Since cf, as I see it, is dominated by the light and fort at
heroes, perhaps it is time for the scions and empire to have a
pact.  At least temporarily they could aid each other
(ranking, pking, etc.
This is just a thought.  I am currently a player of neither
cabal.

Marcalius, Polmier, Bevrolmx, etc.

Those big target signs painted on Imperials are just too much
temptation to resist.  The two biggest "PK me
please" signs in the game are:

So and So the Imperial Whatever
[XX Elf XX] So and So the Whatever

If I'm a Scion, you can bet I'm going after both of them.  IC,
I'd be furious at any player-made pacts between the two
cabals.

At least temporarily they could aid each other in PK'ing? 
That's just wrong.  You shouldn't need help from a group, let
alone another cabal, to PK anyone.  Especially if you're a
Scion.  "Not Showing Weakness" is Chapter 1 in the
Scion manual, right after Chapter 1: "You Can PK
Anyone."

As far as gameplay goes, the Emperor can ally with whoever he
wants.  However, if an Emperor was foolish enough to ally with
Scion, he'd have some answering to do.  The hatred between
Empire and Scion runs deep. 

As Emperor Astilamos I pretty much ran Scion into the ground.
Then you stepped in and prevented it's total obliteration.

I understand game wise concerns.
But I was always curious of RP-wise justification why God of Empire wanted to save 'em, darn rats.

They were pretty much toast by the time you finished with them... was time to fry bigger fish.

Not bloody likely.

It is not beyond comprehension for Scions to use Imperials or in reverse for their own gains (as long as the other side gains nothing) in deceptions and intrigue. Joining forces isn't something I foresee.

Other cabals are somewhat about numbers, where Scion keeps its ranks thin by intent and design. Take that as we don't really like anyone else, and we prefer to handle matters ourself. Scion traditionally has a waiting list of applicants that are often called upon to 'prove' their worth or value.

Oh...and the histories are somewhat innacurate...Scion was formed because Empire is not evil enough. :P Now that's a story.

It could be just me because a few days later, perhaps the system is fine. I like scions a lot and have had many.

I was just wondering if when the light is dominating for an extended period, if it did not make sense for them to use one another. That is until such time they are of the strength to dominate again.

Is there anything that says a scion cannont use (group, fight a maran together, etc.) a member of empire?

I know the other way around is not aloud.

I also appreciate all the feedback.

If I see a Scion grouped with an Imperial, they will and have heard my displeasure. As I see Scion, we are EVIL...all capitals, big EVIL. And in being EVIL, we need to act in an EVIL manner. Anything that benefits the Empire, takes away from Scion. Even joining to rank or raid, still benefits Empire. We do not desire, nor require their assistance or any other.

Now using, I could care less...just do not be joined at the hip at any time, even for a moment...unless it leads to their immediate deaths.

Okay...Scion is EVIL incarnate, they are mean, they are scholars, they have things they desire to accomplish and care little for the outside events unless it affects them or annoys them. Everyone is is what Scions should think of as 'evil light'.

I have said this again and will say it everytime this stupid
topic comes up. 

The worst thing that ever happened to cabal wars in the past
was when it was an all out good vs evil battle. It leaves no
room for political maneuvering and rp... let evils be evil.
And not be happy go lucky good hating hippies. Alligning
cabals in a strict good vs evil thing just sucks the total fun
out of being a leader and setting up alliances and breaking
them. Even though as it stands its hard enough to do that as
it is.


Kads

The phrase 'at hero level'. Sure, a lot of stuff goes down at hero level...but kids, the game starts at level 1. That's right, level 1. Not level 51, not level 50....level 1. What this means is that if you really want to enjoy the game...and want to decide if things are balanced, play the game from level 1 to 51. Don't just start playing at hero and assume all the time previously was nothing more than a warm up.


"I wont play ball, wont do what i'm told
I'd rather be a square peg in a round hole.
Don't let the bastards grind you down.
Don't let them grind you down."
- the Toasters

I know this. But for some of us that have played a long time and have heroed over 50 characters (perhaps even as high as 100). The game does start in the hero ranges. The last thing I think you want is for us to level sit. I was merrily address one concern. Again I am not a normal poster. I think you do an awesome job. I have been playing a long time like you and I think the imms do an amazing job of game balance. The current hero range is just something that has been going on for more than a while.

And yes I have been playing all evils in an attempt to do something about it myself.

Was just a concern from someone that normally quitely enjoys the game and does not rant.

I'm hoping my comments didn't come off as me growling at you, I tend to occasionally respond to posts in an attempt to sort of get other people thinking about some small tangent that the post reminded me of. Since I felt Aarn had pretty much summed up the answer to your question I didn't see any real need in repeating him...so I kinda went off in a different tangent.

That being said, I will applaud you for just stating your question in a really mellow thought out way...and not really ranting or complaining. Even though it may not always seem like it, we really do smile when we read a post that is a 'hey what if...' as opposed to one that is 'OMFG U GUYS GOTTA CHANGE THIS ####!'.

The only comment I'll add to what Aarn said is that the best way (as you yourself mentioned...thumbs up btw) to change the problem (be it real or percieved) is to jump in the game and try to change it that way. Players rarely realise exactly how much power they have to shape and focus the game....in a lot of ways, the playerbase has more power than we imms. Oh sure, we have broad reaching powers and can add and subtract from the total equation...however, it's the playerbase that moves everything forward. To give a good analogy here...the imms build the car, but if there isn't anyone to gas it up and drive it, it just sits there and rusts. No matter what rims, paintjobs, and features the imms may add. See...there I go off on another tangent only semi-related to what the original post was on :P

>I know this. But for some of us that have played a long time
>and have heroed over 50 characters (perhaps even as high as
>100). The game does start in the hero ranges.

If you want to take that position, that's cool, but it's not an automatic consequence of playing a long time. The game certainly doesn't start in the hero ranges to me.

(grinding an old axe)...

As Miuwaro in Masters, I was trying hard to take part in quest, because almost noone else seemed interested, when I was specifically told by quest-mob (at rank 47 or so I think, although might have been mid-30's) to hero before I could take part, and to be a good little boy and send a hero to talk to quest-mob.


What puts the cream on the cake is when an imm posts that he had tried to get me involved while I was ranking (after the incident) but I didn't respond....but I never saw anything like a gecho or a pecho or a mob coming to life or anything.

Scion and Empire combined outnumber the Fort by more then
two-to-one.  It's just a matter who's playing a lot and who's
not.  It's always like this to some degree or another.  I
don't think we need to start pushing any long-term changes at
this point.  Ofcourse if the mortals of any given cabal want
to try something, by all means they should.  If it doesn't
work or their imms think it's the worst idea ever, they'll
have to be ready to pay the price.  But either way, it can be
delt with in-character.

Aarn

Perhaps you are right, I was just thinking with empire and
scions killing each other all the time.  Seems hard for evils
for the last six months or so.  Especially when you add
outlanders.  I appreciate the feedback. I have been playing
since July 1994 and this is the longest time I have seen the
goodies in power.  Even when empire was decent about 3 or 4
weeks ago, it was only short lived.  Anyway that was just a
thought.  I think scions and empire working together is not a
bad idea anyway.  At least during times of distress, I would
think the would band together.  Of course once the tide seemed
to turn, the would grow power hungry and the ties would fall
apart.

I of course I only speaking about the hero ranges.  I think
things in the lower ranges are quite balanceed.  I am not
complaining just wondering and concerned with the future of
cf.

And there aren't many scions. At all. Really.