What's up with full looting? It seems like it's frowned upon by everyone, players, imms in their comments etc.

So if full looting is bad and we shouldn't do it, why does the code allow for it?

You kill monsters for loot, why would you not kill players for loot? It's a pretty simple concept. You win, you should be rewarded. If you lose, you should NOT be rewarded.

Nothing is worse than playing a PvP game where your only reward for winning is an increase to a counter that tracks how many kills and deaths you have. It's silly.

Having loss makes it more meaningful as well more scary. Nothing is better than shaking in your chair because you're about to have your heart ripped out of you and all your items potentially lost. If I have ZERO loss, then who cares. I win, I win, I lose, I win.

I started CF in 1994 back when I was finishing college.

Me and a friend played Trusty and Grumpy. Two fire giants that got to level 5 (10,000 exp was the pk threshold previously) and killed people walking around with mercs and full looted everyone. Stalked the pit for loot and everything. Basically being a complete ass. That was just the norm back a long time ago and you accepted it. I do not mind getting full looted. Gear while nice and fun to acquire is overrated to get back into it after getting looted. You can get a decent set of gear with decent weapons in 20 to 30 minutes. I feel this is all perspective. Not everyone has to have hummingbird pendants. Enjoy them when you get them, but do not get mad when you do not.

Glad I have evolved since those days.

It felt for a long time that every lvl 4 would sit at pits waiting for a hero to die. Good old days. Lol

There are many aspects of CF that only work because heavy/full looting is possible, and revamping looting would necessitate a lot of other changes we may or may not want to make but would regardless upset a lot of people in one camp or another.

Personally, I find that one of the few advantages CF has consistently had over other games (both new ones and those that have come and gone) is it's sheer ruthlessness, and I'd be hard pressed, if not downright sad, to water it down after almost a quarter of a century.

So basically, get rekt loser, and deal with it! /sarcasm

.

The rich will be stripped of their wealth, and it will be distributed among the poor. Such is the will of great Lenin.

But it has nothing to do with my question.

Phrased it poorly above: sac lag has zero effect on looting.

Well, I want to be able to fullsac you for being an ass as well.

nt

.

nt

Many (not all) players see it as punitive.

Gear isn't the only thing that matters in CF, but it's important. Starting from scratch obligates you to spend some amount of time gathering basic stuff, with the end result being inferior to where you were at before the loot. When someone puts you in that situation without deriving any personal benefit from it, it often means they're doing it expressly to inconvenience you. That is, to be punitive.

People differ on what the "benefit threshold" is past which looting becomes punitive. What if I'm taking a piece of gear to give to a friend? Give to a fellow cabal member? Sell for gold? Give to Tahren? Etc.

Personally, I err on the side of not looting unless the person has something I'm planning to wear or that I know I can trade to someone else for something I want.

To some extent this is self-serving. For one, it makes people less likely to loot me when I die. But, also, it makes people more willing to fight me and more willing to not be ultra-conservative, because they know they won't lose all their gear if they miscalculate and die.

What full looting?

I've been throwing myself against people, dying, and getting left almost everything. Usually everything. Occasionally the one thing I loose they can't use, but at the same time they have good reason to feel negatively towards the thing they can't use, because it is for an align diametrically opposed to them.

If you posted that log on dios whining about a full loot when you had some really great great left, you don't understand what a full loot is. I'd probably be asking myself why ragers left me such nice things if they couldn't use stuff that was missing. Could almost imply that your allies looted stuff they could use.

I am very much against full looting because it discourages risks, but I'm not seeing much of it and that log sure wasn't an example.

You may not use it often, but when a situation calls for it, you need to have it in your tool bag.

Enlilth gave me imm xp for fulling ragers on my Orc, but that was some time ago by now. I've pretty much gone to levels that most people consider griefing for long stretches of time and never been pulled aside for it. Remember when slipping butcher through corpseguard dumped the items on the ground? (remember when corpseguard wasn't as good either?).

I've always been pretty fine with dropping and receiving full loots, not even gonna have a comment about it if I get fulled.

I'll admit that what does kinda feel discouraging if they have the room/time to pick up your prep sack, since I find gold gathering and prep replacement a lot more tedious than getting a 8 minute set of regear and going back at it. Some warriors will need more time than that though.

I don't know. I pretty much quit playing over this in combination with the low numbers at the time. Most aren't willing to risk a fight where they don't have a significant advantage anymore and think their sets or pk ratios matter outside the context of taking risks and high overall pvp participation. Which they don't.

And forget full looting, it was to the point that people were flipping out about losing 5-6 things that are actually really good for you.

Honestly a lot of the people playing CF aren't really playing CF anymore, and they feel entitled to all sorts of #### that may as well be a different game, it's never been easier or less grindy.

Edit: There's a log just posted on Dio's where a guy gets half his #### back, including a choice gadget, and says he lost nearly all of it. Makes me laugh.

for me: it's just a respect for someone else's time spent

Honestly, I think it's more that the culture of the game has changed.
Back when I started playing, you ran back to your corpse with the odd
hope that maybe you had three pieces left, but otherwise expected it
to be empty. Now, there's a smaller playerbase (less people hoping
for free loot, etc), older playerbase that generally is aiming for
other things to do than regear, and in *my* opinion one of the worst
problems is a perception that you just can't compete with *far*
higher quality of gear than previously. Regear just doesn't "cut it"
for people, so they get crabby that now rather than just getting back
at it, they have to regear at all, AND have a perception that they
have to go after better (more time consuming) gear than they once
did. I do think the prevalence and consolidation of the truly
exceptional gear is causing some of this, and perhaps something of an
issue. Back when, red dragon and two nightwings had you in decent
shape against 90% of the game except maybe 2 out of 40 that had a
REALLY awesome suit. Now, those full suits seem more common.

All of that said, I don't believe the Immortals ever have any general
hatred of full looting when the gear's finding use. What WILL
almost certainly get you mocked is dishing out full loots when you
can't handle getting looted yourself. Also, (and this may vary
more individually) being classless and full looting JUST to be a
prick will get snarky comments at times, but I can't think of a
single situation in which a character's actually received punishment
beyond a snarky title at worst. It's part of the game, we want
gear circulation, it's more a culture deal.

I was intentionally breaking a different rule, but if I hadn't full looted (2!) people, it would have taken much longer to get denied, and possibly not have happened at all.

People get emotional about full loots because character power (and this is a power fantasy game) resides unduly in what you are carrying instead of what you are. It's pretty prevalent in all D&D derivative games, but nothing says it has to be. CF's version is especially harsh since limited items are a thing.

It's not frowned upon by everyone.

I encourage it.

If full looting isn't possible how do you know who your classy enemies are!?


>What's up with full looting? It seems like it's frowned upon
>by everyone, players, imms in their comments etc.
>
>So if full looting is bad and we shouldn't do it, why does the
>code allow for it?
>
>

How do you make 50lb of metal instantly vanish. I get that its a fantasy game a there's a whole lot of stuff that doesn't make sense.

What if sacrificing limited gear came with request like lag (maybe not as extreme) or even 3-4 round lag. Perhaps not lag at all, but you can only do one limited item per tick.

>How do you make 50lb of metal instantly vanish. I get that
>its a fantasy game a there's a whole lot of stuff that doesn't
>make sense.

It's silly that you can sacrifice (multiple!) items in a blink of an eye, as if it wasn't any kind of ritual at all. I'd say one round of lag per sacrifice would make sense, whilst maybe giving a bit of pause for the griefers as well and at least make them a bit vulnerable to others while they are at it (not to mention lose time themselves, too).

That said, everyone should remember that having one or two or six nice items looted after dying is nothing to get upset about.

Although I'd like to see people lagged when they are reborn at the temple altar so they can't just grab all their stuff before the guy that killed them unlags from the killing move.

But yes, I'd like to see a round of lag per item looted. So if you do a get all corpse you are leading yourself for a long time.

That also stops allies from safely grabbing your stuff to stop your killer getting it. I am fine with that.

If you die at your altar, you are lagged and there is a special echo.

I know, but I've killed people in their guild before and they are back greening their stuff before I unlag from a two round move.

The worst thing about being killed at the or itself is having to watch yourself be looted during that lag. Heh.

hurrying to grab your stuff once you unlag, and dying again to gear that damages you on pickup.

Realism wise the whole thing is wonky. I could see it actually taking less time to "get all" than to rummage through someone's corpse looking for a single item.

Assigning lag to the sacrifice of limited items isn't a bad idea, but it won't fully solve the problem.

Another possible idea: when doing a "get all" sort the items in order of least to most limited, then secondarily by most to least weight. Given weight and inventory restrictions this would render "get all" as non-beneficial as possible for the getter.

One issue with the above is that sometimes "get all" is completely legitimate. For instance, you attack a group of two and kill one guy but have to evacuate before killing his friend. Maybe you drop a "get all" on the first guy's corpse before running away, fully planning to sort through it later and return what you don't want.

Possible fix to the above: only invoke the "sorting" behavior when the getter is not currently in melee. This makes no sense from the perspective of realism, but that's true of a lot of things.

I’m sure it makes them chuckle.

They probably even have their own Imm memes of the best (douchiest) full loots they email around amongst themselves. ;p