...they still both suck in my opinion (trappers and poisoners). Sebeok/Cyradia and the rest who came up with their ideas will tell you how awesome they are but in practical sense you have better luck with an assassin if it takes that much preparation to get a kill. You can spend your entire time online trying to get one single kill which more than likely won't work - if you're that sadistic, go for it.

Sure you can screw with villagers (emetic demon-headed pendants or multiple knockout traps in a row)....sure you can do some RP stuff (suggest dance bitch!)...and sure you can annoy people (still think primordial vengeance is worse than any poison/trap)....

But when the majority of your abilities are under-powered, over-costing, and require massive gathering and exploring from about the worst exploring/gathering class in the game....no thanks.

Sorry, but level 60 trap items that do DEMOLISHES with a 3-4 hour immolate and can't be stacked...it's just not worth it. Any high killing poisoner or trapper in the hero range (a general problem with almost all thieves) hasn't existed in a long time, especially after you couldn't suggest people to drink PWK potions or had something else going for them (tribunal town sitting with 40+ hour uncurable blinds or emperor powers).....which any thief could do a lot better.