>You see people playing as a social group as something that is
>inherently bad, evil, wrong, incorrect, aka cheating.

On the topic of perma or social grouping in CF, I've been a victim of them many a times. Necro summon, bard sleep (necro sleep if bard fail) and warrior waiting to bash or trip. I hated them.

It's not the social aspects as in your brother/roomate playing, but the high frequency of these 'combo' power that makes a day sucky for a player. The worst is they log in within minutes and then wipe out the pk range. Then they share loot and rank a bit and log out. Only to do that half a day later.

From my understanding (short time Heroimm), the Imms monitor closely before pulling the plug. They send these people to ROTD and forewarn them about grouping every other times. Do they listen? Well, I don't know.

>Allowing permagroups will necessarily lead to more gangs.
>Also, for every person who is helped by your perspective (a
>'mentoring' permagroup), you're going to have a person who
>finds the game, wants to play, and soon figures out that they
>can't compete alone.

Gangs are fine. We have all seen it in another unofficial forum. In CF, gangs are allowed, though if too frequent, frowned upon. The basis of CF is this : Pk and Rp. You are going to die and die a lot (to gangs, mobs, solo, what-have-yous). You are going to get good stuff with good Rp.

Grouping is encouraged which also mean there will always be gangs. Solo is meant to vets or elite players, who know game mechanics, preps and all. It's like the real world, go solo and face a stack of challenges. Possible? You bet. It's easier to go in groups/cabals and less frustrating.

>Second, ganging, in itself, happens, no matter what, which is
>what you also fail to understand. People are going to side up

Like I've said, gangs are fine. But not perma group. There is a thin line. Have you played counterstrike online where the same players keep grouping together? Keep covering for each other while one snipes at you? You keep going, what the...?!! And the funny thing is they keep doing it over and over again, in every scenerio.

Fun for them? Yeah. Fun for you? Big NO! Probably you'll quit the session and join another.

Note that people from the same area are not going to get called up every time. I believe the Imms have more things important (like coding and immteraction) than to keep pulling out cheats. They will monitor and if it is too frequent, they step in. I think you are going overboard on this perma-social grouping.

>Also, dealing with ganging, individuals are usually hooked,
>through the "peer-mentoring" idea way before they experience
>the ganging situation. From a manager's point of view, who is
>seeking players, get them hooked, and let those who cannot

Disagree. I was not hooked from perma or social. Ganging was nice, but left a foul taste after. Someone introduced me CF online. I tried, I was hooked. ICQ/IRC/Email/Gathering - none of those sort. I was playing as a hobby and that brought online social friendship. Met anyone online in RL? Yeah once in my whole 9 years of CF.

>Third, you are also turning a blind eye to what gaming is
>becoming. It is not the "sit in a dark room in front of a
>monitor and mud" world. It really never has. Humans are social
>creatures, and thus the games they play are social in nature.
>What is the replay value of, lets say, Final Fantasy 5? You
>beat it, its over. How about Metal Gear Solid 2? Beat it, its
>over, wait for the next. Games like Halo, Unreal Tournament,
>Diablo, Never Winter Nights, etc., are bound in the idea that
>although you beat it, you can always play with your friends
>and try new things. Its a reality, a reality that the
>immortals fail to understand.

Here you contradict yourself, as per below point about wanting uber powers and also linear quest about A, B, C cabals, etc.

>Solution. I am a firm believer that if you reject the current
>*snipped*
>immortal ties, but I'm not bringing that up here). The guy who
>spends 20 hours a week on CF is going to be chosen as leader
>over the guy who spends 5 hours. That is a proven, and

I agree with you on this one. It's going to be like this for a lot of online games. Show up and get reward. It's part of gaming, can't change it. I mean who will want to apply for a cabal if the leader is not going to show up?

>it comes to rewards. You have leaders of some cabals who get 4
>quest powers. Those under him gets 1 quest power each
>*snipped*
>have Fortress whose leaders not only get a leader weapon, but
>at some point, some kind of leader power. Where is the
>continuity to this? The immortal position has always been
>don't play the character for quest powers. Yet for some reason
>Cabal A and B have Hardcoded quest powers they get, yet Cabal
>C, D, and E have none to speak of.

You said people are social gamers. People want to feel they earn it. Yet in every promotion, not everyone is promoted. Just because I did this and this, I'm going to get promoted to leader.

Being a leader or outstanding character != more benefits or special treatment.

A leader is also a member. Most leaders get nice stuff. But basically they do earn them. If a leader cannot feel like he's part of the team and he needs a special quest/power to feel like a leader, he's not a good leader. Period.

Well, how a person gets rewarded also depends on the way he conducts himself with his peers and highers.

As for why a leader's power is coded and some doesn't, is just as much as your social point. Some people don't want linear, off-the-book rewards. Some do. If you want expected power which comes with being a leader, then join that cabal. If you don't want, join the other cabal.

>People quest for greatness. People want cool quest powers,
>people want to feel special in nature. Why not reward leaders
>equally? In a world where the extra 20 minutes of doing the

Erm, don't think CF is unique if it comes to this. Everyone will know what a leader gets, where is the 'discover and find out yourself'?

>"hard stuff" gets you something, when someone drops 500+ hours
>on a chararacter and adds dramatically to the CF environment
>and gets the goodbye thread of, "I was away but was going to
>reward you with something, but you aged died, great character,
>keep trucking." leaves an awful taste in the mouth of the
>player.

Greatness or glory is quite relative. One may see himself great but the majority does not, does not mean he is. I agree that people want cool powers, feel-special-I-am-powerful feelings. But you must know not everyone can handle that power. Remember Spider-Man? Yeah those cheesy lines Uncle Ben said.

The Imms can give out rewards like freebies. Then where is the challenge? I'd rather feel I've earned those rewards. Too easy rewards and I'll be looking for another game.

>gaming environment it had 7 to 8 years ago, where uni
>enrollment meant an upswing in numbers, not a downswing. At

7, 8 years ago, there was no MMORPG. Broadband Internet connection was near non-existant. Everything was much slower, and there were little reports on on-line hacking/cheating.

We have moved on.

>some point you have to grasp the fact that you need to attract
>younger, newer players, because us old vets are dying off
>quick (I being close to first in line).

True, totally agree. Game mechanics have changed so much and there is also a lot of competition as compared to last time. It's not that vets are dying off, but that they have social RL activities. We grow up and move on.

Younger gen has lots of other activities to do like MMORPG, more nifty games, more school work, more movies, more $$$ to earn. Well, the list goes on. Life was much simpler in the past.

You need a breather just like me. Play other games or read fantasy book. Soon, you'll be thinking up a new character and then you'll find yourself rolling one. And enjoying it.