I took some sleep before I decided to post. Right now I am still inredibly feeling down.. practicaly hurt, to be honest. The last seemingly 6 hours of my characters life were just seemingly constant jabs by immortals at my character as if provoking me to delete. I can understand the immslay(even though I was in no position to die and my internet died on a fight I did not provoke and having worded and running to a secluded place I did not make it to another another contenant.. i had partially believed I was either immslayed or the bleeding got me when I could log back on. A log now proves my suspician that some imm decided to use this as another opportunity to smack my character).

I shrugged that off. I got most pieces back other than my preps. I prayed about why I no longer had edge options to basically be told i'm not a well-rounded character. I'm just some caballes no purpose char who didn't deserve edges because I don't earn them the 'normal' ways. And that I am just big groups muter that kills at laughable odds and continuesly kill ppl at 8v1 situations.

That one 8v1 situation was only to regain the codex from zesam who interrupted a purpose we were all together for. That purpose was aran'gird. We had to pull out of aran'gird so the imperials would stay with us. Get the codex. And return. I see nothing wrong with it. They knew we were down there. Someone sighted us if I recall so they went to raid. They knew it was coming.

I raided fortress solo only to have the orb crumbled on me twice and an echo. I no longer saw solo raiding for 45 minutes and wasting all my preps in the process as a good use of my time only to have that outcome. So I was always looking for groups to raid with and then defend have fun defending the orb. What is wrong with that.

I'm not seeing, 'laughable' odds. If joining an orc and bard against paladins with champion stand and utilizing tactics to nail the kills...is bad..

I didn't have any special powers. I was cabaless. I didn't reap the benefits of a cabal. No one had to be my ally. I don't see why you guys cared so much about me and my desire to raid the fortress and defend the orc village.

I got a glimpse of hell with this character. In all my time i've never been there. That was a highglight. And often in order to go with people like Hunsobo I had to drop my flag. Two of them were given falsely, by the way. Thus I got titled fearful of Law. If you watched my character enough to proclaim me fearful then i think I was watched enough to have my intentions known that I was all about destroying the fortress.

Then I after a long talk with Eshval after an rp session she tried to have with me following all this stuff where I lost one my hell items that I managed to regain after being immslayed I failed to see it. I was trying to have Foley write a note for me in response to Mendecirith's call of hope for darkened times. And also to do, as the boards have said to do, to clear my name and explain how the rumors of me being fearful of law is not correct. I had my throat clawed so I couldn't talk to him-lost my hell item-and had this bleeding affect that would screw over my duo. After everything that just happened to me, i was already rather depressed and didn't see this as any cool rp opportunity.

You imms know I am one of your consistant numbers throught all hours of the day nearly everday. I dedicate a lot of time. And it hurts when I try to play and you guys decide that you know Ciurehra better than I do. She was nearly 240 hours in a short amount of time. My previous chars all extended over 100 hours. These are all back-to-back chars. I dedicate A LOT of time and I am greatly hurt. It makes me not feel appreciated and that I shouldn't play the game if this is how I am going to be treated. I have more to say but I can't think of it right now. Sorry if this is garbled and such. I assume it will just be flamed anyway.

Well then looks like i'm going to have to find a way to haste myself other than having a duo'ed guardian angel to run amok with. We never did get to do the double elemantal, tabbies, and horde test did we? But I wasn't on the recieving end of any of the domination, good times. See you in the fields.

I really didn't have a problem with the ganking. It seemed to fit in with what you were going for. True, Acek hated it and thought you honorless, etc. But as a player, I can respect it. And yes, I was trying to goad you into another fight, one on one after I got ganked. Anyways, I hope you keep on playing.

I enjoyed our tangle at the fortress we had that one time. That was my favorite fight with you. Where I thought i had you then you nailed a critical blow that made me decide to hit the hills and you thought it best too.

Well, to echo Daevryn, the thing that irked me most was the terribly obvious "team black-hat" rp. Sure, you had a few snappy comebacks for me (which paled in comparison to mine, of course. But you tried.) but most everything you were pat/prepackaged Scarabite wannabe rp lines. You wanted to slay the Fortress and sow chaos. Wooo. Creative.

Or was it the "team black-hat" sit-in-my-guild-usually-in-Hamsah if my master (it was lots of fun for me to explain to everyone that you were a slave of the orcs. I even talked about it with Gnashgaar. Y'know what? It was a better conversation than any I had with you. Even an ORC had mo' betta rp than you!) wasn't around. Then it was time to take the orb with our nice orc/muter/bard combo, or whatever you could gather together, take the Orb gang down some Forties, then gang them down again when they retrieved. Do you understand why that doesn't garner respect?

And... I think you said here or on the other boards that it was some brilliant tactical thing or something to take the orb, because you knew that our invincible paladin horde would come fight/defend/recall to Voralian and get bashed down/whatever. That's because we're paladins... and we all have at least a modicum of balls. Wait... that's what always irked me most: you seemed really gutless (maybe it's just a muter thing, though. I did run around with Enarn, so I'm probably biased) in a way that I would never think a Scarabite would be.

Also: the ganging/full looting/full saccing/good-only gear hoarding. I remember when I wasn't able to save Yikoti from you two. Then you took all his stuff and sacced most of it. WTF is with that? Why? I'm sure that impresses Cyradia TONS. You or whomever you called to do it full-looted SO MANY people when you just ganged them the #### down, it was sickening. It's one thing for me to not be able to kill a ####head like you, it's one thing for me to die to you, it's one thing for me to not be able to save my friends from you, but then you full-sac them? Lame. Tres lame.

Here's where I have to admit that you're a great pker, were pretty decent with your class, knew how to do some stuff, and are a much better pker than I am. However, I don't think you would have been noticeable in the least if you didn't have a giant-sized bashing ally. Those are tough enough on their own.

Also re: champ's stand. It's way powerful, but has this huge limitation: you can't move out of the room. If you can't figure out a way to make me want to move, then I'm just boggled.

Damn, this is terribly long. I'll admit, you really got under my skin, but mostly because you were paper-thin in and out of duo, and you treated my friends like garbage. Very glad you're gone. Good luck with the next.

I remember when I stalked you forever in you guild then you disappear.
I, of course, find you again with your orc buddy.
I make my attempt that I took so long and waited patiently for.
Then after I flee, because I do not want to get gang bash/neuroed to death, you start saying that you are going to gang me down if I stalk you again?
What kind of evil RP is that?

"I'm evil so...I will gank you into the ground if you ever try to come after me again." (Not a quote obviously, that is just what I got out of it)

How else am I supposed to kill you if the only time I ever see you alone is in your guild?

nt

Why would an evil person have to justify being dishonorable and cowardly?

If you want to say he played a bad SCARAB, I'd be inclined to agree. But you expect a drow transmuter to give you a fair fight, while you're trying to stalk him to get a one shot assassinate on him?

What the hell is wrong with you people? "Please hold still while I stalk you 15 times then assassinate you, and don't threaten to have your orc buddy bash the crap out of me, that'd be unfair."

Why should he *WANT* you to kill him?

*boggle*

>Why? I'm sure that impresses Cyradia TONS.

I assume the Cult of the Scarab^tm would like to disavow all association with this character.

At its best, Scarabdom is epitomized by (non-team-evil) stylish evil badasses, and I'm sorry, this just wasn't.

I never said I was a scarab. I merely said I would destroy the fortress. I know cyradia wants solo-killers who are witty. I ran with empire for starters and various other people. So ppl can stop thinking Ciurehra was a scarabite. She went to cyradia's shrine at the least for she was an evil god who most closely resembled destruction and might take some sacrifices

Despite my misgivings about Ciurehra in-game, she brings some questions to mind.

On the one hand, earning PK-related edge points by killing your criminal buddies is clearly something that shouldn't happen. The code currently doesn't prevent it, so you had to intervene. Fair enough. Was it only the PK-related edges you removed, or all of them? Did the staff suspect she was orchestrating the mercy kills just to get edge points, or would that even have mattered?

Then there's the title, voice-nerfing and other Eshval stuff. Let's suppose Ciurehra had acted exactly the same throughout her life, but without any expressed religious leanings and without ever trying to associate with the Cult. Would she have received the same "punishment"? Or were the consequences she suffered, mild though they were, due to the fact that she was role-playing one thing and "doing" something else?

To pose a hypothetical, suppose I were to roll a neutral evil drow transmuter that 1) hated the Fortress, 2) enjoyed killing people, 3) had absolutely no compunction about ganging, 4) did not hesitate to suicide in order to remove a flag, and 5) made no effort to join a cabal. Then I hooked up with other, random uncaballed evils (or caballed evils if they're willing) and killed as many people as possible, entirely in keeping with my "enjoys killing" role (which seems reasonable for a drow). Would my character be treated similarly to Ciurehra, or did she do something the staff found especially irritating?

>Was it only the PK-related edges you
>removed, or all of them?

Should just have been the PK-related credit scaled back to where it should've been.

>Then there's the title, voice-nerfing and other Eshval stuff.
>Let's suppose Ciurehra had acted exactly the same throughout
>her life, but without any expressed religious leanings and
>without ever trying to associate with the Cult. Would she
>have received the same "punishment"? Or were the consequences
>she suffered, mild though they were, due to the fact that she
>was role-playing one thing and "doing" something else?

I think the character would have drawn less unpleasant scrutiny were that the case, though probably still some (such as it is).

>To pose a hypothetical, suppose I were to roll a neutral evil
>drow transmuter that 1) hated the Fortress, 2) enjoyed killing
>people, 3) had absolutely no compunction about ganging, 4) did
>not hesitate to suicide in order to remove a flag, and

Without saying no (explicitly or implied) to that point, I'd be interested in the justification and how it meshes with the rest of that. For example, I think there are a lot of sensible evil concepts that place little value on the lives of others, but few that lightly place little value on their own life. I mean, the character doesn't have the metagame awareness that you're going to get sick of playing them way before you run out of con, so it stands to reason that if they're giving up a chunk of their life without a fight there has to be a fairly good reason for it.

>5) made
>no effort to join a cabal. Then I hooked up with other,
>random uncaballed evils (or caballed evils if they're willing)
>and killed as many people as possible, entirely in keeping
>with my "enjoys killing" role (which seems reasonable for a
>drow). Would my character be treated similarly to Ciurehra,
>or did she do something the staff found especially
>irritating?

In the history of there being gang sizes tracked, I haven't seen the kind of numbers for mass ganging being put up that this character (and others) have put up in the last week or so. I think that's always going to draw a certain amount of attention. Some characters came out of that attention okay or doing better for themselves, others didn't.

All that being said, if you want to play a thoroughly unsavory character (which, I think even Ciurehra's player would agree Ciurehra was meant to be), I'm not sure gaining a title that a different character should view as a punishment is necessarily a punishment to you. I mean, ok, C suicides off a lot of flags. It's reasonable that C develops a rep for this kind of thing around the cities and guard precincts or what not. But, if in the character's mind this genuinely is the smart move, then who cares what other people think about it. If the character genuinely has no pride, courage, etc. and thinks nothing of mega-ganging everyone, a title about being a mega-ganger isn't really a punishment either. It's just what the character is, or how they are perceived, no?

>
>All that being said, if you want to play a thoroughly unsavory
>character (which, I think even Ciurehra's player would agree
>Ciurehra was meant to be), I'm not sure gaining a title that a
>different character should view as a punishment is
>necessarily a punishment to you. I mean, ok, C suicides off a
>lot of flags. It's reasonable that C develops a rep for this
>kind of thing around the cities and guard precincts or what
>not. But, if in the character's mind this genuinely is the
>smart move, then who cares what other people think about it.
>If the character genuinely has no pride, courage, etc. and
>thinks nothing of mega-ganging everyone, a title about being a
>mega-ganger isn't really a punishment either. It's just what
>the character is, or how they are perceived, no?
>

I'm just replying to quote this part, in hopes a lot more people will read it.
I'm barely mediocre as a killer and rp'er, but these stupid titles are, imo,
an awesome way to deepen a character's role. And anything is better
than crying on the boards. Almost anything.

>Should just have been the PK-related credit scaled back to
>where it should've been.

That seems reasonable.

>Without saying no (explicitly or implied) to that point, I'd
>be interested in the justification and how it meshes with the
>rest of that.

This touches on realism vs. game mechanics. Realistically speaking, you're right when you say most evil characters probably wouldn't be so cavalier about ending their own lives. Mechanics wise, though, there's a clear offensive disadvantage to being a criminal since many fights happen in cities, and in Thera, each death is not necessarily your last. If you know you're going to be raised from the dead right after you die, and you know that dying will improve your ability to fight your enemies, then it seems like a logical thing to do.

>In the history of there being gang sizes tracked, I haven't
>seen the kind of numbers for mass ganging being put up that
>this character (and others) have put up in the last week

Well, okay. My hypothetical blood-thirsty drow probably wouldn't be able to assemble such large groups even if I wanted to. So that, at least, wouldn't count against me. Note that I'm not saying I want to roll this character, or even that I'd approve of him/her. It's purely for the sake of argument.

>I'm not sure gaining a title that a
>different character should view as a punishment is
>necessarily a punishment to you.

Agreed. But the intent is that it be a negative thing. There are lots of things that characters could be expected to develop a "rep" for. Like dying all the time, or being a total pushover in PK. Occasionally those titles are given out, but it usually takes a shamanman to pull it off. Why are they not more common? Because nobody on staff wants to punish someone who just isn't very good at PK, dies alot, and never kills anybody. Whereas in Ciurehra's case, the staff does want to "punish" someone for continually suiciding to ditch flags.

I just didn't realize that was such a big deal. Now I do; lesson learned.

I think i took gloves and various other pieces(i didnt every have much room in my inventory) to see if they could be used for desecration. I never got around to it and later dropped them. They were what.. a pair of gloves and maybe one other piece

I'm learning a whole lot with this character, so while I hate full loots, I don't get too pissed about it. And honestly, an elf dying in the middle of orc village, what could I expect? (rhetorical)

I hated you too, but it was pretty much IC. Had no idea you where there that last time we fought, been years since I've seen those pets. Also had a good laugh actually using all those awesome prayers I usually just carry around for show.

Anyway, read what Daev said up there somewhere. I think you could have had fun with a title like that...any attention that dosen't end with an align change or 'denied access' isn't all bad

See you.

That was a lot better showing on your part then mine. I was looking around for you and I hate the Sands of Sorrow. When I did find you I didn't have time to put up barrier or preps really, rather just struck. Went horribly on my part. I thought i was dead when I tried to flee like 4 times and kept panacking hoping to god I go out before the next round which was going to be a wrath round. Somehow I pulled that off. Kind of like when I was superbly lucky malleability dodges a rake from Reida's lion when I was at 64 hps when i tried solo and fort with her and medecerith defending. I had my fair share of luck!

I have calmed down and can see where poeple can be mad, I suppose. What you went against were tough odds. But i'll also tell you that 90percent of the time when you came to try and regain i never put up barrier/any protections. Maybe corporeal harden at max. That left me very vulnarable. I give mad props to Vassten/Mersiliat a few nights ago who used a VERY smart tactic that had my panicking. They lightning bolted me for two oblits to knock my hps so low I had to word teleport. Now, had they tiemd that better during a raid situation i would have died. Had you all targetted me over gnashgaar(which i knew you would do every time) with your wrath spam.. I may have died. Considering I would be "wrathed" so no recall. and if I didn't get that the altar could have screwed me over just as much.

I sit in the hamsah guild when I want to not be in duo and talk to people. I sit in the hamsah guild when I have to attend to something online where I need a cushion of room to breathe. I have a problem where I like to be playing and i cant play 24/7 therefor sometimes I go idle but am still logged on.


I thought you had witty lines. My tells were all that bad, I didn't feel. My perception I guess I am seeing is I also didnt just eat a death. So perhaps saying, "did you honestly think you could have defended and succeeded?" was ok to me. I'm sorry if you felt offended. I got feedback regarding pbf with Ajcruzhr that for evils saying, "good fight" was bad. I tried to switch it up and throw out those more evil lines. I guess from now I won't do that type of thing anymore.

I had never played a transmuter before. It was fun, they are powerful. They are also a support class. lets remember this. Though I bet if I were playing an Fort transmuter running around with you neuroing and hasting things wouldnt be as bad?

The things I looted from you ever were your shield(which I gave back and I told you i took to bribe you not to raid so i could finish doing something regarding to collecting of something) and I gave it back. The prayerbead I had as I knew you could desecrate with them(or so I figured) but I never got around to it so dropped them so I could hold more preps. I didn't full-loot like you think, I swear. And had I died i knew I was ready to be full-looted for the mere fact all my pieces were probably better than what the opposite person had.

You play a good paladin. I just hope sometime you might understand, as well as others, that some characters arnt going to follow the typical mold. This was my character, not anyone elses. I shouldn't have to be all respectful of my enemies when I hate them.

As far as tactical thing to take orb. It was. Thats what raid partys do. They raid and take item. Nail the kills on the defender. and then defend. Thos/Khargurlun/other imperials. I've seen them raid in numbers of 3 and higher. And they have centurions to sit on the defense to kill you if you come defend. I have no cabal powers and I used orc guards and a no_recall area spot in my favor. And when I had allies, of course I used them. Just as you would. I want you to understand my perspective sometime.

I will aslo admit your wrath almost killed me several times in the orc village regarding orc disease/plague I would get and not being able to word. I was in a dying siutation more than once I recall not far away north of akan hoping you didn't think to come look around.
Defending at the orcs was not as easy for me as I made it look. Well, until I got the sapphire periapt made it a little easier.

I took what I had available and used those resources. When I think back on it now. If it was such a big deal why was everyone so pro-active about it. If people declined and refused to aid me. Well Ciurehra would be striking as she could at a few others as well. But everyone I tried to alliance with was all hands down for raiding. I was quite suprised the empire gave me and gnashgaar the orb so many times so willing. I was waiting for them to decline so we might be able to start conflict. Those situations never occured.

Play on mendecirith. You have a lot going for you. And I am sorry if I jaded/ruined anything. That was not my intention, honestly. A lot of people say we don't play evils evil. I wanted to give it a go.

>What you went against were tough odds.

Yeah. In hindsight I've been kicking myself that we didn't run around and summon you/yours more. I've realized that what I'm most frustrated at is my utter lack of tactics besides co champ;co wrath gn;co wrath ciur

>I sit in the hamsah guild when I want to not be in duo and
>talk to people.

Pointless jab on my part. Sorry.

>I thought you had witty lines. My tells were all that bad, I
>didn't feel.

No, they really weren't. They were pretty good in that they got under my skin, and we could really go back and forth, rather venomously on my part, I'll admit. It was really frustrating when I altruismed the throat disrupt off Mersiliat and you said "oh good. I don't have to listen to your preaching". Just makes you say "ooooooh, I hate them!"

>Though I bet if I were playing an Fort transmuter running
>around with you neuroing and hasting things wouldnt be as bad?

Heh. Yes. I'm definitely guilty of enjoying that wonderful privilege. Now I know what my enemies were feeling.

>You play a good paladin. I just hope sometime you might
>understand, as well as others, that some characters arnt going
>to follow the typical mold. This was my character, not anyone
>elses. I shouldn't have to be all respectful of my enemies
>when I hate them.

Agreed. I guess my real problem is that I was always so frustrated when going against you and Gnashgaar because somehow me and mine were never together and focusing on one of you, for some bizarre reason, and that whomever I focused on could easily get away while the other covered them, while if I chased I'm out of champ's stand, or if Gnashgaar flees first he'll go heal and you can neuro me or flee and go duo. Or, more likely, I'd get my arm broken and lose my shield, not have my sanc up, or some other mistake on my part, and then I'd get one or two of my cabalmates killed.

>I've seen them raid in numbers of 3 and higher. And they have
>centurions to sit on the defense to kill you if you come
>defend. I have no cabal powers and I used orc guards and a
>no_recall area spot in my favor. And when I had allies, of
>course I used them. Just as you would. I want you to
>understand my perspective sometime.

Also agreed. I just wish the orcs had an item for us to take
I'd rather (as a priest with WoR) deal with Cents any day than being spinebroken by those damn guards.

>I will aslo admit your wrath almost killed me several times in
>the orc village regarding orc disease/plague I would get and
>not being able to word. I was in a dying siutation more than
>once I recall not far away north of akan hoping you didn't
>think to come look around.
>Defending at the orcs was not as easy for me as I made it
>look. Well, until I got the sapphire periapt made it a little
>easier.

I honestly did not know that. You did make it look very easy. I guess knowing that I did almost have you helps a bit. Yay for wrathspam! One-size-fits-all for evils.

>Play on mendecirith. You have a lot going for you. And I am
>sorry if I jaded/ruined anything. That was not my intention,
>honestly. A lot of people say we don't play evils evil. I
>wanted to give it a go.

I have to admit, you played a good evil. But when a bunch of people have ME defending them... it's just endlessly frustrating and makes you feel like #### when you're totally getting outclassed and unable to stop your friends from dying and getting stripped by lowbie orcs.

Thanks for the compliments. You've been much more civil than I've been. My apologies: sorry for the vitriol. I'm still very bad at handling defeat and looting, if that's any kind of excuse. Good luck with the next. Roll a fortie and help teach all the newbies!

THE LAST PERSON that plays this game that should be talking about respect is you. Please, remove your foot from your mouth and have a seat.

I interacted with this character. No, I did not like him... but whatever he did pales in comparison to anything that you have done. So... hop your ass right back off of that soap box and shut the hell up. Wow.

I don't know.

I read all of this and all I see is "This guy was an evil enemy of mine that ganged me down and was a general pain in the ass. You sir, are a jerk."

I mean, honestly, I'm sorta sick of the "honorable, protect your gear, hugs and kisses" type of evils I've seen around lately. I mean, imperials apologizing on the forums for ganging down paladins? Wtf.

I don't know that Ciurehra was the best example of my opinion of truly evil RP (or that I pull it off either), but if you don't *hate* your enemy's support muter then that muter is doing a terrible job.

And not for nothing, but you're certainly not avert to ganging yourself.

I mean, lets begin with this sentence :

Do you understand why that doesn't garner respect?

If I'm a drow support transmuter, why do you think I care about your respect? I'm just as likely to wait until you're convulsing, pop out of duo, one shot you and full loot all your shinies that are a royal pain in my butt. And that's fine, honor and drows don't mix.

If this char made any mistakes RP wise, it was going for Scarab and suiciding to people to remove flags. Scarab + support characters just don't go together. If he was random sphere magic evil transmuter #23 I think his RP was fine.

I liked having a transmuter on *my* side for once, though the fact that you were flagged occasionally (and other factors) really made me suspicious that you'd turn on me at some point. Paranoia? Probably.

I do have to agree with Waserax (it was Acek, not Mersiliat, which made me feel even worse about it) - I'm not big on kicking someone when they are down unless they really really pissed me off, and Acek always showed a lot of class and balls throughout all the times we fought.

However, Hunsobo isn't one to worry a ton about that, at least not openly.

Bottom line, I liked traveling with you a lot, and it's too bad that the stuff that happened with her got you down. I think you're a good player and hope you come back with a solid (imperial ) character.

Let's go through this as it relates to me specifically:

>I prayed about why I no longer had edge options to
>basically be told i'm not a well-rounded character. I'm just
>some caballes no purpose char who didn't deserve edges because
>I don't earn them the 'normal' ways.

I didn't field that pray, but I did take some edge back from you. I saw you'd gotten some for PK, but it turned out there that the PKs that pushed you over a threshold there were for killing your willing allies to remove their flags. I can't see any good reason that should be rewarded and I'll try to figure out a good way for it to not be in the future.

>And that I am just big
>groups muter that kills at laughable odds and continuesly kill
>ppl at 8v1 situations.

Well, that much is true. I only one 8v1 with Ciurehra but there were a number of 7v1s and equally over the top kills. This is one of the first characters that made me really feel like our gang-tracking system wasn't equal to the task of fully representing the sheer gangingness of it.

>I raided fortress solo only to have the orb crumbled on me
>twice and an echo. I no longer saw solo raiding for 45 minutes
>and wasting all my preps in the process as a good use of my
>time only to have that outcome. So I was always looking for
>groups to raid with and then defend have fun defending the
>orb. What is wrong with that.

It does crumble on its own after a short time, you know. I'm pretty sure no one intervened there. The only echo that I know of that you got in that situation was in direct response to a prayer to your god, who wasn't exactly wowed by the way that whole thing went down.

>Two of them were given falsely, by the way. Thus I got titled
>fearful of Law. If you watched my character enough to proclaim
>me fearful then i think I was watched enough to have my
>intentions known that I was all about destroying the fortress.

You suicided off a number of flags, at least three that I was personally online for and who knows how many more. You had this "I'm an evil badass" RP but you didn't really want all the consequences of that.

In the final analysis, it's pretty obvious that you're a veteran player. You know some tactics, you know some areas, etc. You should be capable of playing a character that actually adds something to the game beyond repeatedly super-ganging down some of the worst players and biggest newbies. On a good day, the RP of this character seemed to be "I'm on team evil and we wear black hats, and the people who don't wear black hats need to die.", and you didn't have a lot of good days. You did have one or two great moments, and I think that's really what makes the ####tiness and mediocrity of the rest of the character so hard to take -- you're obviously capable of producing something so much better, but for whatever reason you just didn't.

What is wrong about being super active about raiding fortress. I tried it solo once and, ok she wasnt wowed. I won't do that again. I had fun playing witht he orc village. When you have paladins with championstand my odds werent the best. I always wanted to raid/defend. I didn't tend to run with groups down the eastern road to strike anyone near. Perhaps a few times against Hielekekl maybe because the empire was getting destroyed by him. The fact is.. the fort decided to come face the odds. Ciurehra didnt mind. And they chose to come to village to get it back and die. If someone defends they choose to particiapate and the chance to be killed. I don't mind leaving an orc in varolian to bash a standing paladin who is going to defend. Why is it ok for for fortress to run around with Paladin/transmuter combo which can be very tough or run around with a healer and what I did was bad? I don't recall 7v1's. I killed each of the paladins solo except vassten. Again they choose to try us and knew we were going to defend.

because restinan was already going to knock him up. I just wanted to see how much damage I could do to an orc.

You wrote alot more here, so this seems like the more appropriate forum to discuss this stuff:

Something about you rubbed me the wrong way, even before you got the title. Just a couple little things- nothing major. First, when you, me and Hunsobo killed...Mersiliat?...you sort of gloated about it to him. Now, gloating is all well and good, but for us three NOT to kill him would have represented complete failure. So I'm not sure the gloating was really warranted. Then, you were always trying to recruit people to raid the fortress and/or gang down whoever came to defend, or offering to attach yourself to parties that were going to raid, even when no help was needed. Last, when we three were exploring Azhan and couldn't figure out how to get any further, you paused for a while and it seemed sort of obvious that you were either asking people OOC or consulting some sort of reference. You came back and were like, "I think we're supposed to do X- I'm not sure why it's not working".

Anyway, none of that is huge, but it motivated me to sort of distance myself from you even before you got the anti-Order title.

One I forgot- you toted around Bal'Talon just so "insert random Fort paladin" couldn't go get it. It annoys me when people do that.

She always wanted to raid and kill the fortress. I don't see how this is bad. This was what she wanted. She wasn't soft about it at all.

say the words. It didnt work. I read through every description.
I came back after that. I tried whispering/yelling anything. I went in every room. I came later with another group to explore and some necromancer had the key saying he did what we said at first. Which gives me speculations a little on the correct way.

It's just that Waserax, Ciurehra and Hunsobo against Mersiliat was such overwhelming odds. It's like beating a 3-year old at chess and talking trash about it. I'm not saying Mersiliat sucks or anything, it's just a nasty, nasty fight for him to attempt. Instead of gloating, I might have given him props for even engaging us in the first place. In a back-handed "evilish" way, of course.

So lets break this down.

1) So I'm not sure the gloating was really warranted.

A drow muter thats unwarrantedly arrogant. So far, par for the course.

2) Then, you were always trying to recruit people to raid the fortress and/or gang down whoever came to defend, or offering to attach yourself to parties that were going to raid, even when no help was needed.

A bored evil support character that doesn't care about honor and wants to support people. I don't see anything great about it, but I don't see anything wrong with it either.

3) Last, when we three were exploring Azhan and couldn't figure out how to get any further, you paused for a while and it seemed sort of obvious that you were either asking people OOC or consulting some sort of reference.

Or he could've been using the tell command. You know, whichever.

4) One I forgot- you toted around Bal'Talon just so "insert random Fort paladin" couldn't go get it. It annoys me when people do that.

Because hording hummingbird pendants and Bal'talon is new, unusual, etc.

So far, I've seen a slew of reasons why this was a mediocre, average evil character that isn't worthy of tattoo, title and quest forms. The only thing worth noting, that I've seen thus far, is the suiciding over flags thing, which isn't exactly uncommon.

I've not seen a single extraordinary thing that should've resulted in being singled out and messed with, other than "he's a veteran and made a mediocre character."

I wouldn't put "This character genuinely did something repeatedly, and got a title relating to it" in the category of singled out and messed with.

There's a little more drama and cry of martyrdom here than is genuinely merited.

Well here's the things :

1) Bad title.
2) Lost edges.
3) Imm slayed while on the other side of the game from the supposed attacker, in no threat of death, after losing link.
4) Attacked by Eshval, bitemark, lost items, lost speech.
5) General disdain even here for the character, which appears to be mostly unwarranted.

Thats on top of misflaggings that should have been removed.

I'm not saying its a cry of martyrdom, I am saying that the guy's being bandwagoned over what, mediocrity?

Further, and here's my point and the reason I specifically use the term singled out...

How many people suicide to remove flags?

How many people help others suicide to remove flags?

Is this far worse out of character roleplay than a Tribunal who doesn't have a corrupt role flagging people wrongly?

Is this far worse out of character, power gamey roleplay than level sitting with the hunt?

I say singled out not because I approve of his actions, merely because I see it every day on a million characters. I hear people bitch at me because I took three items from them, who are berserker villagers who are supposed to be supreme hardasses. I see people drown themselves to get rid of flags or starve themselves. I see people level sit at cheapshot or bash or the hunt or nightgaunt and try to land as many cheap kills as possible. I see the sphere bash giant who just runs around with a healer bashing people down, while being sphere strength. I see full loots, full sacrifices, etc. I see paladins who lie or otherwise don't live up to precedent expectations of courage and honor.

But I don't see those people getting nasty titles or being punished.

So my question to you would be, what'd this guy do so spectacular that makes him stand out from the others?

>1) Bad title.

Yup. But accurate.

>2) Lost edges.

Lost edge points for doing something that the edge system wasn't designed for (yet). If someone figured out a way to cheese up a bunch of commerce XP or whatever we'd probably revoke those points, too.

>3) Imm slayed while on the other side of the game from the
>supposed attacker, in no threat of death, after losing link.

As I understand it, the imm who had to make the call on that (not me) decided that the attacker was (reasonably, but incorrectly) believing that C was safely duo and giving up on the hunt when they otherwise had a reasonable chance of finding her.

I don't have all of the facts handy at the moment but I can't see any reason to assume this amounts to anything but normal linkdrop policing. Judgement calls are made there and sometimes they go in your favor and sometimes they don't.

>4) Attacked by Eshval, bitemark, lost items, lost speech.

Hell, that happens to a lot of people. I don't really know the story there, but I doubt it relates to any of the rest of this.

>5) General disdain even here for the character, which appears
>to be mostly unwarranted.

I'm allowed to choose who I disdain.

I can't see you, for example, creating a bland-at-best RP character who'd repeatedly engage in record-setting ganging. I mean, if your character's claim to fame is going to be that you brought more people to gang on one random guy than anyone else before you, at least have some style to it. I'm sorry, I think the better players can do better than that.

>Thats on top of misflaggings that should have been removed.

I don't think that's ever been established to be correct. I know you've played Arbiter/Tribunal enough to know that half the world thinks they're innocent even when they're clearly not.

>>3) Imm slayed while on the other side of the game from the
>>supposed attacker, in no threat of death, after losing link.
>
>As I understand it, the imm who had to make the call on that
> not me) decided that the attacker was (reasonably, but
>incorrectly) believing that C was safely duo and giving up on
>the hunt when they otherwise had a reasonable chance of
>finding her.

He (the rager) posted the log. He was in the village. C was in Seantryn Modan, as a transmuter, with a decent cashflow. I guess we could chalk it up to a terrible judgement call.

>I don't have all of the facts handy at the moment but I can't
>see any reason to assume this amounts to anything but normal
>linkdrop policing. Judgement calls are made there and
>sometimes they go in your favor and sometimes they don't.
>
>>4) Attacked by Eshval, bitemark, lost items, lost speech.
>
>Hell, that happens to a lot of people. I don't really know
>the story there, but I doubt it relates to any of the rest of
>this.

I have a trigger for "Eshval uncloaks her presence" to word me and quit out. Just better that way.

I see your points, but I think mine are more along the lines of why doesn't this happen more often. Not why *does* this happen .

I never did get the chance to pay you back. If memory serves me right, you got me in Drow City while Ranking too, either that or I saw you comming and got out.

I remember I was furious at this death because I thought I was 720 points TNL not 7206. This was also a low time with Tallanalas.

I thought your RP was a bit Cliche and unresponsive, but I didn't have any negative feelings toward you once I got over myself pity.
####################################################################
You tell your group 'West and North.'
A skeleton is covered with bleeding wounds.

<66%hp 100%m 100%mv 7206tnl>
You dodge a skeleton's chop.
A skeleton's chop MUTILATES you!
A skeleton parries your slash.
Your slash decimates a skeleton!
Crendil fades into existence.
Crendil's shocking touch misses a skeleton.
A skeleton is covered with bleeding wounds.

<58%hp 100%m 100%mv 7206tnl> cr
You yell 'Die, Ciurehra, you sorcerous dog!'
Ciurehra utters the words, 'qafsacandusar gayhunsouio'.
Your flesh grows painfully tender and soft.
A skeleton is covered with bleeding wounds.

<58%hp 100%m 100%mv 7206tnl> cro

Crendil utters the words, 'aepzguzz xzb'.
A skeleton is covered with bleeding wounds.

<58%hp 100%m 100%mv 7206tnl> You execute a cross-down parry and unleash a
powerful kick.
Your cross-down parry *** DEMOLISHES *** a skeleton!
A skeleton is covered with bleeding wounds.

<58%hp 100%m 100%mv 7206tnl> flee

A skeleton parries your slash.
A skeleton parries your slash.
Your slash maims a skeleton!
A skeleton parries your slash.
A skeleton is gushing blood.

<58%hp 100%m 100%mv 7206tnl>
>
You yell 'Die, Ciurehra, you sorcerous dog!'
Ciurehra utters the words, 'eugfjsh wjgqrz'.
Rending pain wracks your muscles with uncontrollable spasms!
Ciurehra's disruption === OBLITERATES === you!
That really did HURT!
You sure are BLEEDING!
A skeleton is gushing blood.

<10%hp 100%m 100%mv 7206tnl>
You parry Ciurehra's stinging lash.
You parry Ciurehra's stinging lash and return an attack of your own.
Your slash MUTILATES Ciurehra!
You parry Ciurehra's stinging lash.
You dodge a skeleton's chop.
You knock a skeleton's chop aside before it comes near you.
A skeleton parries your slash.
A skeleton deflects your slash with its defensive spin.
A skeleton parries your slash.
A skeleton is gushing blood.

<10%hp 100%m 100%mv 7206tnl>
Crendil says 'blast'
A skeleton is gushing blood.

<10%hp 100%m 100%mv 7206tnl> At the Bottom of a Crumbling Staircase


You flee from combat!

<10%hp 100%m 99%mv 7206tnl> The First Floor of the Keep


( 2) A suit of rusted chainmail lies here.
Bones from a human corpse are piled here.
Swatting away a skeleton's chop, you reverse your swing to thrust at it.
Your slash MUTILATES a skeleton!
You dodge a skeleton's chop.
Using a rusted battle axe, a skeleton disarms you and sends a superbly balanced
elven longsword flying!
A skeleton has a few scratches.

<10%hp 100%m 99%mv 7206tnl> No way! You are still fighting!
A skeleton has a few scratches.

<10%hp 100%m 99%mv 7206tnl> fle
No way! You are still fighting!
A skeleton's chop DISMEMBERS you!
You are incapacitated and will slowly die, if not aided.
A skeleton's chop MANGLES you!
You have been KILLED!!