I was inspired by Baerinika's Fort Purge to post an opinion here. Take it or leave it, it's just my two cents. I've seen others post in the past with the same viewpoint, but only after I have tried it with several chars can I say that I think it's the way to go.

Play one (mortal) character. Pick something. Anything. Dark-elf Necro Scion? You go! Storm Paladin Fortress? Yeehaw! But stick to it.

I'm a *terrible* person for doing stuff like coming up with an interesting (at least to me) role idea and, after having one rough day with my current char, I just "roll up the lowbie" for my new idea. ALWAYS with the intent of "just practicing skills (or getting empowered) and getting out of the low levels".

The problem (sort of a problem, anyways) is that I inevitably make that big score. The axe-spec wannabe cloud giant that stumbles on a pk on eastern road and scores a noremove two-headed pickaxe with diamonds. The outlander shaman that finds a really good group and gets to level 25 in 10 hours.

Then I'm hooked. My "main char" is no longer very interesting. The new guy is definitely the one that, when I get home from work and have settled down, I want to play. The thought of playing the (old) "main char" makes me go bleh.

People, don't do it. You might have 2, 3, 4 bad days in a row with your "main char". If it's so bad, just delete. Then start that new char. Don't punk out on your cabalmates who keep wondering when you're going to show up to help them.

I'm not advocating mass deletions. No, what I'm advocating is playing one character at a time. Ideally, your current "main char" will be so fun that you don't *want* to delete him/her. Yes, this means playing through the rough patches when your Imperial Hero thief has 3 scions, 2 outlanders (that he can see), and 5 Maran/Acolytes in range without any Imperials on. It also means that (hopefully) those same Fort players, Scion players, Outlander players, etc. are all playing THEIR *only* char, as opposed to being that Imperial bard that you USED to be able to count on as competant backup but hasn't shown up in 2 weeks.

When I was playing Meagara, there were times I'd literally be shaking before I even logged in, because the way things had been, I *knew* that Zilopza and the Scion gang were going to be on, have my item, and I'd probably have to try hit-and-run tactics all night. There were times I thought about just playing a lowbie instead. It'd be easier, and maybe I could play Meagara when Fort's numbers were back on the upswing.

I said screw that, showed up each night (when I could), and ended up becoming Marshall after a while. Then I started interviewing whenever I could (with or without the Orb - when the odds became something that wasn't completely ridiculous, I'd take a stab at retrieval), and inducting the worthy (or so it seemed) applicants.

Before you know it, people were complaining on Dio's about too many Fort people.

I think a big part of this is the whole "help the underdog" mentality. That's fine and all, but if less people jumped ship and swam to another ship, there would be less underdog crap in general.

Just my take. Feel free to disregard!

While I know that not *every* char that got demoted is off playing something else, I bet a good percentage of them are. I don't think all of those people played a char to a decent level, got inducted into a cabal/empowered/etc. and then all suddenly lost internet access for weeks, or stopped playing CF completely. Some? Sure. But not all.

I'm going to reiterate my plea - pick one char and play it until it's dead! Maybe death by age. Death by con loss. Death by "this char isn't fun anymore."

But be sure the char isn't fun anymore.

Oh, one other thing on this topic. I don't speak for the Immstaff (or anyone but myself) here, but if I, personally, see a player login as one char, see that things aren't good*, and logout to play a different char...well, that's not a rules violation, but I personally have a problem with it, and so if there is ever a situation where "benefit of the doubt" or "maybe/maybe not for rp reward/quest form/skill/etc." you'll always end up on the "no" end for my vote. Just how I see it. Other imms may not have a problem with it, though!


* "Things aren't good" can mean you are outnumbered, or you are overly-numbered, or you can't find a group, or you located a pickaxe that your other char who happens to be an anti-paladin needs/wants, so-on and so-on.

You have a problem with people logging off when their entire pk range is friends?

I can sort of understand that, but I'll still ask, why do you dislike that?

Basically I see it as poor roleplay. You intended to be on as your hero Outlander (for example). You log on, see that your whole pk-range is nothing but Outlanders and uncaballeds that you have no real RP reason to hunt. You have the scales, the codex, and any other cabal items that Outlander is currently about taking.

So nothing to do, might as well logout, right?

Sure, except there are plenty of things to do.

Organize that big ol' Outlander hero-range, and go take down some big anti-outlanderish mob (demon in arboria if you want simple, something in an area explore if you want something more challenging).

Go preach in/around the towns of the world about how reliance on the enslaving coins is making them weak. Or, if you're a priest, preach about the greatness of your god/the ancients/whatever.

Good/Neutral - go help lowbies/newbies in naturish areas, and preach to them while you help about how civilization is a Bad Thing (tm).

Evil - go torment lowbie goodies out leveling somewhere (don't be a jackass and steal their kills etc...just RP with them about how they should turn from their lightwalking ways).

Gather preps. Got all the preps you need? Ask your cabalmates if they need anything (as Meagara, I would go gather sacks of 25 black roots each, for the various warriors within the Fort, if I had "nothing better to do.")

Talk to cabal applicants.

Help out lower-level cabalmates.

There's plenty of stuff I didn't list. The point is, be your character.

Granted, the above things are *not* why some people play CF. Many play solely for the pvp combat. And that's fine. I just don't consider those chars to be wonderfully roleplayed. Which is where a lot of the extra-perk-type-stuff comes into play. Hence my statement that I, personally, would vote "no" on it.

Need another reason to stick around? People tend to, currently, login/off at varying times. Maybe the Outlander hero in the above example has only 8 people in pk, and 5 of them are Outlanders. Then a lich/mummy/badass AP char logs in. Sorta changes things instantly, doesn't it? Now (if you logged off immediately) you're playing a lowbie while your 4-5 cabalmates could REALLY have used you against this fearsome foe.

Now I understand, people get bored. That's fine. I'm just saying if you're playing CF and have a char that you truly enjoy playing, you should try to get enjoyment out of every aspect of that char.

Just my $.02.

I seem to have this addiction to playing the underdog, some have pointed out I'll have two opposite cabaled chars,
and largly I end up trying to play the underdog character,
Why you wonder would I do that? Generally I find a couple things atleast 30% of this horde of "friends" are said bandwagon people on for the ride, not only are they generally a hazard to you in pk but if there are enough of them, they will go off and do their own private thing with 1 or two other Fortress or Outlander* members.
I also find myself absolutly hating to be absolute 1 against 12
4 Marans 4 ragers 4 outlanders 1 Scion < Me but I'd rather face those odds and hope for that one other scion who might log on who can turn the tide against atleast a few people and we can generally both enjoy our log in by having someone to talk to. As bandwagon hordes are generally in mass poor Rpers especially if your the enemy.
So I can't say I agree, and as for going and slaying huge mobs after getting all the cabal items, eh usually people don't have that kinda time, or don't know the area these days.
I don't feel as though my roleplay is hampered much by me not playing my character consistantly, unless I end up as a leader then definatly delete if boredom sets in.
And lastly no I won't log into a huge range my of my fellows and log out, but I will log out fairly quickly if I log in solo and my entire cabal logs in 15 minutes later. Ug. Usually I find the range will quickly empty out as well blerg.

Sorry you had to read that long rant, but I dunno for some reason I guess I am strongly pvp oriented but I can't say I don't enjoy me some RP? And I fail to see how huge hordes of your allies can be fun.

I should preface this whole response by stating the fact that I DO think it is worse to logout because you're outnumbered than to logout because you have too many allies in range.

You make some good points in your "rant" (your word, not mine, I thought it was actually pretty constructive ).

*Most* of those points are things I'd address with "SEE??? This is why having more than one char is BAD!" Let me explain:

1. "Bandwagon people who are along for the ride..." may be new to the game or learning...let them learn from you! If THEY have only one char, and YOU have only one char, you want to teach them everything you can so that they will become a better ally.

2. "...they are generally a hazard to you in pk..." This shouldn't really be an issue if you were thinking of logging to play an underdog.

3. "...if there are enough of them, they will go off and do their own private thing with 1 or two other (cabal) members..." This may happen to you *because* you are the sort to logoff and go play a different char. Characters gravitate toward other chars they know they can count on. Be that guy.

4. Being the underdog 1 v. 12 is tough, I'll definitely give you that. It can be very much not fun. But you make the point that any minute, that one ally that you can count on might log in. As Meagara I used to deal with a pk range with 4 empire, 3 scion, and 3 evil outlanders (at that time, the scions and evil outlanders would group and come kick my ass together). I dealt with it by making friends with good aligned tribs (or outlanders), interviewing apps, and that sort of thing, until the odds evened out a bit (or by trying to pick one off via summon, but that was always tricky since shamen don't have a lot of good ways to seal a kill).

5. "Bandwagon hordes are generally poor roleplayers" that's the point I'm making, actually...if you logon/off based on the situation your char faces (outnumbered or whatever), I see it as poor roleplay, and you're right, generally those sorts are the type that don't roleplay as well. I honestly believe that's because they don't have a deep connection to one char (instead they have slight connections to 3 or 4 or more).

6. "...slaying huge mobs after getting all the cabal items, usually people don't have that kinda time..." If they tell you they don't have that kind of time, then you know they'll be quitting soon, which means you won't outnumber the enemy so much, which is what you want, right?

7. "...or don't konw the area these days..." Never a better time to re-learn an area than when you grossly outnumber the opposition, right?

8. I can *definitely* understand the leadership-boredom thing. I've had more cabal leaders than I can count and each one can start to be a grind, as you've got more and more and more folks bothering you as apps. I STRONGLY BELIEVE that this would be less of an issue if folks stuck to one char at a time. As it is now, you see people playing a level 30 elf ranger who see a guy like Kanaev login and quit to login as their scion app. So Kanaev gets to deal with that. If, instead, elf rangerguy stuck with *either* scionapp or elf rangerguy, Kanaev's leadership duties wouldn't be so harsh (scionapp would have already been spoken to, for instance, if he played that char and that char alone).

9. Don't you hate when you log in as a powerful char and 15 minutes later your entire cabal logs in? Again, if people played one char at a time, this wouldn't happen.


In the end, this is sorta a chicken or the egg type of situation. You don't like the bandwagoners and the people who login as soon as they see others logging in. I don't either. But then you essentially say "look, I do it to." (I used to, too.) It's one of those things where you either accept that "everyone does it, so I do it too" or decide to try to change it by changing how you yourself play.

To only one character is that it takes that judgement call out of your hands.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen one cabal totally dominating, and the members of that cabal are bitching on CB about how outnumbered they are. A lot of the players are just not good at making these determinations, for whatever reason -- they assume every person they don't know is a member of the enemy cabal, etc.

I've done plenty of this in the past. The whole preaching, helping others, gathering preps for other people, and while the other players might enjoy it, I get little-to-no satisfaction from it, because more often than not, these actions go unnoticed, and unrewarded.

This tends to happen to characters who aren't as "fun" to watch, because they aren't PK gods (pun intended). The people who ARE watching all the time, are the people you interact with and can actually see all the time (other players, not Imms). So the characters I would deem as low-risk, low-pk-ratio, etc. who don't have awesome AP axes with 150 charges, or are a Vindicator with 100 criminal kills, or a Scion conjurer who nightgaunts anything that moves and racks up 100 kills, etc. don't get as much attention. Not by a long shot.

Do I have a solution? Of course I do. And it's a solution that's been mentioned in the past and likely just been blown over. But I hope someone will actually listen, and actually take into consideration, and actually implement (something similar):

LET OTHER PLAYERS GIVE OTHER PLAYERS "IMM" COMMENTS.

* Wow, John Doe just wasted me bad at the inner guardian of Empire along with two other Fortressites, and they left everything behind. Great sportsmanship!

* I inteacted with Anna Marie today, and she was preaching to me about her "God". I don't really care, but it was cool that she tried.

* Mr. Experienced Warrior took me all around this area that I had never seen before, taking his time to really teach my newbie butt. Thanks a bunch!

* Okay okay. This shaman has repeatedly owned me the last several days. This is one buff dude. I like that he tries to roleplay with me after he kills me--and also likes to leave a lot of my armor behind.

* This guy full-sac'ed me... Again. What an A-Hole.

* This chick is gutsy! We have the fetish, and there's five Tribs on, and she keeps coming anyways! Even though she is a criminal! Mucho gusto! (whatever that means)



And so forth. Let other players write stuff. This should be a priveledge. Everyone should get it, starting from level 1. The date, time, hours of the character should be recorded, as well as the hours, level and name of the character writing the comment. Imms could also utilize this to see if their followers or cabalmates are doing good things, or bastard things. If someone abuses, take the command away.

All comments should be viewable on the PFB.

Most recently we've had the Tribunal who logs in and wants his entire PK range and quits.

With your stuff they'd just spam "YOU IS FUKZER!" over and over and over in someone's history. Or just repeatedly spam "FULL LOOT ASSHOLE!". Or "I killed you!". Or any number of other stupid ####.

From a coding/maintenance/PBF standpoint. The Imm comments have a limit as to how much can be put in there, and we come close to filling it as is just with our comments. It's not simple or easy to add more, and being the guy who actually does that coding...I don't want to do this

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

Where players could add comments with either a timer (you can add 1 comment every hour real time) or by paying a price in in game currency (level dependant?). Perhaps something that isn't tied in with the imm comments, but rather is a seperate file? Limit it to 80 characters (one line) or something? Sure if you had 10000 gold to burn, or wanted to spend 100 hours doing it, you could spam other players "reputation" file with garbage, but I think this wouldn't be a big problem. If it's an issue with pfile size or whatever, that I understand. I'm not married to the idea either way, I just wanted to suggest some solutions to your coding problem. Wouldn't it be easier to spin off the history into an easily accessible, but separate file from the pfile? I don't really know, just shooting off random suggestions.

>Where players could add comments with either a timer (you can
>add 1 comment every hour real time) or by paying a price in in
>game currency (level dependant?). Perhaps something that
>isn't tied in with the imm comments, but rather is a seperate
>file? Limit it to 80 characters (one line) or something?
>Sure if you had 10000 gold to burn, or wanted to spend 100
>hours doing it, you could spam other players "reputation" file
>with garbage, but I think this wouldn't be a big problem. If
>it's an issue with pfile size or whatever, that I understand.
>I'm not married to the idea either way, I just wanted to
>suggest some solutions to your coding problem. Wouldn't it be
>easier to spin off the history into an easily accessible, but
>separate file from the pfile? I don't really know, just
>shooting off random suggestions.

The harder part is not the file itself or the size, it's being able to access it in game, being able to publish it via PBF, etc.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

.

If a staff member is putting unfair or incorrect comments on a character, an administrator can pull them aside and talk to them about it. If a staff member shows a history of poor judgement or malicious intent, they can be demoted or removed. Staff members have thousands of hours invested, and are very unlikely to throw it away abusing their ability to make PBF notes to pursue a grudge.

Players don't have any of that accountability. That's the long and short of what I think this would be a terrible idea in practice.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I play a character at a time...oh sure, I can have months...even years when I just delete them one after another. But sometimes, one can get out of the lot and usually, they are my favorite characters of all time. I'll always remember my Imperial Shaman, Sakard.

Each time I get nostalgic and browse on Dio's for Sakard and see how people respected him and would defend him being one of the underdog and always sticking for a fight, it makes my day. Of course, there would be days I'd be pissed and I'd log off to do some other things. But then, I'd get back another day and stir some #### up again.

Usually, those who stick through my mind are the underdogs and how they can handle those beatings again and again and how they are able to kill ass still. Of course, sometimes it's fun to be a group and hunt wild. It would happen with Sakard (Mostly in the end when the Empire was back) but sometimes it's fun to be there and try to defend the best way you can and if you die? Well, you tried. It's some sort of thrill that I like about CF. May be just a game but sometimes you get some shot of adrenalin that keeps you playing again and again, doing some gutsy stupid stuff and just...regear afterward heh.

t