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Forum Name Gameplay
Topic subjectBriartangle
Topic URLhttps://forums.carrionfields.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=6&topic_id=9468
9468, Briartangle
Posted by tapster on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
I played a lot of druids years back and loved briartangle.


With the one cast per day, the nullified lag after hitting it once. Its been such a bummer in comparison to the old days.

All because one person screwed it up who should be.....*sigh*...I won't flame.

Is there any chance we can change this back and put in the helpfile, "Any druids that abuse this will be deleted with no questions asked."

I'd really like to see it return to its formal usefulness.

As a current druid, and a many-time former druid, I'd really like a little tangled weed love here please :) For those of us who have been using it the right way.
9469, RE: Briartangle
Posted by Eskelian on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
I'm fine with only having it affect you once if the lag is brought up. Right now its group trip that only works once, IE, pretty much useless. IE, all druids got nerfed due to one guy who in my opinion should've been denied on the spot for doing it rather than punishing everyone.
9471, Sorry
Posted by Odrirg on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Pretty much guaranteed first strike is so far from "useless" that it hurts my head that someone would say it.

Guaranteed lag on an entire GROUP who walks in, with zero ability to prep for it other than "well, we have to hit it, so let's hit it" being considered useless is so hilarious I fear for the health of my tailbone should I fall of my chair laughing.

I know I got tired of the lag EVERY TIME when I faught druids as a vindicator. Especially those who placed it at the guild entrance in Feanwyn, sat in guild, and waited for me to hit briars and would come in, hit me, then flee......every....time.

You want useless? Bark skin? (-ac? after mid 20's...honestly...what pk/mob fight is this actually affecting?)

You want useless? I'd put the combination of Dent/deflect shield above Briartangles.

You want useless? I'd put the combo of misdirect/leverage over briartangles.

You want useless? I'd put striking the shadows footfall (at least on a felar) over briartangles.

Heck, I'd put MOST things over briartangles.
9472, RE: Sorry
Posted by Haggler on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
None of those things are anywhere near useless. I think that the problem in this scenario is that people still remember when they'd hit a briar and be ghosted before the lag wore off. It also used to hit out of pk, which should clearly be brought back. Now, I will say that there are many ways for a druid to take out an unprepared target with two free rounds of lag before they do anything else. You'd be surprised the damage that a druid can put out when they're planning on it.

But come on, bark skin, dent, misdirect or leverage, a ####ing legacy...? You have to be joking. Useless? I'd trade some of the truly useless skills out there for these. Warrior spec skills _all_ have their uses, and legacies as well. Bark skin may or may not be doing what you think it is, as well. Rangers are a big bleeding mystery aren't they?
9475, RE: Sorry
Posted by Eskelian on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
>Pretty much guaranteed first strike is so far from "useless"
>that it hurts my head that someone would say it.
>
>Guaranteed lag on an entire GROUP who walks in, with zero
>ability to prep for it other than "well, we have to hit it, so
>let's hit it" being considered useless is so hilarious I fear
>for the health of my tailbone should I fall of my chair
>laughing.

Assuming people just walk into it sure. Wild west winds is (while not guaranteed) also the same effect. No one is complaining wild west winds is overpowered. If you can't handle two rounds against the druid how were you going to kill him to begin with?

>
>I know I got tired of the lag EVERY TIME when I faught druids
>as a vindicator. Especially those who placed it at the guild
>entrance in Feanwyn, sat in guild, and waited for me to hit
>briars and would come in, hit me, then
>flee......every....time.

Would you prefer he just stayed treeformed and immune to you?

>
>You want useless? Bark skin? (-ac? after mid
>20's...honestly...what pk/mob fight is this actually
>affecting?)

Reread bark skin's helpfile.

>
>You want useless? I'd put the combination of Dent/deflect
>shield above Briartangles.
>

That's ridiculous on multiple levels.

>You want useless? I'd put the combo of misdirect/leverage
>over briartangles.

Almost unblockable lag is useless to you?

>
>You want useless? I'd put striking the shadows footfall (at
>least on a felar) over briartangles.

Yeah, well, I hear dodge sucks for fire giants too.

>
>Heck, I'd put MOST things over briartangles.

Good for you, point is its main use was giving you time to kill fleeing enemies. If two rounds was enough time I'd just leave down flight. Actually, I did on a couple occassions, but still you get my meaning.
9477, I must be the only one that got this.
Posted by Theerkla on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
>>You want useless? I'd put the combo of misdirect/leverage
>>over briartangles.
>
>Almost unblockable lag is useless to you?
>

It isn't that one or the other is useless, it is having both, nearly similar skills. Most staff/spear specs do just fine if they never practice leverage and just get misdirect at the next couple of ranks.
9479, I got it too.
Posted by KoeKhaos on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Most classes would be VERY happy to have something that's noncombat and guaranteed to lag anyone who enters the room for two rounds once.
9485, RE: I got it too.
Posted by Eskelian on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Lets change it so trip only lags you the first time. Honestly, briartangle was fine the way it was. It let the druid get the chance to catch you fleeing. You already get first attack as a druid usually, considering almost all druids have chameleon. Moreover, it puts a sour taste in my mouth that a skill gets changed because one jackass over the course of 5+ years its been in the game abused it. He shoulda just been punished. You should bear in mind druids have NO lagging attacks besides technically primordial vengeance (which, while nice, is very terrain based). None, at all. Even invokers have quicksand, pebble to boulder, etc. Even necro's have lash. Druids get briartangles which, while it has its uses, isn't the uber-mecha you guys make it out to be.
9490, Lash on a necro... hehehehehehehehh. nt
Posted by KoeKhaos on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
.
9511, RE: Lash on a necro... hehehehehehehehh. nt
Posted by Eskelian on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
You realize you can lash people from sleep and lag them off the bat right? Granted, there's better options, I neglected that necros also get wands which means they have at least two easy lagging wands, one of which is guaranteed to lag two rounds.

Whatever though, I'm sure you kill more people than I do though, maybe I should take tips from you.
9491, Agreed.
Posted by Marcus_ on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Briars were fine the way they were. IMO gradually reducing the damage caused by entering them (represented by the briars' thorns being damaged) would have been a much better option than the change that was made. Though discouraging the abuse by a cadoresque trans abuser;slay abuser;!;!;!;!;!;!;!;! would've been even better.
9496, Druids have good lagging ability via their CoWs
Posted by incognito on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Headbutts and bashes for starters.
9497, Good?
Posted by Eskelian on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
I've never been lagged in any way shape or form from a CoW. Your idea of good must be that it could, theoretically lag someone, sometime over the course of an 800 hour old char.

I'm not buying it. They just miss too much.
9498, They seemed to lag well enough for me
Posted by incognito on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
One mob headbutts regularly and reliably, and that allowed me to kill Rogue's druid.

One bashes regularly and reliably, and that allowed me to be the only person to kill Dazan (warrior). I got a couple of others with the bashing CoW too, but just don't remember the names.

These particular CoWs are otherwise weak, doing only moderate damage and nothing else; their lagging ability is what makes them good.

I've never seen people use one of these CoWs at all, besides myself, and the other I rarely see them use.
9499, RE: Good?
Posted by Wasteland on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
This is coming from a guy who thinks lash is useful on a necro? I'm just not buying it. You want a powerhouse character that can dish out huge amounts of damage to also have a great lagging ability? Give me a break.

Druids, if anything, need toning down, not up.
9500, Least... Played.... Class.... Ever....
Posted by Laearrist on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
By a very very very wide margin.
9501, RE: Least... Played.... Class.... Ever....
Posted by nepenthe on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Let's admit that's more than a little because they're

1) An empowerment class and
2) Have to be neutral initially and either stay that way or get maimed.
9503, RE: And...
Posted by tapster on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
...Running around in circles every 3 days to 5 forests, running for a creature every 1 day, and blowing up equipment can be limiting also :)

2 seconds intro lag is nice. But the change is lame compared to druids having this single spot of ground they had to choose wisely which they could retreat to and fight around.

Now however, there is an another unusual exploit or advantage. You can have a gank group of 5+ walk into briars INTENTIONALLY, get lag immunity, and fight next to it. Woah to the single enemy that then flees into it. No longer do you have to just worry about the druid getting the jump on you.

Briars the way it is now is only sorta useful. Briars how it use to be was awesomely fun, made for good fights when being ganged and trying to be elusive.

Maybe the skill should be overhauled completely now. Make it like an entagle/web or entagle/wall of thorns but much weaker than the later sylvan had....

...or maybe just make it kewl like it was and delete druids who abuse it.
9505, RE: And...
Posted by nepenthe on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
>Now however, there is an another unusual exploit or advantage.
> You can have a gank group of 5+ walk into briars
>INTENTIONALLY, get lag immunity, and fight next to it. Woah
>to the single enemy that then flees into it. No longer do you
>have to just worry about the druid getting the jump on you.

This seems kind of farfetched to me. It's hard for me to conjure a situation in which this is bad, the druid doesn't have to be pretty much complicit, and it's not equally bad or worse than briartangle the old way with a complicit druid.

>Briars the way it is now is only sorta useful. Briars how it
>use to be was awesomely fun, made for good fights when being
>ganged and trying to be elusive.

It was awesomely fun if you were the druid. :)

>Maybe the skill should be overhauled completely now. Make it
>like an entagle/web or entagle/wall of thorns but much weaker
>than the later sylvan had....
>
>...or maybe just make it kewl like it was and delete druids
>who abuse it.

I think we'll just leave it how it is now for now. If you don't like it, druid has a plethora of abilities you can use in its place.
9506, RE: And...
Posted by tapster on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
"It was awesomely fun if you were the druid. :)"

*sniffs sadly* which I don't think was too much given its one room in all of the lands with a 24 hour timer only usable in certain places and with certain ways to get rid of it early if planted.

"I think we'll just leave it how it is now for now. If you don't like it, druid has a plethora of abilities you can use in its place."

*super big sigh* I really wish there could be a more reasonable compromise somewhere in between "too awesome" and "super nerf-bat".
9507, It does give "outcry of steel" a new use
Posted by Jagaub on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
A warrior with that legacy could virtually nullify briars for his entire party (at least he could run them past it so the lag hits them away from the druid).

However, I don't know if anyone ever picks that legacy. Granted, it can be a fun legacy, but it just doesn't have the oomph some of the others do. I'd say maybe this change would encourage more people to choose this legacy, but druids are just so rare that it might not have that effect.
9522, Ill compile one for you that is the most common use of briars.
Posted by Tirach on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
briars under the huntress....

That is NOT to lag them when they come, its to get those who flee from the huntress. Thats not possible anymore.

I would rather see people not in your group who follows into briars do a folow self (if following the druid) instead of what it's been changed to now.

Now briars main use will be to flash out thieves and assassin on eastern. And seriously, you can do that allready with plantgrowth. And this considered its a lvl 32 commune. If it was a lvl 15 commune or something I would understand the nerfing.

And for the dude who think druids are to powerful as is. Well they can't have staves or wands and they don't have word of recall (I know there are potions, cant be used in combat). I used briars several times as an "escape plan" where I could flee and quaff, this one is more or less nullified now since the chance they allready been into the briars are huge allready. The dam redux they can get is VERY easy to get around if you know how, and all that Nepenthe said.

A druid who is prepared for a particular fight is awesome, but god damn you have to prepare, right herbs, cows and so on - If you get a fight you haven't forseen and isn't configured for, ouch.

I don't wish to show dissrespect with this, I love the game, and esp the Druid class, it's so much fun and so many variables to explore, please reconsider the change please :D
9523, heh
Posted by Odrirg on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
>A druid who is prepared for a particular fight is awesome, but god damn you have to prepare, right herbs, cows and so on - If you get a fight you haven't forseen and isn't configured for, ouch.



What class is this *NOT* true for? maybe it's least true for an rbw, but trannies...powerful with prep, but catch one unawares and it's "ouch"

And shifters. And shamans. and aps. And necros. and assassins. and rangers. and thieves...etc.


please don't take offesense, but I believe that you are either intentionally saying that briartangle is now super limited, knowing you are wrong, to support your point...or you don't know how wrong you are, and you just need to spend 10-15 minutes coming up with some new tactics for it. Many of which can be extremely effective in pk.
9526, RE: heh
Posted by Tirach on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
I have one thing to say... c word or com word, for the fighting classes you in most cases have the time to think and get away. You cant do that as a druid in most cases. Druids are fine like they are I think, the power they have come at a cost of other things... I just think it was unnessesarry to nerf briartangle wich is supposed to be a very powerfull commune. There are many other possibilities and communes I take any day before briartangle at the moment.

As it is no I hardly believe I will use my pracs on it when I play a druid since there are other options that is far better now. Well maby if they take its level down from 32...
9524, RE: Ill compile one for you that is the most common use of briars.
Posted by nepenthe on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM

>I would rather see people not in your group who follows into
>briars do a folow self (if following the druid) instead of
>what it's been changed to now.

If I become convinced a more intermediary change is necessary, which I am not, yet, it will not likely be this. Nor, probably, will it be something that makes you happy. (More happy than what you have to work with now, perhaps, but my thought wouldn't commonly re-enable any of the strategies you're talking about.)

I'm sure that's not what you want to hear, but that's me giving it to you straight at the moment.
9528, RE: Ill compile one for you that is the most common use of briars.
Posted by Tirach on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
If you're going to have it the way it is now please consider it's level placement, or the damage and maledict effect or something. In theory you can set it after people strike at the outer, but when you're there you find it's just not the case, your pets give you away, and people usually spam fog outside outlander before they strike, I'm just mentioning outlander defense because I have a feeling thats where it's used the most at the moment.