I tried to ask a bit about this a while back but never got an answer, was curious if maybe you guys would be willing to shed some light on this.

Templars defense. There's several maneuvers, many seem redundant, are they literally redundant for purposes of atmosphere (IE, to make for RP-esque fighting) or are there effects that aren't shown in the help files or through the echoes?

I've had four 2h dedicant paladins, I still can't figure out why I'd bother with most of these. The obvious tells me that there are hidden things going on, is there any hope to shed some more in depth light on this skill in the helpfiles so that we players have a shot of figuring what these things do? I don't want to get all number crunchy or ask my friends to test stuff out with me or run 'experiments' to determine formula's or whatever.

I just want a general idea of what X does and why I'd use it, any chance of that happening? I think if you take a look around its pretty apparent that most players really have no idea about this skill, even people who've had multiple paladins with hundreds of hours of play.

Jaegrudai used stuff that you never saw anyone else using. There are things in TD that I still don't see repeated, so I'd say its definatly worth taking some time to expiriment with a buddy.

TD does replace warrior specs, but its a hell of a lot easier to seal kills with than co wrath!

It's been a while since my last twohander, so take this with a grain of salt.

I think the similar skills vary slightly. One might succeed more often while the other does more damage.

The new helpfiles on TD are a lot better than what I had to deal with back in the day. I'll still try to take a look at the skill and the helpfile again soon.

nt

This is still on my list, I'm just trying to hit some bugs and broken things before getting to projects like this.

nt

...to allow 2-handers to dedicate either to "poles" (polearm/staff) or to mace/sword? (Might even specialize some of the templar's moves to only work with the correct dedication)

As they say in the consulting world, that's beyond the scope of this project.

Updated these helpfiles slightly.

Each move does have it's uses. Until the imms decide to make the help files on them more specific however (something I think would be a GREAT idea *hint hint*) I don't think it's exactly kosher to start filling you in on what each one does.

One thing I will tell you though, the moves are NOT stackable. IE if you do one move that lowers str or dex, doing another will not also maledict. You may still get bleeding or other effects, but not extra loss of stats.

I know that much, reason I asked was because most of what I've heard from people conflicts each other. Most of it seemed at best to be speculation...and I don't see anything inherently wrong with knowing why I'd want to use X templar's move as a paladin.

I'd like the help files to be a little less vague. Some of the moves mystify ME and this is my third two hander. I also think some of them were tweaked, because they don't seem to do the same things they did a few years back.

Hiltsmash works too often IMHO. Every time Ahelun lands the hiltsmash it blinds, which seems counter to what the helpfile suggests ("...has the chance..." I've only notice him "miss" it once. Sure, it doesn't last overlong, but it seems to be WAY more effective than dirt kick and dirt kick is pretty effective. Could you (the imms) perhaps look into adding additional variables? For instance, you wear a cup to keep your jollies from being smashed to mush, how about making it such that a mask decreases the effectiveness of hiltsmash? Not render it ineffective, but reduce the chance at blinding the victim.

>Hiltsmash works too often IMHO. Every time Ahelun lands the
>hiltsmash it blinds, which seems counter to what the helpfile
>suggests ("...has the chance..." I've only notice him "miss"
>it once.

I've missed a hell of a lot more often than that even just fighting you. I've had the skill, which is perfected, miss 4-5 times routinely before it even hits once. TD moves are FAr from guaranteed. Also try taking your headwear into consideration.

>Sure, it doesn't last overlong, but it seems to be
>WAY more effective than dirt kick and dirt kick is pretty
>effective. Could you (the imms) perhaps look into adding
>additional variables? For instance, you wear a cup to keep
>your jollies from being smashed to mush, how about making it
>such that a mask decreases the effectiveness of hiltsmash? Not
>render it ineffective, but reduce the chance at blinding the
>victim.

What you're basically saying here is "Sure, it's only got a one tick duration, but I want to nerf it because it works too well against me". There are very set conditions under which templars defense moves can even be used, and they still fail an awful lot of the time. What you want to do is make it even less effective, because you can't think of a way to defend against it. Thats lame.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you're essentially bitching about a skill that can only be used on certain foes, under certain conditions, and already fails better than a third of the time, and has a one tick duration. So....whats the gripe? Really? Yeah, it sucks to have me use it on you, but thats what combat is all about.

>I've missed a hell of a lot more often than that even just
>fighting you. I've had the skill, which is perfected, miss 4-5
>times routinely before it even hits once. TD moves are FAr
>from guaranteed. Also try taking your headwear into
>consideration .

You essentially agree with my argument here then. If headwear and facewear are a factor I'm satisfied. If they're not they should be, which was the point of my post.

>You essentially agree with my argument here then. If headwear
>and facewear are a factor I'm satisfied. If they're not they
>should be, which was the point of my post.


Considering skills like cranial taking headwear into consideration, I would be very surprised to find that it wasn't also used in situations like a hiltsmash. Frankly however, considering the failure rate is already pretty excessive I don't think anything is really in need of a tweak.

Just remove your damn weapon. :P

You're roughly one tirade like that away from a ban. I'm really tired of dealing with this crap.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

This post is exactly the kind of thing you yourself have said you didn't want people posting about. You bitch and moan about how the "other" forum has become a place for people looking to have knowledge handed to them that they didn't earn. That you didn't want them coming to the forums looking for answers to things they ought to be finding out for themselves IC. Then you leave spoonfeeding "here's an answer that was right in your face all along, but you didn't think of yourself so let me gift wrap it for you" posts alone?

It's not like he shared some ubersecret knowledge that is only possible to find out through hours of testing and deductive reasoning. IT'S IN THE HELPFILE!

The guy obviously hadn't even bothered to read the help files for it. The tactic never occured to him in ANY of our fights. Thats not something that should be rewarded with spoon feeding.

If you're that lazy not to read helpfiles? *THAT'S* spoonfeeding. Getting hints to ubersecret stuff? That I think's just a decent push, cuz how else you supposed to figure it out? Levels the playing field.

1) From the helpfile, as noted by Wilhath:

"All of these attacks require that your opponent is wielding a weapon, and some of the strikes will not work against smaller weapons such as daggers, whips and flails."

This is hardly ubersecret knowledge. And the staff suggests reasonable tactical measures all the time to people. Even when it offends the Dögmä öf Äxë, as this particular tidbit may do.

2) Even if it was over the line, which it wasn't anywhere near being, angrily spewing out a pile of personal insults and name-calling will still get your post deleted. Since we've talked to you a lot before, we will eventually get sick of having to take time out from other stuff to clean up your messes, and bannination will ensue. Since I'm a sweetie, I like to toss a warning (or twenty) before I push that button.

3) Why you would post any of this kind of stuff using an active character name is completely beyond me.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I THANK YOU KINDLY NOT TO IMPUGN THE HONOR OF THE Ăжə.