Since there's a lot of stuff to do with trapper thieves, I thought I'd give some useful feedback - as it stands I've only played CF for awhile (maybe 5 months) and am relatively knowledged.

As the *late* Karusa (yeah, I deleted) at level 27, here's what I can see as of now. Yes, I know - I deleted early but I did notice a bunch of problems. I'll roll another trapper thief in a bit, but here's what I can see so far as problems.

1) Coming out of shadows to make traps - obvious problem here.

2) Expensive trapper items - all those ingredients sold at the thief guild vendors are ridiculous for how high they are. I donated to the Empire over 600k, received a lot in commerce (at least 3-4k exp) - and couldn't afford a normal layout of items (especially since it fails - a lot)....or carry them. It wasn't abnormal to have a huge container weighing me down. Also I'd say most if not all of the items sold by thief guildmasters is near useless compared to stuff you find so don't bother.

3) Lack of usability in low levels - this is what killed me, I'm level 27 and what are my abilities? Trip, dirt kick, circle, and waylay - which mind you, has a variable amount of success! Think you have 2 hours? Guess again when someone smacks ya since it only lasted 0....I'd rather have SOME sort of notice of how shocked they are.

4) container/door traps - the usability of these is so low, it's unfathomable why I'd want these unless in rare occasions. Trapper thieves should get plant or some way to do containers on people so they won't notice....as it stands now, near useless besides the rare occasion. Around 60% of the containers I saw couldn't be closed which doens't make sense.

5) door traps didn't seem to work from both sides of a door. If I close it from the north and set a trap, it won't work on someone opening it from the south. Obvious problem and downside.

6) even using expensive ingredients, the knockout trap for containers was really low on time and effectiveness

7) I used about 16 different ingredients, never saw one effect. Maybe it's something ya get later, but a few of them I saw should have done something...

8) combat steal - this should be in the hands of bandits, not trapper thieves. I've got little defense and combat skill as it is, why would I want to stay in combat any longer? (also combat steal for sanity sake should be a different command than steal - my last death to a minotaur bashing me was because I did waylay and expected to at least get 2 steals off before my brains were pummeled. Low and behold, the second one goes in through combat after I'm near death. Jump for joy...)

9) Precise strike or the circle update - trapper thieves literally have nothing else to do besides circle, throw us a bone or two and let us have something in combat.

10) trap items in areas - come on, what's the purpose of putting one trap item hidden in a super hard to find area...and only one? I have to sit and wait for repops constantly, which is a pain in the arse if it's far into a zone. One that comes into mind is a broken mithril axe piece....come on, that whole zone is covered in that description, at least put a few in the area and not just one?

I'll think of more later, but as it stands now the class is on-par with the worst early classes from lack of power. Literally, the class has nothing until directional traps - which I deleted prior to, ironically.....when you're level 27, 600k in donations, and you've only seen the Emperor once and don't get promoted beyond bloodoath... you kinda get bored from getting full looted by villagers and waiting outside the Citadel as citizens get all the loot.

Sorry, ranting...just deleted, what can ya expect? Hope this was helpful, I'm going to make another one soon - hopefully it won't be as bad as this last time.

Wish me luck.

TrapperThief

I played my trapped to hero (or at least well into the upper 40s).

>1) Coming out of shadows to make traps - obvious problem
>here.
>

Well, except that you don't have to be in the room with someone. So you can set traps when at a safe distance, or you can set traps from just inside the next area. It's a drawback, but traps have some plusses to make up for it.

>2) Expensive trapper items - all those ingredients sold at the
>thief guild vendors are ridiculous for how high they are. I
>donated to the Empire over 600k, received a lot in commerce
>(at least 3-4k exp) - and couldn't afford a normal layout of
>items (especially since it fails - a lot)....or carry them. It
>wasn't abnormal to have a huge container weighing me down.
>Also I'd say most if not all of the items sold by thief
>guildmasters is near useless compared to stuff you find so
>don't bother.
>

Can't comment as my trapper was some time ago.

>3) Lack of usability in low levels - this is what killed me,
>I'm level 27 and what are my abilities? Trip, dirt kick,
>circle, and waylay - which mind you, has a variable amount of
>success! Think you have 2 hours? Guess again when someone
>smacks ya since it only lasted 0....I'd rather have SOME sort
>of notice of how shocked they are.
>

Disengage is pretty useful, as in gentlewalk. When I played mine, we didn't have circle! As far as waylay goes, I am amazed you've ever had 2 hours out of it. But even 10 seconds is pretty nice. It's enough to stop someone running past you or getting first attack on you.

>4) container/door traps - the usability of these is so low,
>it's unfathomable why I'd want these unless in rare occasions.

Container traps are not that bad. Drop a sack on the ground, and most people will look in it. Door traps would be useful in areas like htos, or elemental temple etc. There's a fair number of areas with doors around. Remember, you can also let people chase you into the one room with the trap on the door in an area.

>Trapper thieves should get plant or some way to do containers
>on people so they won't notice....as it stands now, near
>useless besides the rare occasion. Around 60% of the
>containers I saw couldn't be closed which doens't make sense.
>

Well, nothing is stopping you from taking plant. My trapper took all trapper skills, plant, and if I recall, discerning gaze.

>5) door traps didn't seem to work from both sides of a door.
>If I close it from the north and set a trap, it won't work on
>someone opening it from the south. Obvious problem and
>downside.
>
>6) even using expensive ingredients, the knockout trap for
>containers was really low on time and effectiveness
>

Knock-out trap was crap all round in my day. I never once had one work on anyone but myself.

>7) I used about 16 different ingredients, never saw one
>effect. Maybe it's something ya get later, but a few of them I
>saw should have done something...
>

Some ingredients seemed better than others to me.

>8) combat steal - this should be in the hands of bandits, not
>trapper thieves. I've got little defense and combat skill as
>it is, why would I want to stay in combat any longer?

You have the most defense of all thieves. You have shield block.

> (also
>combat steal for sanity sake should be a different command
>than steal - my last death to a minotaur bashing me was
>because I did waylay and expected to at least get 2 steals off
>before my brains were pummeled. Low and behold, the second one
>goes in through combat after I'm near death. Jump for joy...)
>

Combat steal is one to use when the other guy is not deadly. e.g. if that voker is concentrating on someone else, steal his wands. If he's concentrating on you, don't.

>9) Precise strike or the circle update - trapper thieves
>literally have nothing else to do besides circle, throw us a
>bone or two and let us have something in combat.
>

Disengage is useful, as I said. But yeah, they do feel a little lacking. They also have a separate (or is it isolate, forget which) skill, which can be handy too, both offensively and defensively.

>10) trap items in areas - come on, what's the purpose of
>putting one trap item hidden in a super hard to find
>area...and only one? I have to sit and wait for repops
>constantly, which is a pain in the arse if it's far into a
>zone. One that comes into mind is a broken mithril axe
>piece....come on, that whole zone is covered in that
>description, at least put a few in the area and not just one?
>

There are a few in that area, last I checked. The area is not especially easy to get to know. You are probably missing bits of it, unless I'm confused and thinking of another area.

>I'll think of more later, but as it stands now the class is
>on-par with the worst early classes from lack of power.
>Literally, the class has nothing until directional traps -
>which I deleted prior to, ironically.....when you're level 27,
>600k in donations, and you've only seen the Emperor once and
>don't get promoted beyond bloodoath... you kinda get bored
>from getting full looted by villagers and waiting outside the
>Citadel as citizens get all the loot.
>
>Sorry, ranting...just deleted, what can ya expect? Hope this
>was helpful, I'm going to make another one soon - hopefully it
>won't be as bad as this last time.
>
>Wish me luck.
>
>TrapperThief
>
>

Can I get a nepenthe-isk response?Not the normal kind, but a "helpful" nepenthe reponse :)

Maybe I'm missing some things and would really like some feedback on this. Even with the changes I was one of maybe two trap thieves I ever saw - that has to say something about the class.

.

Uh no, it's a day and 40 minutes :P

>Can I get a nepenthe-isk response?Not the normal kind, but a
>"helpful" nepenthe reponse :)
>
>Maybe I'm missing some things and would really like some
>feedback on this. Even with the changes I was one of maybe two
>trap thieves I ever saw - that has to say something about the
>class.

We made changes two weeks ago, we'll make more.

Incognito covered just about everything else. Maybe if
you'd stuck with it, you might have seen something you
liked, but it sounds like you should stay away from
trappers in their current incarnation.

I added thief path help files so you can look before you
leap next time.