As for shifters I love the class, the ability to survive if you really pick your fights. However the pk power is very poor. Or I could even say extreemly poor. Your inability to go underwater unless you have a water foci gives exploration a big bad sign to it.

Your inability to refresh spells properly in form is ####ty. Now Im not thinking about your controls, but rather protective things you might have. And you do need it. Heck a shifter out of form is a duck in the sea with a shark next to it. Quite dead...

The saves in general to the shifter forms are way to low. Some very select few have fair saves. And even with a hero bless spell you still get to maledicted. And your ability to improve them is rather helarious, not everyone has a pet healer/bard at their side at all times. Heck the equipment I wore had better saves than many of my forms. A suggestion is that equipment to shifters have a small say in the saves department/strength/dex. Say one third or something, and reduce the inherent saves of the forms slightly.

I do think the part of shifting going slower with broken bones is fair, but the lag is way to big. As is getting dammage each and every time. It should lessen a bit each time.

If any class would need a skill/power to reach wands in their inventory it should be the shifter class.

The shifters extreem weakness against necros/aps/shamen makes fighting them one on one rather helarious.

Let shifters retain normal gains while in form. When gaining let int/wis/con be their normal form. Its not a big issue, but it would help.

And talking to a shifter, should be possible. Most likely a challange, but that is an extreem hamper in the rp department.

Lastly the change I would see as most important is the focus change. Right now, its almost impossible to make a good role if you intend to have a certain goal with a shifter. Its extreemly dependant upon luck. Which is sad. Well done imms on many changes, but the shifter class in general is very weak against most classes, if you look away from a few select combination of forms that usually make out the off/air combos.

To one and all, well done for keeping a good game going.
LH
larsihalv@gmail.com

I think it's unfortunate that infravision/water breathing get cancelled if you shift into and out of form. Also, being unable to throw up your detect invis while in form is sad.

The think I really agree with is the part about ranking in form. I think it is not a neccesary balancing factor, and just adds irritation to ranking. Also, it makes no sense IC. Everyone understands it, so they'll put up with it, but it's not particularly logical that if you kill one particular mob out of the last 100, you'll permantly lose a couple hitpoints if you're not in human form, or that your guildmaster won't let you practice as much. There are ways to rationalize it, as there are with anything, but really I don't see the need for this.

The shifter class, both statistically and from what I've seen watching the game for the last few months, is not anywhere near as weak as you seem to think it is.

All you really have to do, is as a warrior, boneshatter/impale/artery and so on. That makes it hard/painfull to utilize your other forms. In many instances killing you when your protections fall. And with the short span they have they often do...

As a necro/ap/shaman
Heck sleep scourge forget = dead shifter 90% of the time, if you are not well rested beforehand.. I mean manawise. Your just going to die quite healthy but out of mana. No revert as a result of forget makes it close to impossible to survive.. I think I have survived twice of the 10 or so times Ive been slept and maledicted in form at hero. And that is in croc form/mongoose/porc/orangutan. Dying to the mana loss. Not able to revert.

Ap/shaman blind/energy drain... The saves on the forms are so shabby every second or more of the energy drains hits me. Even with forms that are resistant. And me outranking them.

Short log. Of a good day against an ap... that does not try to maledict me. Its a picture of the dammage I do against them.

This dammage is through a/s no other protection as you can see from the dispel. Both before and after. And also how much one actually hits someone like this. I have abs++ frenzy/bless from hero healer.

Now the hits I do continue to be wounds, if Im extreemly lucky I get a maul every 10 rounds, but I often get misses. And now he was affected by alot more than just when you dont see me. And this is a good day.
When I have played several other chars against necros/aps/shamen its a one way street. Heck there is a recipy for killing shifters.

864Hp 849M 686Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%) You bury your teeth in Nabburak's body.
Your bite <31mhits Nabburak.[br/><36mNabburak yells 'Help! a striped hyena bit me!'[br/>Nabburak calls a cabal power onto some thin air near Martainn.
The Imperial Assassin is writhing in agony.

864Hp 849M 686Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%)
Kalumgar leaves down.
Kalumgar has fled!
The Imperial Assassin is writhing in agony.

864Hp 849M 686Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%) hit Nabburak

Your bite <31mMASSACRES the Imperial Assassin![br/>Your bite <31mEVISCERATES the Imperial Assassin![br/>Martainn's searing light <31mmaims the Imperial Prelate![br/>You dodge the Imperial Assassin's slash.
The Imperial Assassin is writhing in agony.

864Hp 849M 686Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%)
Dorn has arrived.
<36mDorn yells 'Help! I'm being attacked by the Imperial Assassin!'[br/>The Imperial Assassin tries to attack some empty air near Dorn.
<36mDorn yells 'Help! I'm being attacked by the Imperial Prelate!'[br/>The Imperial Prelate <31mmauls Dorn.[br/>The Imperial Assassin is writhing in agony.

864Hp 849M 686Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%) You must MURDER a player.
The Imperial Assassin is writhing in agony.

864Hp 849M 686Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%) murder Nabburak
You do the best you can!
Dorn brings a mithril claymore named "Vigilance" up and across at the Imperial Assassin!
Dorn's strike of faith <31mDISMEMBERS the Imperial Assassin![br/>Completing his upper slash, Dorn steps forward and brings a mithril claymore named "Vigilance" down in an opposite arc towards the Imperial Assassin!
Dorn's strike of purity <31mMASSACRES the Imperial Assassin![br/>Completing his maneuver, Dorn drives a mithril claymore named "Vigilance" into the chest of the Imperial Assassin!
The Imperial Assassin gasps as Dorn drives a mithril claymore named "Vigilance" into his body.
Dorn's strike of deliverance <31mMANGLES the Imperial Assassin![br/>The Imperial Assassin is writhing in agony.

864Hp 849M 686Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%) bite Nabburak
You bury your teeth in Nabburak's body.
Your bite <31mgrazes Nabburak.[br/><36mNabburak yells 'Help! a striped hyena bit me!'[br/>The Imperial Assassin is writhing in agony.

864Hp 849M 686Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%)
Your bite <31mDISMEMBERS the Imperial Assassin![br/>The Imperial Assassin dodges your bite.
Dorn's flaming bite <31mDISMEMBERS the Imperial Assassin![br/>Nabburak's freezing bite <31mmaims Martainn![br/>Nabburak tries to attack some empty air near Martainn.
Nabburak's amulet becomes covered with frost!
Nabburak's blast of frost <31mMUTILATES Martainn![br/>Martainn's searing light <31mmisses the Imperial Prelate.[br/>Aktaig's crush <31mMANGLES the Imperial Assassin![br/>You dodge the Imperial Assassin's slash.
You dodge the Imperial Assassin's slash.
The Imperial Prelate tries to attack some empty air near Martainn.
The Imperial Assassin is writhing in agony.

864Hp 849M 686Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%)
Aktaig brings a large two-handed mace up and across at the Imperial Assassin!
Aktaig's strike of faith <31mMANGLES the Imperial Assassin![br/>Completing his upper slash, Aktaig steps forward and brings a large two-handed mace down in an opposite arc towards the Imperial Assassin!
Aktaig's strike of purity <31m*** DEMOLISHES *** the Imperial Assassin![br/>The Imperial Assassin is convulsing on the ground.

864Hp 849M 686Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%)
Martainn cuts his double spin kick short as the Imperial Prelate ducks under and away.
Martainn's double spin kick <31mmisses the Imperial Prelate.[br/>The Imperial Assassin is convulsing on the ground.

864Hp 849M 686Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%) hit Nabburak

Nabburak gives The Imperial Inquisitor some coins.
The Imperial Inquisitor closes its eyes for a moment and nods at Nabburak.
The Imperial Assassin is convulsing on the ground.

864Hp 849M 686Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%) You must MURDER a player.
Your bite <31mEVISCERATES the Imperial Assassin![br/>Your bite <31mMASSACRES the Imperial Assassin![br/>Your bite <31mDISMEMBERS the Imperial Assassin![br/>Your bite <31mEVISCERATES the Imperial Assassin![br/>Dorn's flaming bite <31mDISMEMBERS the Imperial Assassin![br/>Nabburak's slice <31mMUTILATES Martainn![br/>Martainn's necklace of prayer beads shines a bright white momentarily.
Martainn's dispel evil <31mMASSACRES the Imperial Prelate![br/>You desperately dodge around the Imperial Assassin's slash.
The Imperial Assassin is convulsing on the ground.

864Hp 849M 686Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%)
Dorn brings a mithril claymore named "Vigilance" up and across at the Imperial Assassin!
Dorn's strike of faith <31mDISMEMBERS the Imperial Assassin![br/>Completing his upper slash, Dorn steps forward and brings a mithril claymore named "Vigilance" down in an opposite arc towards the Imperial Assassin!
Dorn's strike of purity <31mMASSACRES the Imperial Assassin![br/>Completing his maneuver, Dorn tries to drive a mithril claymore named "Vigilance" into the chest of the Imperial Assassin, but misses!
Dorn's strike of deliverance <31mmisses the Imperial Assassin.[br/>Nabburak gives The Imperial Inquisitor some coins.
The Imperial Inquisitor closes its eyes for a moment and nods at Nabburak.
The Imperial Assassin is convulsing on the ground.

864Hp 849M 686Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%)
Your bite <31mDISMEMBERS the Imperial Assassin![br/>Your bite <31mMASSACRES the Imperial Assassin![br/>The Imperial Assassin is DEAD!!
You receive <1m0 experience points.[br/>As the Imperial Assassin falls, the Imperial Prelate presses the attack on towards Dorn.
The Imperial Assassin splatters blood on your armor.
Nabburak tries to attack some empty air near Martainn.
Nabburak's slice <31mdevastates Martainn![br/>Nabburak's ring flares with a bright white light!
Nabburak's shocking grasp <31mmaims Martainn![br/>Martainn's searing light <31mMUTILATES the Imperial Prelate![br/>Martainn's searing light <31mMUTILATES the Imperial Prelate![br/>
864Hp 849M 686Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%) hit Nabburak
bite Nabburak
You must MURDER a player.
The Imperial Inquisitor closes its eyes for a moment and nods at the Imperial Prelate.

864Hp 849M 686Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%) You bury your teeth in Nabburak's body.
Your bite <31mhits Nabburak.[br/><36mNabburak yells 'Help! a striped hyena bit me!'[br/>Nabburak has a few scratches.

864Hp 849M 686Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%)
Aktaig's crush <31mdecimates the Imperial Prelate![br/>Nabburak has a few scratches.

864Hp 849M 686Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%) bite

Nabburak calls a cabal power onto some thin air near Martainn.
Nabburak has a few scratches.

864Hp 849M 686Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%)
Your bite <31mgrazes Nabburak.[br/>Nabburak parries your bite.
Nabburak parries your bite.
Nabburak's freezing bite <31mdevastates Martainn![br/>Martainn's searing light <31mEVISCERATES the Imperial Prelate![br/>Martainn's necklace of prayer beads shines a bright white momentarily.
Martainn's dispel evil <31mMANGLES the Imperial Prelate![br/>Aktaig's crush <31mdevastates the Imperial Prelate![br/>Aktaig's crush <31mmisses the Imperial Prelate.[br/>Aktaig's crush <31mdevastates the Imperial Prelate![br/>Dorn's flaming bite <31mMUTILATES the Imperial Prelate![br/>Nabburak has a few scratches.

864Hp 849M 686Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%)
You are hungry.
Nabburak is in perfect health.

864Hp 832M 737Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%) You bury your teeth in Nabburak's body.
Your bite <31minjures Nabburak.[br/>Nabburak has a few scratches.

864Hp 832M 737Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%) bite

With a series of short and powerful leaps, Martainn delivers powerful rising crescent kicks to his foes!
Like a rising phoenix, Martainn's powerful kicks streak through the air towards the Imperial Prelate!
Martainn's rising phoenix kick <31mmaims the Imperial Prelate![br/>Nabburak has a few scratches.

864Hp 832M 737Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%)
Kalumgar has arrived.
<36mKalumgar yells 'Help! I'm being attacked by the Imperial Prelate!'[br/>The Imperial Prelate tries to attack some empty air near Kalumgar.
Nabburak has a few scratches.

864Hp 832M 737Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%)
Aktaig brings a large two-handed mace up and across at the Imperial Prelate!
Aktaig's strike of faith <31mDISMEMBERS the Imperial Prelate![br/>Completing his upper slash, Aktaig steps forward and brings a large two-handed mace down in an opposite arc towards the Imperial Prelate!
Aktaig's strike of purity <31mEVISCERATES the Imperial Prelate![br/>The Imperial Prelate is DEAD!!
As the Imperial Prelate falls, the Imperial Codex appears in Aktaig's hands!
The Imperial Prelate's hands are sliced from his dead body.
Aktaig sacrifices the corpse of the Imperial Prelate to the gods.
Nabburak has a few scratches.

864Hp 832M 737Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%) revert

Nabburak parries your bite.
Nabburak parries your bite.
Nabburak parries your bite.
Nabburak's freezing bite <31mMUTILATES Martainn![br/>Seizing upon a flaw in Martainn's tactics, Nabburak swiftly kicks him!
Nabburak drives his spiked boot into Martainn's body!
Nabburak's kick <31mdevastates Martainn![br/>Martainn's searing light <31mdevastates Nabburak![br/>Martainn's necklace of prayer beads shines a bright white momentarily.
Martainn's dispel evil <31mEVISCERATES Nabburak![br/>Nabburak has a few scratches.

864Hp 832M 737Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%) You bury your teeth in Nabburak's body.
Your bite <31mwounds Nabburak.[br/>Nabburak has a few scratches.

864Hp 832M 737Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%) c 'dispel magic'

Kalumgar narrows his eyes and glares in Nabburak's direction.
You feel you may want to be wary.
Nabburak parries your bite.
Nabburak parries your bite.
Nabburak tries to attack some empty air near Martainn.
Nabburak's slice <31mMUTILATES Martainn![br/>Martainn's searing light <31mdevastates Nabburak![br/>Martainn's necklace of prayer beads shines a bright white momentarily.
Martainn's dispel evil <31mEVISCERATES Nabburak![br/>Nabburak has some small but disgusting cuts.

864Hp 832M 737Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%)
Nabburak gives The Imperial Inquisitor some coins.
The Imperial Inquisitor closes its eyes for a moment and nods at Nabburak.
Nabburak has some small but disgusting cuts.

864Hp 832M 737Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%) You concentrate a moment and return to your normal shape.
You maintain the hardness of your skin as you shapeshift.
You maintain your levitation as you shapeshift.
You maintain your phase as you shapeshift.
You maintain your phase as you shapeshift.
Nabburak has some small but disgusting cuts.

864Hp 820M 737Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%) The magic of the infravision spell is unaffected.
The magic of the bless spell unravels.
The magic of the bless spell unravels.
The magic of the swiftness spell unravels.
The magic of the giant strength spell unravels.
The magic of the detect invis spell unravels.
The magic of the aura spell is unaffected.
The magic of the frenzy spell is unaffected.
The magic of the frenzy spell unravels.
The magic of the frenzy spell unravels.
The magic of the fly spell unravels.
Nabburak slowly floats to the ground.
The magic of the bloodlust of the twelve fiends spell is unaffected.
The magic of the bloodlust of the twelve fiends spell is unaffected.
The magic of the iron grip of azazel spell is unaffected.
The magic of the stone skin spell unravels.
The magic of the resist mental spell unravels.
The magic of the shield spell is unaffected.
Martainn leaves down.
Martainn has fled!
Nabburak has some small but disgusting cuts.

864Hp 805M 737Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%)
Nabburak parries your wrath.
Nabburak tries to attack some empty air near you.
Nabburak tries to attack some empty air near you.
Nabburak's slice <31mmisses you.[br/>Nabburak's amulet starts to bubble and boil!
Nabburak casts a spell into thin air near you.
Nabburak has some small but disgusting cuts.

864Hp 805M 737Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%)
Kalumgar narrows his eyes and glares in Nabburak's direction.
Nabburak has some small but disgusting cuts.

864Hp 805M 737Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%)
Nabburak gives The Imperial Inquisitor some coins.
The Imperial Inquisitor closes its eyes for a moment and nods at Nabburak.
Nabburak has some small but disgusting cuts.

864Hp 805M 737Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%) shape hyena

The Imperial Inquisitor closes its eyes for a moment and nods at Nabburak.
Nabburak has some small but disgusting cuts.

864Hp 805M 737Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%) bite

Aktaig gets the hands of the Imperial Prelate.
Aktaig gets the leg of the Imperial Warlock.
Nabburak has some small but disgusting cuts.

864Hp 805M 737Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%) You flicker and blur into the shape of a striped hyena.
You maintain the hardness of your skin as you shapeshift.
You maintain your levitation as you shapeshift.
You maintain your phase as you shapeshift.
You maintain your phase as you shapeshift.
Nabburak has some small but disgusting cuts.

864Hp 783M 737Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%)
Nabburak parries your bite.
Your bite <31mmisses Nabburak.[br/>Nabburak parries your bite.
Your bite <31mwounds Nabburak.[br/>Kalumgar's crush <31minjures Nabburak.[br/>You dodge Nabburak's freezing bite.
Nabburak tries to attack some empty air near you.
You dodge Nabburak's slice.
Seizing upon a flaw in your tactics, Nabburak kicks dirt toward your eyes!
You can't see a thing!
Someone's kicked dirt <31mscratches you.[br/>Someone has some small but disgusting cuts.

861Hp 783M 737Mv civilized 21600Tnl (-30.91%)
Someone leaves down.
Someone has fled!

I noticed, as Iramath, that only one offensive form type ever gave me real trouble, and that was the lion. Everything else I could do fine against, but even a poorly prepped lion was a strong opponent for me. This leads me to believe (and I know it's not a new kind of conclusion) that the lion excels over the other offensive forms. I've had a hero shapeshifter in the past, as well, and that character had the ram form. I can honestly say that though the ram's damage is very nice, I'd still rather have had the lion. That damned cat is just so hard to defend against. What I suggest is some more equality among the top tier forms. This has been brought up over and over again for years, and I know we're probably all tired of hearing it...but there it is.

Lord knows that if you guys listen to what I'm saying here it's only going to hurt me, because I'll be on the receiving end of stronger forms (or weaker lions?), so know that it's not self-interest I'm serving here.

Vs. Iramath, Lion would probably be the best offensive form.

Vs. other opponents, it wouldn't be.

Jaguar for instance, always the weakest of all offense forms even before the toning down. Anytime I play a shifter, if I get jag I just delete on the spot. Pre-changes you could at best get an eradicate on an ambush, and mangles on the infrequent melee hits. Now if you land a demolish on the ambush and a massacres on melee hits you're fortunate. Considering how poorly the form avoids blows, and how poorly and infrequently it deals damage, I really don't see how the form compares to any of the other major offense forms. Yeah it has camo but...well camo doesn't scream "offense" to me, especially with such a wussy ambush.

I really can't think of a single foe I would rather use the jaguar for than any one of the other major offense forms, not one. I try not to wade in on the "this is too weak" or "that is too strong" debate too often, but on this one I feel very strongly.

I agree with Vlad the shifter forms are no where near being balanced. Especially between the defense and offense focuses. Utility isn't so bad and air/water are pretty good. What I'd love to see with shifters would be to make a combo form. It would be a mix between your top two focus forms. Say a mix between the lion and armadillo. This would be a form that didn't retain quite as much damage ability as the lion, but it would have a bit more damage reduction. Not the perfect form for all situations, but a bit more handy in others. I think it best that imms still control who gets these, but not make the requirements as ridiculous as a quest form.

That the major form was an improved one, and the minor was weaker. Would make sense in that your major focus was stronger than the major in your minor focus.

And I still retain that shifters should be able to go under water. In all forms - air forms. Ei no flight underwater. Though give them hydrophobia.

And that being able to invoke more spells in form. Like detects and so on. Even wand reachability. Perhaps only to an equipped item.

And a slight improvement in saves in general to most forms.

Some forms are really great, while others are depressing. Like lemure and mongoose they are extreemly similar. Take one away and replace it with a different form.

Just my take after having played every combo of shifters. I know how deadly the off air combo can be, but its not fun to play at all. And deleting shifters because your role is to be an agressive fella with a bloodlust and getting an alligator is just not fun. Thats one sorry ass form that has been lost in the tuning of forms.

Anyhow thanks for listening and reading. I know how much you read through, as I try to keep up to date with all that is here as well. Love the work that has been done..

LH

I want the 'Liger' form.

Obviously, a form bred for its skills in magic would be reserved as a quest form.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Sure, the giant scorpion is right in the pocket, here. But I am thinking along the lines of the Taglos, Rothes, Dune Reapers, etc. (if these are all real creatures then just shoot me now :P)

Also, what about allowing shifters to shift their race, gaining certain benefits during those transitions, while losing the ability to do further partial shifts during this period? I know it may sound crazy, but it would be kinda nifty to be able to turn into a fire giant while walking around in a hot area, or a duergar when navigating the underdark. Eh, I don't know, I just see shapeshifters as being much more capable in their own skin, rather than just being fierce when fully shifted into some animal.

I just had a megadose of caffeine and I'm not sure if this is being affected by that, or not.

What if the two foci affected each others "trends" in forms?

Someone who was off/util might have a greater chance of winding up with say, jag/orangutan than say panther/fox. The jaguar being the most "utility" of the offense forms (thanks to camo) and orangutan being the most offensive of the utility forms? Or if they are off/def to wind up with a greater chance of a panther/croc, panther being (arguably) the most defensive off form, and croc being the (also arguably) most offensive def form. (Yes porn has a greater damage potential, but it doesn't have that nasty offensive bite) .

It would reduce SOME of the utter randomness, and reward people who focused entirely on one foci. Frankly I think if someone deoves themselves entirely to offense, they ought to tend to get ram/lion since those are the two most brutally offensive. Someone who does def/def ought to tend to get a dillo/porc, and so on.

nt

QUest forms seem so far between. Its the goal of every shifter to get a quest form and they are very very rare. Why not give some perks to a class that has constantly been downgraded. Ive noticed a trend to give out third tier forms to well played shifters. A sand lizard or snow badger is nice...but come on, it would be cool to fight shadow demons, or polar bears, or whatver...

Take Akscereh for example, a fellow who played hours every day, role played well, was consistant. make him a shadow panther or a demon pteradon. Quest forms dont even have to be ALL powerful. Just something diferent. Hell my last quest form was the massive raven. Identical to golden eagle, with a small perk. And man was that a happy moment in my gameplay. It cant take but a moment to code dozens of small changes to existing forms. Dont just give them out to leader characters, but to anyone in this dwindling tiny playerbase that is making an effort and trying to make the game fun. Maybe make it age and experience extensive, an older experienced shifter can attempt to learn a new spell. It would totally bring back more excitement to a pretty dull class.

Most of the fun I get playing shifters is ranking and getting my forms. Its always a surprise when you learn one, and strive for that 'perfect combo'. With more incentives it will just get better.

Boneshatter/impale/dagger moves/some diseases, ect, all massively limiting forms. Lots of other maladictions in there as well. Its not even like shifters are that tough. I guess if you fully prep you can tool someone, but they arent really on par with a legacy warrior under most circumstances.

I cant even count how many shifters ive played, and I will continue to play em....

just a suggestion though not criticizin.

' Maybe make it age and experience extensive, an older experienced shifter can attempt to learn a new spell. It would totally bring back more excitement to a pretty dull class.'

A possible idea would be to have shapeshifters spontaniously develop low-powered 'quest forms' once they've reached a certain amount of total playing hours. These 'bonus forms' could potentially replace the current (and rather rare) 'quest forms' and be available to any shapeshifter character that lasts for a long while (and who thus virtually automatically contributes to the roleplaying atmosphere of the game in this fashion), at the cost of making these 'bonus forms' significantly less powerful than the 'quest forms' as they exist today.

I would agree with Lightmage, in that the fun in awaiting these new forms could make the class a whole lot more interesting in itself already. It would be something different, and I would gladly sacrifice the power of the current 'quest forms' for this.

Perhaps something for the staff to consider.

After say, 300 hours or so, a final combination form dependant on also having ALL of your other lesser forms mastered.

air/off could get a roc, a pterodactyl, a shadowhawk or a weak dragon form color dependant on align. off/def could get things like a manticore, a rock troll, etc etc. Someone who was pure offense could get a lesser dragon form or maybe a fire salamander or something, pure defense could get a stone golem or some such. I had some stuff written down for ideas but I'm not sure where I put it.

I might be off base here... but it seems lion has a special thing which makes it hard to block lion's attacks.
So chars who rely on defense are screwed here.

Ram has higher number of attacks and higher damage per hit but relatively easy to defend from.
So mages would go down from ram extremely fast while defensive specs would have a lot less problems with ram.

Panther/Jaguar seem to be 'jack of all trades' type forms.
Some damage/average dodging/several utility skills.
As offense - not impressive at all.
I would classify these as Utility focus.

I hope it clears Nepenthe's somewhat cryptic message a bit.
===

And as a bonus - here is my idea:

Split defensive focus in three sub categories.
1) High dodge (lemur/mongoose)
2) High defense (armadillo/croc)
3) Special abilities (porc/rattlesnake/anaconda).

This way people will mostly get what they want.
And Dreaa's situation could be avoided (Dreaa had lemur AND mongoose forms).

My $0.02,

-=NNNick=-

I've also been torn a new one by the lion form at hero. This was as an arial assassin with above average skills, gear, and a moderate amount of dam redux. I tried axe kick once or *maybe* twice before wimpy fleeing.

Gotta agre with you there, shifters are still damn good in a lot of different scenarios. I am perfectly happy with most of the forms and their fighting abilities, they are all pretty much well balanced. My issue is this movement lag thats slapped on all offensive and defensive forms without any rhyme or reason. I can understand some of it on lower level forms and certain defensive forms like armadillo. But the part that always frustarted me was that even offensive forms have movement lag attached to them for the sake of game balance. I think now that we have tinkered forms enough to make them up to par with other classes toe to toe, maybe you guys ought to rethink this broad movement lag on shifter forms? Take something like ram for example, all anyone has to do is just flee and no way a ram can catch up.. realistic? If you say so.


Yours truly
Grim

though it wouldn't hurt. I honestly can't say the last time that I "feared" a shapeshifter. I think it would be really interesting to just add some neat utility features to the current forms. One of the biggest things I could think of, was to have each focus of forms have instincts it can use. Or hell even just a few more attack, or defensive move motions would be great. They don't have to be powerful, just anything besides bite bite bite etc.

I'm curious how many people delete after finding out what their final major form is.