I know ranger ideas are being kicked around and a big revamp is in order, so I wanted to contribute opinions and such and open ideas for discussion. Hopefully, we can all come up with legitimate arguments for why something would be overpowered and wouldn't work and offer new ideas in its place. Working together, I think we could help the Imms a lot as a playerbase. If you haven't played the ranger class yet, I suggest you try one out for yourself. Its a completely different experience from all the other classes.

One thing that I've noticed about rangers in the upper classes is the lack of offensive variety, with the exception of what is available in the ambushes. By the time one gets all their skills and reaches hero, there is not a lot of variation and uniqueness available to them. You can snare, ambush, serpentstrike (or pugil), entangle, call lightning (with proper weather conditions), bearcharge, and backrake (with claws or proper foot equipment). I've been trying to experiment with pk variety and what it boils down to is this. You snare someone, ambush someone, entangle them (if you're in the wilds), backrake (though since all it really does is cause bleeding, there's not a point), bearcharge if you're a giant, serpentstrike if you're not. After so many times of this, it becomes really boring. Rangers have the use of scrolls, though I have yet to find a pk situation to use one beforehand, and the use of staves, which is really awesome as a prep only. I would love to see more variety at the upper classes so it doesn't become so uninteresting. Having played a good many of the other classes and races, and finally getting a ranger to hero, the ranger class has been the least interesting of all at upper class.

I'm not complaining about the fighting ability, per se. In the wilds, they tank like none other. I've won pks barehanded in the wilderness. There's just nothing to separate them from one another once they reach hero. You fight one ranger, you can pretty much expect the same thing from every other ranger. So, its time for some ideas to be thrown around.

Vision quest - I had suggested an animal form emulation before, which could probably be considered too closely related to shapeshifters, but give them an automatic vision quest between the 35th and 40th rank in which they find their spirit animal. Between the 41st and 51st ranks, based on hidden variables (i.e. time spent in the wilderness, time spent in certain terrains/climates/environments, encountering and defeating certain mobs), they are visited by their spirit animal and shown insight towards new enlightment in the forms of skills or spells or what-have-you. This alone gives endless variety, encourages spending time not only in the wilderness, but in different environments, and also gives the imms something to mete out to 'special rangers' they deem worthy. Since the vision quest animal would be as random as a shifter form or conjurer familiar, it would also give the class replayability after that character's death for a new experience entirely.

Varying ranger staves - Instead of the ranger spear or staff being the same everywhere, make it somewhat similar to a druid gathering herbs. Going to certain forests and places will produce a staff of different strengths. A dragonoak staff might have a fire damage noun, or an ironwood spear might be stronger and heavier than one made with just oak. Or, create the spear or staff with different wood, and imbuing it will produce different effects. A dragonoak's properties brought out by imbuing the staff and instead of healing, it grants heat resistance or something.

Ranger hometowns for races other than wood-elf - Just one or two places you could have moved to when you become a ranger instead of being in the city as the endall to it.

Different weapon skills for the weapon you use as a ranger - It seems kind of unrealistic that a heavy, cumbersome axe can be used to serpentstrike with. And though rangers can use whips, there's not much else for them to do other than lash. Maybe keep pugil and serpentstrike, but make them exclusive to staves for pugil, swords, daggers, and spears for serpentstrike. Give one skill each to axe, whip, and hands respectively.

Different payoffs for where you spend your time - A ranger in the swamp might learn some different tricks than a ranger in the forest or the jungle. Likewise, an adventurer who is a partial city dweller might have some better insight to fighting on stone rather than in the wilds.

Its late and I'm rambling here, but I'd like to see an improvement for this class. Questions, comments, ideas are all welcome. Remember, I'm looking for variety, so if you disagree with everything I've written, then offer an idea or two of your own, or say how something might be tweaked to its betterment without affecting balance.

Great ideas, especialy the Spear/Staff thing. :)

Someone mentioned the idea of ranger pets in an older thread. I think that would make a nice addition.

My one idea for rangers:

Differentiate the "herbs" skill. Herbs with no argument gives hp, just like today, but allow rangers to "herbs mana" and "herbs move" to replenish either of those. Problem is, this is a powerup to the class since it only adds flexibility while exacting nothing in return. But it makes sense that rangers would be able to find different sorts of herbs to accomplish different things. Could also have "herbs curative" that doesn't replenish hp at all but has a mediocre chance to cure poison/plague/blindness.

I liked the idea of a vision quest, but I don't agree that rangers should get it easy and get to be visited by their totem animals. Instead, I'd send a ranger to a quest to seek his totem animal. A number of random totem animal mobs, each different, would spawn to Theran wilderness when the ranger starts his quest, and a ranger should find one of these animals and follow it as his spirit guide. This way, the ranger isn't obliged to follow the first spirit animal that he sees, but finding the next one would be extra work.

I have no comments of interest on your other ideas besides vision quest.

Some mechanical thoughts on vision quest

- Totem animals could be indestructible and visible to the ranger on quest only. Perhaps you could see other ranger's quest animals too, but they would cringe away from you if you try to follow them and you'd automatically stop following them. This could encourage RP concerning totem quest between rangers, though preference of privacy and only you being able to see the totem animals is pretty nice too, since the animals would be less mundane and more for you specifically.

- Vision quest would have to be started again on the next session(unless the totem quest mob locations are saved to ranger Pfile or something) in order to avoid losing the animals in crash/reboot. Just saying that some precautions are to be taken so that quitting doesn't screw up the quest that involves these special mobs. Restarting quest on reconnect would be the easy option, but Imms might be able to think of some better way to get around such technical problem.

-The previous statement means that you would only lose the "spirit guide"-slot if at the moment you find your animal and complete vision quest, not when you begin the quest.

The spirit guide

I have not thought what the exact benefits of having a spirit guide would be maybe it could be a ranger "legacy", or a form to which a ranger can shift himself into. Something nice anyway, though my idea was the quest itself, as I'd like to see rangers running around Thera in search of their totem animals(alternative expression for spirit guide in my text).

I like parts of your idea pretty well. I would think the whole 'shifting into animal form' would be considered magical, and thus exclude ranger ragers.

Make the vision quest an automatic quest once the ranger reaches a certain rank, and then have to go all over to try to find the clues that fit together and become one with your spirit guide. Is that kinda like what you're saying? I like it. The payoff would have to be worth it to a ranger for anyone to actually want to try it. Maybe once you commune fully with your spirit companion and have completed the vision quest, you lose some skills, gain others, some things become weakened, and some skills become more effective. Would give the ranger the opportunity to truly branch out and become unique.

I fought another ranger of the same race the other day. It could have been like fighting a mirror. It was very... boring.

>Make the vision quest an automatic quest once the ranger
>reaches a certain rank, and then have to go all over to try to
>find the clues that fit together and become one with your
>spirit guide. Is that kinda like what you're saying?

My initial idea was that you'd start the vision quest, after your character has reached a certain rank, using a command made for this purpose, as I'd see the decision as spiritual decision that the ranger makes in his mind not as something that someone else told him to do. This would randomly place the quest animals to their given locations.

And what comes to the reward, it's a cool and useful naturey thingy for rangers, which I haven't thought up well.

And about fighting mirrors.. I remember fighting other, two levels lower, arial assassin as Fungor in Brawling Room. It too seemed like fighting a mirror to some extent. The difference was that I had owaza(and DSkick, which wasn't used in the fight) and he didn't. That owaza broke the symmetry and earned me my first PK in CF, as he didn't see it coming in time.