just walking away (especially considering you don't have entangle) and you're sure as hell not killing anyone anytime soon with two attacks. Hunters and archers are trained to not let their prey escape and I think this would perfectly help this expertise. All of your abilities scream "keep them there long" because nothing is immediately scary. You're basically a strange shaman equivalent without the animist things like primordial vengeance/etc to keep them there. This is a level 38 ability and it stops one of the core class features, it NEEDS more. After toying around with this on two separate hunters it quickly became a skill I never used again.

9) Precision seemed fine but the lack of higher average bows was generally disappointing anyways. There's only a single bow above average 26 I know of (got a running list of about 20) and it was restricted to non-evils and non-ragers. Most aren't even average 21. There's no cool humansunder, thunderlance, snake whip, etc equivalent - and some of the harder ones to get are pretty terrible (encampment and arial mines comes to mind). There's a pretty small pool of bows anyways. You only get two attacks and you're giving up significant offensive capability for this....nothing wrong with hitting harder on those hits.

10) Timed attack seemed ok but I wish it could be done with the bow. Same goes for dervish dance, can't remember if it did or not but it would be nice if it could. Considering most people leave anyways (again, problem with escaping foes) it'd be nice if it wasn't so obvious as you sat there.

Few more class observations:

-I really think hunters should function the best outside of the wilds. A hunter goes where the prey goes and I understand this is a ranger class but functionally outside I think they should handle it the best from a combat perspective. Not sure how this equates to game mechanics (wilderness familiarity partial in non-wilds?) but it would definitely make this more attractive. I know a lot of rangers like the mid-ranks because that is when people are actually in the wilds but it'd help the "fun" factor of this expertise in the late game considering the only extended time they're in the wilds for observe/etc is the Volcano, Skeletons or the Refuge. Catching someone in the wilds can mean death for most rangers but a hunter takes time and/or dumb opponent. Let mountaineer beastmaster's bearcharge some schmuck to death in the wilds or do unspeakable ambushes with ease, but the hunter needs something here.
-Let "imbue weapon" work on bows. It seriously sucks when a ranger with a healing staff tanks better than an archer which is primarily one of the functions of the class. I remember being a level 40 arial archer with maxed skills watching a felar ranger lower level tank better and do significantly more damage. Can't remember the specifics of "fashion bow" either but I remember it not being the greatest considering you can get some pretty crazy staffs on wood-elf rangers.
-A new ability I think that would severely help the class would be the ability to shoot someone outside of your room. Like "aimedshot Zulg east" that lands a random body point. I remember back in the day the discussion of this being hard to code but couldn't it just be like a pseudo call lightning? You would think that since you can shoot a bird high in the air that you could shoot someone a few feet away. In situations like defending a cabal, it'd make it a whole more interesting and actually give them a small shot against a typical retriever or even someone running away down eastern.


Hopefully this wasn't too much to ask for but I'd like to see hunters get buffed. They are a seriously cool idea for the game and think it would be beneficial to see more of them from a gameplay and roleplaying standpoint. Right now I'd put them on par with trapper thieves before traps had effects - great idea but in reality, pretty terrible and unfun. Add in you're already limited to the wilds for effectiveness which is pretty boring at hero (unless ya get extra terrains like Paralouit), there is a reason you don't see hero hunters barely at all.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

Request 1)
Having played a few, mostly back in the beginning of neo-rangers, I could not help but be totally miffed when a polearm spec warrior 'entrapped' my bow!

As the bow attack cannot be parried, only dodged and shield blocked I would ask that the abiliy to 'entrap' as a means of disarming the bow be disabled. Strip I get, getting in close to swat at it as an orc or with a sword to disarm I get too but 'entrap' just doesn't fit.

Request 2) Can we just make headshot have a variable lag like bash or bearcharge? Just because hunters have no semi-reliable lag because bearcharge for a hunter DOESN'T lag at all. Cheers

So long, and thanks for all the fish!