Subject: "RE: Sorry you don't make much sense to me" Previous topic | Next topic
Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend CF Website
Top General Discussions New Player Q&A Topic #12
Show all folders

incognitoWed 05-Mar-03 08:33 AM
Member since 04th Mar 2003
4495 posts
Click to add this author to your buddy list
#79, "RE: Sorry you don't make much sense to me"


          

>>I fail to see how parry
>>is ultra-important to perfect for
>>a warrior, but is irrelevant
>>for a necromancer who fights
>>solo often.
>
>word of recall and aura,shield, barrier
>plus, oh zombies that can rescue...
>

All of these are available (substitute sanc for barrier) to a non-rager warrior in one form or another. A rager gets resist and truesight (allowing him to carry less weight which helps defend to some extent), which is nothing to be sneered at.

Mercs/pets can rescue (and there are some tough ones out there, not in shops). Warriors can blind people. Sounds similar to a necro so far to me.

Your warrior, could, for example, take maelstrom of the veils, and then the necro couldn't use the zombie rescue tactic.

While my last fighting class perfected his defenses, the previous few before that haven't (eg Lokrin, Avastin, Umble), and they did ok. Manzinul didn't perfect his until about lvl 48 (and ironhands wasn't quite perfected upon deletion). Ultimately you won't defend well if heavily maladicted, even with your 100%'s. You can't parry without a weapon etc. That 100% parry will be meaningless if you have no weapon in your hand. That 100% dodge is unlikely to be helpful once you have been impaled/boneshattered, as I have seen very few people besides myself who gear with so much +stat stuff that such things are not a problem.
>
>
>>One of the disadvantages of a
>>low int/wis class is that
>>the abilities will improve more
>>slowly. If you can't
>>tank Maddie, tank something a
>>couple levels down for a
>>while.
>
>This is where you really freaking confuse me? I'm already
>getting 30 exp for killing maddie, how much lower can i go,
>and how can i possibly go lower yet learn my skills, the whole
>point of your change is that i don't do that?????????
>

There are VERY high level mobs (possibly even higher than 51) out there that an orc could tank easily enough for the purposes of learning defenses if you wanted to, because while they are hard to defend against they don't hit hard at all. However, orcs' high hp seem, to me, to be a substitute for defenses to a large extent. These aren't mobs you will be able to kill, but you will be able to tank them for quite a long time.

>
>> If you really
>>feel that your dodge/parry levels
>>are what is holding your
>>character back, tank some semi-tough
>>mobs on your own for
>>a while.
>
>THATS MY WHOLE POINT! THEY CAN'T!

They can. Just explore and find some of the easy but high level mobs. You may think that the exploration will be a waste of time, but if you seriously consider the time you spend spamming defenses on each character, and how much exploration you could do in that time, you'd likely find a lot of useful stuff.

>Maddie is for rank 16's for goodness sake, how the hell is the
>orc supposed to handle "semi-tough" when he's already getting
>beaten silly by "child-like" mobs??

Maddy hits harder than the level 51+ mob I am thinking of right now, and the mob I am thinking of doesn't chase either. Plus Maddie has those bullies to help her. And as an orc, I wouldn't want to go and practice my skills in the Emerald Forest unless I had a deathwish.

>Plus throw in for example the 50% wimpy and i'm laughing.
>Please can you give me a detailed explanation to the situation
>i am so obviously missing
>
>> Sometimes you'll
>>hit tough streaks where things
>>don't improve,
>
>11 hours
>

Personally, I find that spamming to practice skills for that length of time in one place is less effective than taking a break and doing some stuff elsewhere, then fighting a bit in another area later, etc.

>> but the code
>>affects a lot less than
>>the things you claimed in
>>your post.
>
>So why change it?
>

To try to make people realise that 100% skills are so important? Or to make the learning of their skills a somewhat more sensible procedure than sitting in one place repeating the same thing? Exp gains reduce the longer you sit in one area. It would be easy to apply this code to spam practice. Even easier to apply one that kicks in if you aren't learning much per mob you fight.

>> Also, orcs
>>aren't warriors. They're much
>>more of a utility class
>>than you are giving them
>>credit for, and comparing the
>>two isn't very accurate.
>
>no, the fact that they tank pathetically and are unable to get
>an opportunity to practice is the point at hand
>

The fact that you can't find a mob you can tank is. They are out there, as I said. Hell, my elf invoker went to spam spells on this mob and he could take the damage it dished out quite easily.

>
>
>>I agree with Trewyn, Scar, Kah,
>>and others above: You can
>>do just fine without stopping
>>to practice in the grand
>>scheme of things, mage or
>>not. Too many counterexamples
>>from recent characters exist to
>>not take that viewpoint very
>>seriously. I've checked out
>>some informed opinions on this,
>>from people who have recently
>>played giants and such, and
>>the myth that a fighting-type
>>class is dead in the
>>water without 100% everything is
>>just that.
>
>again, your spewing extremes here, i don't want 100% in
>everything, you keep repeating this non desired scenario as
>some sort of defence.
>

Well, if you haven't got 100%, and you berserk, you've suddenly got 89% at most. That 11% will make a noticeable difference to your tanking ability. However, it should not affect whether you win or lose fights very often, if at all.

>
>>My advice is to try sticking
>>it out. See how
>>your character stacks up in
>>PK situations, and whether or
>>not your abilities don't hit
>>high levels just by running
>>around doing your regular thing.
>> I think you'll find
>>that your character will do
>>a lot better than you
>>think.
>
>I did, my characters rp went right down the swanee as a
>respectable warrior when he died in every single confrontation
>with a necromancer (Within 2 rounds i might add) i swallowed
>the "don't practice" line and lost gads of con in a stupidly
>short length of time, it's happened every time i've done it.
>Mages just abuse you.
>

Sounds to me like you went up against the necro when he had an army but you were using an offensive weapon (and probably dual wielding). That's not the approach to take in most cases (unless you are a berserker or prepped).

I'm assuming that you would have mentioned if you were maladicted up by that stage, since that would cause (and be expected to) you to die very quickly.

>In fact i challenge you to make a rager warrior without
>practicing your skills -at- all and you can prove me wrong,
>but until you name one, i'm sorry but i don't believe you.
>

I don't think imms have ever claimed that no skill is worth practice. They have said in the past that some crucial ones are. But they are likely talking about the battle changing skills like disarm, rather than ones like parry. When you get one chance to disarm between each cranial hit, you need it to be reliable. However, that 5% missing in parry might just mean you take one extra demolish from your opponent each two rounds, which shouldn't decide a combat.
>

If both players are fully prepped, a necro will beat a warrior, granted, as he'll have more time to land his maladictions. But I don't see why you should find yourself in this situation. Anyway, I'll shut up now because it seems to me that you have already made up your mind about this, and nothing anyone says will change it.

  

Alert | IP Printer Friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote

HOT TopicThe Practicing Trap. [View all] , Valguarnera, Fri 23-Mar-01 03:34 PM
Reply RE: The Practicing Trap., Arolin (Guest), 06-Sep-01 08:38 PM, #50
Reply RE: The Practicing Trap., sandeep (Guest), 03-Sep-01 10:28 PM, #45
Reply Newbiedom, nepenthe, 04-Sep-01 09:46 AM, #48
     Reply RE: Newbiedom, sandeep (Guest), 04-Sep-01 09:40 PM, #49
Reply RE: The Practicing Trap., Gilrex (Guest), 19-Apr-01 02:55 PM, #22
Reply Only Phyisical defense skills have changed, not spells ..., Kaldar (Guest), 19-Apr-01 04:26 PM, #23
Reply RE: The Practicing Trap., Magic 8 ball (Guest), 27-Mar-01 11:45 PM, #10
Reply RE: The Practicing Trap., Mynawk (Guest), 29-Mar-01 12:22 PM, #18
Reply RE: The Practicing Trap., Jhyrbian, 27-Mar-01 04:05 PM, #3
Reply RE: Jhyrbian vs. The Practicing Trap., Valguarnera, 27-Mar-01 06:59 PM, #5
Reply RE: The Practicing Trap., Sylvan Bear (Guest), 27-Mar-01 03:46 PM, #2
Reply RE: The Practicing Trap., Valguarnera, 27-Mar-01 07:13 PM, #6
Reply Ill take that dare!, Oddjob, 20-Apr-01 02:26 PM, #24
     Reply Um., nepenthe, 22-Apr-01 01:07 PM, #26
          Reply ...., Oddjob, 23-Apr-01 12:57 PM, #27
               Reply RE: ...., nepenthe, 23-Apr-01 02:04 PM, #28
               Reply RE: ...., Tolingauroth (Guest), 03-Sep-01 11:10 PM, #47
               Reply RE: ...., Boldereth, 13-Mar-03 05:10 PM, #52
Reply Hmm..., Trewyn (Guest), 27-Mar-01 11:27 PM, #9
     Reply RE: Hmm..., Kah (Guest), 28-Mar-01 09:46 AM, #11
     Reply I was beginning to wonder, Scarabaeus, 28-Mar-01 09:55 AM, #12
     Reply A few points Kah., Jhyrbian, 28-Mar-01 11:42 PM, #16
     Reply RE: A few points Kah., Kah (Guest), 29-Mar-01 01:43 PM, #19
          Reply RE: A few points Kah., Tolingauroth (Guest), 02-Sep-01 10:43 PM, #40
               Reply RE: A few points Kah., sandeep (Guest), 03-Sep-01 09:23 PM, #42
     Reply RE: Hmm..., sandeep (Guest), 03-Sep-01 10:16 PM, #44
     Reply RE: Hmm..., TheFirstApostle (Guest), 28-Mar-01 11:29 AM, #13
     Reply RE: Hmm..., sandeep (Guest), 03-Sep-01 10:39 PM, #46
     Reply RE: Hmm..., sandeep (Guest), 03-Sep-01 10:07 PM, #43
Reply ArChaos, post removed, Scarabaeus, 27-Mar-01 12:31 PM, #1
     Reply RE: ArChaos, post removed, ArChaos, 27-Mar-01 05:05 PM, #4
          Reply Nope., Valguarnera, 27-Mar-01 07:20 PM, #7
          Reply ArChaos' quote, text quoted with objectionable portion ..., Valguarnera, 28-Mar-01 04:47 PM, #14
          Reply Sorry you don't make much sense to me, ArChaos, 28-Mar-01 07:52 PM, #15
               Reply two points (and the crowd goes wild), nepenthe, 29-Mar-01 12:08 AM, #17
               Reply ArChaos, post removed (advice inside), Scarabaeus, 29-Mar-01 02:53 PM, #20
               Reply RE: two points (and the crowd goes wild), Gabe, 29-Mar-01 03:49 PM, #21
               Reply RE: two points (and the crowd goes wild), sandeep (Guest), 27-Aug-01 03:26 AM, #31
                    Reply if you have to ask. . ., nepenthe, 27-Aug-01 10:15 AM, #32
                    Reply RE: if you have to ask. . ., sandeep (Guest), 27-Aug-01 08:46 PM, #35
                    Reply RE: two points (and the crowd goes wild), Valguarnera, 27-Aug-01 10:22 AM, #33
                         Reply RE: two points (and the crowd goes wild), sandeep (Guest), 27-Aug-01 08:37 PM, #34
               Reply RE: Sorry you don't make much sense to me, Tolingauroth (Guest), 02-Sep-01 11:30 PM, #41
               Reply RE: Sorry you don't make much sense to me, incognito, 05-Mar-03 08:33 AM #51
          Reply RE: Nope., sandeep (Guest), 27-Aug-01 03:07 AM, #30
               Reply RE: Nope., ArChaos, 28-Aug-01 01:50 AM, #36
                    Reply RE: Nope., sandeep (Guest), 31-Aug-01 07:55 AM, #37
                         Reply RE: Nope., ArChaos, 31-Aug-01 08:29 AM, #38
                              Reply RE: Nope., sandeep (Guest), 31-Aug-01 10:33 PM, #39
          Reply RE: ArChaos, post removed, Sandello, 27-Mar-01 07:26 PM, #8
               Reply RE: ArChaos, post removed, Oddjob, 20-Apr-01 02:35 PM, #25
                    Reply RE: ArChaos, post removed, Isildur, 04-May-01 06:57 PM, #29
Top General Discussions New Player Q&A Topic #12 Previous topic | Next topic