Thief - lvl 7 | Died to Tarus | -%20 xp | deleted
Necro - lvl 8 | Noticed 3 other necros in who list | deleted
Ranger - lvl 8 | Died to lumberjack | -%22.5 xp | deleted

And that's just the past 2 days.

Feel free to continue the conversation, this thread's just reached a point in which any response clogs up the entire first page of the forums.

Open the "mob deaths" section.
Think how many of them would never achieve what they achieved if they had your ####ty attitude.

You piqued my curiosity. I pulled some prominent characters that died or deleted in the past year and looked at their pre-hero mob deaths:

Glikhardiz: 92 hours to hero, 5 mob deaths: 25, 25, 40, 50, 50
Garfuka: 64 hours to hero, 3 mob deaths: 38, 40, 41
Bakrmarr: 279 hours to hero, 2 mob deaths: 40, 40
Hunsodin: 67 hours to hero, 2 mob deaths: 9, 35
Kanlax: 81 hours to hero, 0 mob deaths
Illaeth: 181 hours to hero, 1 mob death: 29
Vramun: 207 hours to hero, 5 mob deaths: 2, 20, 35, 35, 35
Guais: 176 hours to hero, 9 mob deaths: 1, 10, 12, 12, 25, 25, 31, 42, 42
Gwildaththea: 115 hours to hero, 11 mob deaths: 7, 11, 20, 20, 29, 29, 33, 34, 34, 35, 41
Saxonjachs: 148 hours to hero, 8 mob deaths: 14, 26, 26, 26, 29, 36, 36
Thaedan: 107 hours to hero, 5 mob deaths: 18, 18, 21, 26, 41

nt

NT

nt

Some mob deaths are strategic for various reasons.

True. I left Jakhu out for that reason.

With he amount of time you have dedicated to this thread, you could have heroed multiple characters whilst eating several mob deaths each.

Me thinks you find forum trolling more interesting than playing.

I have had times where I've died at low level, third or below usually, and it's just easier to kill it and start over, generally speaking after that it's just silly unless you've lost your connection with the character or concept. Otherwise all dying to a mob means is you have to recoup the exp and you're one third of the way closer to losing a point of constitution. (Now sure if you do it several times, ie. recoup most of your exp and then die again just a few hundred from rank, that can be crushing.) But otherwise...

Deleting a character who has had Immteraction, has a role and so forth, again, unless you've lost your verve for them, is a reflection on you alone. It's not hard to recoup experience. If you're leveling alone, aim for days with an exp bonus, etc.

All of that being said, based on your response to most people and your unwillingness to actually entertain much less run with any suggestions, this whole thread comes off more as a cry for attention than either a legitimate gripe about the game or a solicitation for advice on alternative options.

I remember playing sans client with a drow ap fighting ragers who would kick in my wimpy or kill me while I was busily trying to type in c 'lightning bolt' (Like that would have helped me.) way back in the day. Buy more into the roleplay and adrenaline fun of the game.

First, thanks for all the suggestions. I have read every post and whether I responded directly, I do appreciate it. All of it. Even the condescending comments. Where would we be without drama?

I'm gonna try to respond to a lot of those comments and questions in what I hope is going to be my last post in this thread for a while. I'm spending too much time wording my replies and not enough time gaming. Hopefully, my next post in this thread will be to necro it back to life and point to my premium hero page where I died of old age.

Again, thanks and I will take it all to heart.

PK deficit - Yes, I'm aware it's not like it used to be. I do recall when it first came out, the more you died, the higher level enemies you had to deal with. Can't seem to shake that old system out of my head. I see the XP loss as a death sentence.

PK in groups - It's been a long while since I've had some of the situations I've described happen to me. Mostly because I've deleted before I've encountered them. But one fact I know for certain, RL humans have not changed much since I started playing. If they get a chance to massage their egos with an easy kill and still somehow claim it to be role-playing, they will. While this example isn't exactly proof, it does tell me that the whole RP thing still gets quickly thrown out the window on a whim... I had a Gnome the other day tossing 'your mom' sexual innuendo insults at my character because I snorted at them. Yea... right.

XP loss - So far, nobody has convinced me this is a good thing. While a pve death should have some negative effect on your character, IMHO the XP loss currently excessive. Whether I die while 5,000xp from level or 1xp from level, the loss should be the same. It currently isn't. And I don't think I can be convinced that this excessive setback is necessary on the first, second or even third pve death. I believe that if xp loss is needed it should be based on the number of pve deaths you've had. Little or no loss at first death and up to full level plus loss if you're a habitual kamikaze.

Pally role - This was before the new empowerment system came into play. At that time, I'm sure most of you know, there was no point going forward without empowerment. I still have that role and description saved. With the recent changes I may attempt to revive it and hopefully get a yes or no answer since it never really went anywhere.

Human assassin - I have played assassins in the past. I admit it has been quite a while and I think I got really stupid with the last one and made a DE. For a first hero class, I suppose it would work. I've just never been overly fond of that whole Asian/Ninja motif in a Tolkienesque fantasy world. Thanks and I shall study this suggestion further.

Trolling - Umm no. I don't troll. If there is a bug, glitch or random chance with astronomical odds that something incredibly rare, like a lvl 12 mob taking a 3rd attack to whack me dead or 100% skill in hide failing, it will happen to me. My closest friend has threatened to play, "Raindrops keep falling on my head." at my funeral.

Talking out my ass - Yes, you are correct. Not having hero'ed I can't say how much non-empowerment would affect characters especially with the new system. I can say this. I would NOT want to try to get a Druid to hero without transmute. At least not with my knowledge level.

Gear - I do know how to do item search and I search a lot. One issue I found, if it's a druid_only item, well that's because it's probably being worn by a druid. Kinda hard to RP being a druid and beating another druid's ass for his staff especially when one of the major 'nature' religions frowns on just that sort of activity. Most of the items that you guys named, I do know where to get and I do get them. Some, I'm only aware of their existence.

Again, thanks.

You were clearly being purposely rude. As an observant gnome I recognized that and returned the favor. I did not feel that it was OOC to insult someone who just insulted me. But given your recent troubles, why didn't you just ask me to group? I would have shown you plenty to help you.

civilized <100%hp 100%m 100%mv 1480tnl (31.48%) 1 AM>
Bromlain looks at you.

civilized <100%hp 100%m 100%mv 1480tnl (31.48%) 1 AM> tip
You tip your hat gallantly.

civilized <100%hp 100%m 100%mv 1480tnl (31.48%) 1 AM>
Bromlain snorts.

civilized <100%hp 100%m 100%mv 1480tnl (31.48%) 1 AM>
Bromlain leaves west.

civilized <100%hp 100%m 100%mv 1480tnl (31.48%) 1 AM> tell bro Who are you snorting at?
You tell Bromlain 'Who are you snorting at?'

civilized <100%hp 100%m 100%mv 1480tnl (31.48%) 1 AM>
Bromlain tells you 'Did you see anyone there other than us?'

civilized <100%hp 100%m 100%mv 1480tnl (31.48%) 3 AM> reply Just your mom.
You tell Bromlain 'Just your mom.'

civilized <100%hp 100%m 100%mv 1480tnl (31.48%) 3 AM>
Bromlain has arrived.

civilized <100%hp 100%m 100%mv 1480tnl (31.48%) 3 AM>
Bromlain says 'really?'

civilized <100%hp 100%m 100%mv 1480tnl (31.48%) 3 AM> snort
You snort.

civilized <100%hp 100%m 100%mv 1480tnl (31.48%) 3 AM> say She left
You say 'She left'

civilized <100%hp 100%m 100%mv 1480tnl (31.48%) 3 AM>
Bromlain says 'are you seriously going there?'

civilized <100%hp 100%m 100%mv 1480tnl (31.48%) 3 AM>
Bromlain says 'seriously???'

civilized <100%hp 100%m 100%mv 1480tnl (31.48%) 4 AM> pnorth
You point in a northerly direction.

civilized <100%hp 100%m 100%mv 1480tnl (31.48%) 4 AM> say I'm not going anywhere...it's your mom that left.
You say 'I'm not going anywhere...it's your mom that left.'

civilized <100%hp 100%m 100%mv 1480tnl (31.48%) 4 AM> pnorth
You point in a northerly direction.

civilized <100%hp 100%m 100%mv 1480tnl (31.48%) 4 AM>
Bromlain says 'for someone with proclaimed wisdom you certainly act like a child.'

civilized <100%hp 100%m 100%mv 1480tnl (31.48%) 4 AM>
Bromlain leaves west.

civilized <100%hp 100%m 100%mv 1480tnl (31.48%) 4 AM> say If you're looking for her.
You say 'If you're looking for her.'

civilized <100%hp 100%m 100%mv 1480tnl (31.48%) 6 AM>
Bromlain has arrived.

civilized <100%hp 100%m 100%mv 1480tnl (31.48%) 6 AM>
Bromlain says 'for someone with proclaimed wisdom you certainly act like a child.'

civilized <100%hp 100%m 100%mv 1480tnl (31.48%) 6 AM> reply A half-drow wouldn't know true wisdom if it bit him.
Bromlain is ignoring you.

Shoulda told him he left the wrong way.

That's how you make deadly enemies IC, hilarious.

She had to go to the chamber of fate to discuss it.

At least I didn't say that.

Oh wait, the arrogance. I forgot.

First, sorry about the spam, that was me cycling back through the command buffer and missing the one I wanted. It was not intended.

However...

Seriously? You degraded that whole interaction into a grade school 'yer mom' insult and you think I'd ask you for a group? My RP reasons for being aloof to your choice of race, not rudeness, were my own. But if that's the kind of creative RP response I can expect from CF players these days I need to quit now. That... in all the years I've spent deleting characters... was the LAMEST excuse I have ever seen on CF for RP. Was I insulted? Hardly. You'll have to be a lot more ingenious than that to piss me off. Was I disgusted to think that CF might have deteriorated to the point that this was acceptable RP? Hugely.

Your RP was arguably worse than his.

Were his actions childish? Absolutely, but he's roleplaying the equivelant of a Gnome teenager. Depending upon his role, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. You honestly have no idea what role he's playing.. maybe it's a brain-damaged Gnome with an obsession with his own mother? Maybe he's just a prankster teenager that's trying to rile you up. Both are perfectly feasible roles.

However, you clearly were not roleplaying at all. Using multiple question marks isn't a roleplay device, it's OOC frustration/annoyance bleeding into the game. And you telling him he has proclaimed wisdom? Did he ever proclaim it, or are you basing that on what you know to be his wisdom stat? That isn't exactly stellar RP. Does your character somehow know more about Gnomish culture than an actual Gnome? Maybe you could say "Hm. And I thought all Gnomes were mature and wise. I must have been wrong." That would make more sense, IC.

In the future, it is never appropriate to challenge someone else's roleplay IC. It just isn't possible. You don't know what role he's playing. Just role with it as your character would.

And if this is the acceptable RP I can expect from CF, I'll leave now.

Please explain how someone talking about someone else's mother IC (IC you do have a mother, after all), is worse RP than yours in that log?

Or asked another way: Do you honestly believe that you were roleplaying your character for the duration of that log?

I'll be honest: I think his comment was pretty terrible, and I'd probably roll my eyes and ignore it if I saw it in-game. But your response was worse, in my opinion.

>Please explain how someone talking about someone else's
>mother IC (IC you do have a mother, after all), is worse RP
>than yours in that log?
>
>Or asked another way: Do you honestly believe that you were
>roleplaying your character for the duration of that log?
>
>I'll be honest: I think his comment was pretty terrible, and
>I'd probably roll my eyes and ignore it if I saw it in-game.
>But your response was worse, in my opinion.

One reason I come to CF is because it IS RP. I come to CF to escape that exact type of lame, juvenile, unintelligent, pathetic trolling that I see every single day on multiple forums. If I was dumbfounded to the point that you think using multiple punctuation marks threw me out of character, then you can DEFINITELY expect to see me OOC again should I need to express my utter disbelief that this exists in CF.

Period.

Is that everyone is playing their own character.

The point isn't for everyone to play a character that you like. You will ALWAYS run into characters that annoy you and frustrate you. Just like real life. You can't control or predict how other people will act.

If your intent is to escape from personalities that irritate you, you're playing the wrong kind of game.

n/t

You want people to behave in the way you expect them to behave. I'm telling you that the best part of a roleplaying game is that you can't predict how someone is going to play.

There will always be people that annoy you, in this game and in real life. If this is how you respond to an annoying character, coupled with how you've already demonstrated you respond to relatively modest setbacks, I don't think you'll ever be able to have fun here.

So you'll need to either change your expectations, change your reactions, or change to a different game. I don't think there's much else anyone can tell you here.

This is a case of bringing a childish 20th century earth troll in to a fantasy RP game.

There are also "Your mom" retorts in the Bible and in Shakespeare.

Making jokes about someone's mother is not something new, and certainly not something that occurs strictly in the 20th century.

Mothers exist in Carrion Fields, just like anywhere else. Joking about them isn't somehow inherently wrong.

>Mothers exist in Carrion Fields, just like anywhere else.

This is a troll thread right? Then mother's don't exist in CF. I see no evidence of it. Babies exist, but they never grow up. Children are all the same. Time passes, but only in the marking of a calendar. Maybe some NPC's have mothers, but most PC's don't.

Except Minotaur's, but all their mothers are dead.

Minotaur's what?

I can understand that that was not a response you were expecting. But, insulting someone's mom did not begin in the 20th century. In fact the first historical record of someone insulting another's mom happened the minute two people were on this earth with different mothers.

But, you felt that it was not IC enough. Fair point. BUT, your response was definitely 20th century parlance: "Really? Are you seriously going there?" You seemed to break role to criticize what you saw as bad RP. That's irony. So, if you can commit to doing better I will as well.

Also, I deleted that char after our exchange because it left a bad taste for me. And I had a full set of leathers!

I can see how my response can easily be considered OOC as well though it was not the intent. My response was from being utterly dumbfounded and that was just the first thing that came to mind.

Will commit to doing better.

http://www.pompeiana.org/Resources/Ancient/Graffiti%20from%20Pompeii.htm

Nt

>Human assassin - I have played assassins in the past. I admit
>it has been quite a while and I think I got really stupid with
>the last one and made a DE. For a first hero class, I suppose

Stick to human, arial or felar. Most people opt for human. Since you hate the XP grind, being human also helps with that.

You honestly seem like you don't want help at this point.

PK Deficit - Step 1: Stop complaining about something that you know isn't true. Remind yourself every time "This actually helps my PK range". That simple.

PK in Groups - Again, you're talking about a theoretical possibility. I don't even remember the last time that someone tried that trick. Everyone (Imms, other players) hate it and hold it against you. Even Battle apps find other tricks nowadays. It isn't even a risk worth considering, honestly.

XP Loss - No one is trying to convince you. They're telling you that they think you're wrong. They (The Immstaff) believe that the XP loss is a necessary result of mob deaths. If you don't like it, you can either quit CF, Imm and lobby for it to change, or just accept it.

Two more points:
It takes less experience to go from level 5 (+20%) to level 6, than it does to go from level 1 to level 6. That will literally always be true. Outside of a mob-death at lvl 1, there is no XP hole that makes deleting and restarting a reasonable option when your only concern is XP.

Additionally, Con is not as important as it used to be. You get full HP gains with +con gear, you don't even need to keep your natural Con maxxed anymore.

Given those two facts (actual facts, not outdated opinions), there is absolutely zero reason to delete due to a mob-death. It's a minor nuisance, but less of a nuisance than starting from scratch.


But honestly, all of this has been said before, and you've continually chosen to ignore it. If you can't handle a minor inconvenience like a mob death, you'll definitely never be able to handle a 5-man gank squad or getting your favorite gear looted. This game probably isn't for you. Stick to Call of Duty.

He makes a step forward with arms wide open and you push agressively instead of highfiving.

Half-Drow lvl 12 Druid.

Immertraction at lvl 9. Got a lil quest from an Imm and received a skill pendant.

Role bonus. Got more Imm skill gains.

200xp from level 13. My chosen Imm was online and I needed lvl 13 for the forage before I went looking for his shrine. I was abstaining from money and buying food in cities. Spent the entire day eating apples, pears and stupid grubs.

Lumberjacks in the Weald. Had been killing them for hours trying to level up. And then... one hits me 12 times in a row with one being a triple hit in one round. Wimpy fails to kick in and spamming mend couldn't keep up. Flee? Nope.

Result - Dead. 6000xp to level

Nope... #### that.

Delete/delete

I spent pretty much the entire day soloing this char in absolute crap gear killing Aldervari guards. Took me 2 hours to get lvl 12 xp from 4500 down to 200xp doing pathetic 'hit' damage, spam mend, hit damage, disarmed, spam mend... and then, I get THAT CLOSE and get screwed over by a mob that doesn't even have third attack?

Had this just been a death with no xp loss... I'd have picked myself up, dusted myself off and charged forward. Instead, I was looking at least another 2 hours of doing crap damage just to get back to where I was.

No. Just... no.

NT

AH HAH... good question... ready for this?

The ENTIRE who list looked like an Imperial party.

No joke. At one point I counted EIGHT of them online, myself and 2 still in the academy.

I think you're exaggerating, but point taken, sometimes you just can't find a group.

I guess I can only give one piece of advice then; to paraphrase Jerrokrar: the single most important thing about solo ranking is to not mob die.

nt

For example, it is easier than not age-dying.

When I was a newbie, I expressed concern about limited lifespans. I was reluctant to pour effort into a character, knowing that it will just die off at some point.

People kept telling me it's not a problem and that only 1% of characters make it to age death anyway. Except in my case it's more like 75%.

I used to ask on the forums to remove age death from the game, just the way you're asking to remove XP loss.

Other characters will show you all kinds of things to help you. I've been playing for over two decades, but took about 5+ years off one time. I felt rather clueless when I returned. Sought out someone who clearly knew what they were doing (in this case a necro) and basically gave him 200 gold to let me carry his luggage while following him around for a good portion of my chars life and learning a lot of what he knew.

The forum is no substitute for IC help.

>Had this just been a death with no xp loss... I'd have picked
>myself up, dusted myself off and charged forward. Instead, I
>was looking at least another 2 hours of doing crap damage just
>to get back to where I was.

Look at it this way: how long did it take you to get to where you were before you died? Probably more than 2 hours, right? That's called "sunk cost". Post-mob-death, you could delete, re-roll, and re-rank back up to the same point, but it's going to cost you more time than just ranking out of your existing XP hole. Especially since you may need to create a brand new description and role. That's why, to me, deleting doesn't make much sense.

Also, consider that with a decent group, at that rank, it should only take you around 20 minutes to get 6k XP.

Couple other things I'm be curious about:

1. How are you dying to that mob if it isn't lagging you and doesn't do burst damage? What was your wimpy set at? If not at 50%, consider keeping it at 50% at all times. Were you stacking a ton of "mend wounds" commands on top of each other and preventing yourself from manually fleeing?

2. You mentioned your melee attacks landing for "hit". Druids aren't great at melee, but that still seems extreme. Possible to wear more +DAM?

3. How often do you think one "should" mob die? Would you delete over a mob death at level 15? 20? 30? 40? Just curious what your threshold is. Do you expect to hero without ever mob dying?

>Look at it this way: how long did it take you to get to where
>you were before you died? Probably more than 2 hours, right?
>That's called "sunk cost". Post-mob-death, you could delete,
>re-roll, and re-rank back up to the same point, but it's going
>to cost you more time than just ranking out of your existing
>XP hole. Especially since you may need to create a brand new
>description and role. That's why, to me, deleting doesn't
>make much sense.

I think this quote is from the show NCIS: "a slap in the back of the head is a wake-up call. A slap in the face is an insult." I see XP loss is an insult.

>Also, consider that with a decent group, at that rank, it
>should only take you around 20 minutes to get 6k XP.

Key word. Decent. I could spend a dozen paragraphs detailing how many times I showed up for groups and ended up dying to them. If I don't have a huge fondness for groups, especially at low levels with 'unknowns,' there's a damned good reason.

>Couple other things I'm be curious about:
>
>1. How are you dying to that mob if it isn't lagging you and
>doesn't do burst damage? What was your wimpy set at? If not
>at 50%, consider keeping it at 50% at all times. Were you
>stacking a ton of "mend wounds" commands on top of each other
>and preventing yourself from manually fleeing?

Wimpy was at 30. I did fine for about 3/4 of the fight. Wasn't spamming myself to death. Dirt, kick, kick, mend... it was doing 'hit' damage the entire time. Then, for 3 rounds it did double 'hit' damage and knocked me down to 40%. Then, it did triple 'hit' damage which went right past my wimpy to 6%, then, before I could manually flee... double 'hit' damage and dead. Meanwhile I'm trying to mend through the damage and failed 5 times in a row.

>2. You mentioned your melee attacks landing for "hit". Druids
>aren't great at melee, but that still seems extreme. Possible
>to wear more +DAM?

LOL. Try to solo find non-metal gear for a Druid. And to make it more fun, have the server crash so there's no 'crap' lying around.
I went everywhere from the Frigid Wastes to Evermoon and back again looking for gear.

>3. How often do you think one "should" mob die? Would you
>delete over a mob death at level 15? 20? 30? 40? Just
>curious what your threshold is. Do you expect to hero without
>ever mob dying?

The number of times is irrelevant. It's the amount of punishment you receive as a result of mob deaths. Con loss... yes, that needs to happen. CF is one of the few games out there where characters do really die and I love that concept. XP loss? That's punishment. Not only do you have to spend the time making up for that loss, it affects your PK range.

If XP loss HAS to happen, it shouldn't be 125% of your level on the first death. If I had just made level and died I would have lost %20-25% of my level. Ok.. that would piss me off but I've kept characters where I've done that. Dying just 200xp from level and getting set back a full 125%? ####. Make it based on the number of times a character has died. Your first PVE death? Ok. We're just gonna ding your con for 1/3 of a point. You die again, we'll set you back the con + 10% of your level's xp. Die 3 times? 25%. 4 times? 50%. It should be a graduated, logarithmic scale. It should NOT be a huge slap in the face every single time you pve die. Become habitual at dying? Yea, this is gonna hurt.

Whatever my excuse was for dying, one screw-up on my part, one case of lagging out in the middle of a fight, one case of your cat jumping on the keyboard and hitting ctl-alt-del, one case of fleeing from one goblin and having 2 more pop up in the room you just fled into (yep, almost died to that too) should NOT cripple your character with a PK range hit and it should not make you look at your character's XP % and even consider deleting.

Dying to a mob is not an insult. Mobs don't talk smack (not much anyway), they don't loot (with the exception of a certain axe-wielding demon) and they are pretty chill about the whole thing.

>LOL. Try to solo find non-metal gear for a Druid.
http://www.carrionfields.net/itemsearch/

And for the Nth time, it does not cripple your PK range. Cut it out.

>Key word. Decent. I could spend a dozen paragraphs detailing how many
>times I showed up for groups and ended up dying to them. If I don't
>have a huge fondness for groups, especially at low levels
>with 'unknowns,' there's a damned good reason.

Asking someone to group and then attacking them is exceedingly rare (and considered extremely bad form). If it happened to you a dozen times, then either you are seriously pissing people off, or you are just lying to us.

Seriously, every other post from you sounds like huge exaggeration. Either you're self-delusional about how difficult ranking is (and you set yourself up for failure), or you're just trolling.

A few people have said it already, but you don’t get pushed into a higher pk range if you lose xp. It’s the opposite, where someone that could harm you when you were close to level now will not be able to harm you since your loss of xp. The experience range differences are based only on race/class. So if pk range is a bother for you play human or halfie, their pk ranges are very forgiving. You will be the over levelled one in most cases. Again, xp holes remove the concept you earned which reduces the high level players that can harm you. It doesn’t just add a higher xp cost to get your level. That would mean that people who die a lot to mobs would always be against better and better players. That makes no sense, and isn’t how the system works.

Try human assassin, they have a great skill set and are comfortable to solo with. I have seen brutal noobs in the past who have heroes with them with very little trouble. Your pk range coming up will be filled with people that have poor odds against your level advantage, so outside of other humans and halfies you should be in a good position to choose which fights you want to take. If it’s such a frustration take the easy way to get the hang of it, there’s no shame in that. I just finished my first halfie hero assassin, I’m not a very good player and I had very few problems.

>> LOL. Try to solo find non-metal gear for a Druid. And to make it more fun, have the server crash so there's no 'crap' lying around.

This gear is attainable by level 10. Once you hit 15-20 you can kill/scavenge/quest up some big upgrades.

If you know where to kill/pick up barter items, you can get some good stuff from the Bramblefield merchants.

<worn on finger> an opal ring
<worn on finger> an opal ring
<worn around neck> a fine leather cloak
<worn around neck> a fine leather cloak
<worn on body> blood stained furs (goblin village)
<worn on head> jaunty white sailor's hat (experienced sailor, Seaport)
<worn on face> bone mask (troglodyte caverns)
<worn on legs> fine leather leggings
<worn on feet> spiked climbing boots (feanwyn weald)
<worn on hands> Studded leather gloves from aldevari
<worn on arms> black leather sleeves (tarus)
<worn about body> fine leather cape
<worn about waist> fine leather belt
<worn around wrist> charred leather bracer (tarus)
<worn around wrist> charred leather bracer (tarus)
<mainhand wielded> upgraded academy weapon OR massive truncheon (sewers of galadon)
<worn as shield/held in hand> academy quest buckler OR bloody orb (forest of nowhere blood beasts)

>I think this quote is from the show NCIS: "a slap in the back
>of the head is a wake-up call. A slap in the face is an
>insult." I see XP loss is an insult.

So does that mean you intend to always delete each time you mob die unless you're already a hero, in which case there's XP loss? That is, you'll only ever hero if you get all the way to 51 without a single mob death? Good luck with that.

I couldn't handle that because it would mean the vast majority of my playing time would be spent ranking. Playing a single character at a time until age death means you spend no more than 10% of your CF time grinding XP. Deleting every time you mob die means you spend around 90% of your time grinding XP. Don't know about you, but ranking isn't my favorite thing to do. I'll take the 10% over the 90%.

>Key word. Decent. I could spend a dozen paragraphs detailing
>how many times I showed up for groups and ended up dying to
>them. If I don't have a huge fondness for groups, especially
>at low levels with 'unknowns,' there's a damned good reason.

As others have said, that's pretty rare. It's been years since I've had that happen to me. Granted I don't often play mages, and they probably have to deal with that more than other classes.

>Wimpy was at 30. I did fine for about 3/4 of the fight.
>Wasn't spamming myself to death. Dirt, kick, kick, mend...
>it was doing 'hit' damage the entire time. Then, for 3 rounds
>it did double 'hit' damage and knocked me down to 40%. Then,
>it did triple 'hit' damage which went right past my wimpy to
>6%, then, before I could manually flee... double 'hit' damage
>and dead. Meanwhile I'm trying to mend through the damage and
>failed 5 times in a row.

So here's your solution going forward: keep wimpy at 50%. If you ever dip below 50% then your very next command should be "flee" and not "co mend wounds".

Also, consider not fighting lumberjacks. Depending on what your role allows, as a druid, there are at least 4 places I'd probably try first before Feanwyn Weald.

>LOL. Try to solo find non-metal gear for a Druid. And to
>make it more fun, have the server crash so there's no 'crap'
>lying around.

Someone else in this thread posted some gear suggestions. Your particular situation is complicated by the fact that you can't spend gold. Here's what I might look for as a druid if I wanted +DAM:

2x opal ring (4 dam)
2x wool cloak / ruby locket (2 dam)
storm giant ribcage (1 dam)
storm giant skull (1 dam)
steel reinforced elf-skin leggings (1 dam)
steel reinforced dwarf-skin boots (1 dam)
steel reinforced elf-skin armguards (1 dam)
some studded leather work gloves (1 dam)
a belt made from elf scalps (1 dam)
cloak/robes/cape from bramblefield (1 dam)
2x charred leather (2 dam)

The stuff from the Tower of Sorcery won't always be there on the ground, but it often will be. Some of the the things you can get from the Bramblefield merchants by bartering are equivalent or better. The above is 16 dam plus whatever you get from your base STR, weapon and held item.

nt

n/t

You're going to have a bad time with player characters.

You can easily speed up solo-levelling by using the proper equipment.

Gearing for AC will make it so that most mobs consistently miss you until level 19-20.

Gearing for damroll will let you hit for more than just 'hits'.

A mixture of the two will get you excellent results.

When playing a character with both healing spells and offensive skills, it is often more efficient to flee and heal up at a distance, than spam heals in a fight. In your situation, fleeing 3-5 rooms away in a straight line before to mend wounds would enable you to use kick to speed things up.

I think you'd learn skills conducive to pushing past your current barriers, if you'd just stick it out.

how about reading FAQs? Figuring about armor class? I guess no.

Some specific tips.

Not sure if you have telluric surge at level 12 but that kills lumberjacks super fast. At least in the camp and around the river.

Also if they have a metal weapon it stops them hitting you much.

But...

When you have no defenses the secret at low level is to get your ac as low as you can. AC matters more than hp for killing mobs and melee characters at those ranks. Rings from hamsah port are best for this. Entwined rings of citrine and something from a shopping in the covered section in the north of hamsah docks, plus carapace, plus max your dex.

Also vs a mob never get sucked into trying to finish it off. People tend to do this when close to a rank so actually die more close to a rank when actively ranking. Flee, move a bit away, heal up, walk back and re-engage somewhere where no mob will assist the one angry with you. And actually, if your account is good, you could walk away from a lumberjack without being in much danger.

But yeah, telluric surge wipes them out fast. Means you will gain experience at a respectable rate there. Just don't attack the mob with the wand, or the gnome, without being aware that ac alone will not protect you from them because they use magic spells or wands. In general telluric surge requires your enemy to be wearing metal armor to hurt them. Not so in the weald. Or at least most of it.

>Half-Drow lvl 12 Druid.
>
>Immertraction at lvl 9. Got a lil quest from an Imm and
>received a skill pendant.
>
>Role bonus. Got more Imm skill gains.
>
>200xp from level 13. My chosen Imm was online and I needed
>lvl 13 for the forage before I went looking for his shrine. I
>was abstaining from money and buying food in cities. Spent
>the entire day eating apples, pears and stupid grubs.
>
>Lumberjacks in the Weald. Had been killing them for hours
>trying to level up. And then... one hits me 12 times in a row
>with one being a triple hit in one round. Wimpy fails to kick
>in and spamming mend couldn't keep up. Flee? Nope.
>
>Result - Dead. 6000xp to level
>
>Nope... #### that.
>
>Delete/delete

That's your problem. Everything after this is irrelevant. It just isn't a big deal, but you're making it one. This thread already is way too long. The game includes dying. That's it. It's not a big deal, it's incredibly easy to get xp, and really it can be a gift so you have more time to practice skills and spells and sups.

It's not the game's fault here, it's yours. And that's fine, if your mind set is you must have everything perfect, and zero deviation from some mental map, ok. But then this isn't your game. Personally I'd hope you stay and ease up on yourself, but that's entirely your choice.

Wait till 10 to gather your lowbie set, aside from ac if you want it. It really doesn’t matter before that, because generally there aren’t any mobs that you NEED that stuff for. Sometimes I will gather things before then, but mostly out of boredom. I’ve had Tarus tool me a time or ten as well, sometimes he does just get kick bash kick in three rounds and actually hits his bash, just gotta shrug it off. Good/evil are nice for getting out of control holes, but they aren’t necessary by any means. As someone with not much experience at hero level I can tell you that it’s going to be a struggle and a learning experience whether you died to a couple mobs or not. You have to want to do it and then commit. Paladins are ridiculously easy to hero, and are very good solo if that is an issue. If you are really having a hard time getting hero and genuinely want to, I would put them at the top of my recommended classes.

Fine leather armor + superior practice weapon + 2x opal rings.

If you're evil, maybe make a couple trips to Velkyn Oloth to see if there's anything on the ground.

Possibly also Eryn Galen, Drogran Hills & Azuremain for weapons.

Sometimes it's convenient to do this at level 9 so you can recall back to your home town instead of walking.

nt

Dwarf paladin. Soloed to Lvl 19. Not empowered and it seems everyone knew that and wouldn't group with a cripple.

Had a great description that was utterly unique. Had a role describing that description that any fiction writer would have drooled over. Spent two weeks logging in, praying, sending notes, collecting 'gifts', writing e-mails, checking the forums, checking the wizlist daily. And...

Nothing. No note reply, no e-mail reply, not even a, "come back later" from any of the staff.\

Delete/delete

Now, before you quote me that Imms have lives too, I'm fully aware of this fact. I have one too when I'm not playing CF. And before you assume I'm some teenager with a fixation on instant gratification... nope. I'm a lot older than that. And when you suggest, "just play another character till they do respond," Good suggestion with one exception. I had put HOURS and HOURS into this character before I even logged on the first time just to be put in limbo. Be damned if I was gonna put that effort into two characters at once and suddenly have them both... or neither.

NT

However, an essential supp, transmute metal to wood, is stripped from Druids, Shaman have no paths and Paladins have no virtues. Yes it is optional and I am truly glad to see that change. If you want to experiment with an empowered class before investing the time and effort into a role, it's perfect. Levelling one to Hero? Sadistic.

Given the stage you're at, worrying about not getting a virtue is... strange.

You don’t need any virtues to hero. -1 level shops aren’t going to make as big amid a difference on mobs. Paladins are set up well even with no virtues, and I don’t see any one virtue as essential to ranking. Paths and virtues are nice, but both of those classes can manage fine without.

I don’t mean to seem condescending, but I have to ask how you know it would be sadistic if you haven’t had a paladin past rank 19? Paladins are so easy to rank with that I, as a 1.2 on the Thaedan Scale, can likely get one to 25 in within 3 hours. There are players here that could be there much faster. I have to sit on my hands ranking-wise with a pally, otherwise I would outpace all of my lowbie RP goals.

What sphere, what imm, and were you praying during the times listed in wizlist?

>What sphere, what imm, and were you praying during the times
>listed in wizlist?

I'll refrain from answering the first two because that Imm is apparently active as I have seen them recently. This pally I'm referring to was probably a year or more ago.

As for times? Yes. And even if I wasn't I sent notes and e-mails with logs of the prayers and 'actions' I was performing.

Fair enough. The main things I was looking for there are: a. was the imm listed in the "dormant" section of the wizlist at the time, b. was your sphere one of the ones assigned to that imm, c. were you praying during the times listed in wizlist, and d. did your class/align make sense for the imm.

A paladin praying to an evil deity, for instance, might get ignored.

>Fair enough. The main things I was looking for there are: a.
>was the imm listed in the "dormant" section of the wizlist at
>the time, b. was your sphere one of the ones assigned to that
>imm, c. were you praying during the times listed in wizlist,
>and d. did your class/align make sense for the imm.
>
>A paladin praying to an evil deity, for instance, might get
>ignored.

a. no
b. yes
c. yes
d. Not traditionally but the role tied it all together very nicely. Pally praying to a neutral. If I was accepted, I expected a lot of pain in the arse rules. The least I was hoping for was a 'piss off' response. Then I would have at least known to move on.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but...

You kind of seem like you're stuck in a "woe is me" funk. Instead of taking the steps to overcome your dilemma, you look to make excuses for your shortcomings instead of changing the way you go about playing. This is a very common reaction to criticism, but hopefully you can take a deep breath and see yourself working through it to a positive result.

Honestly, though, ranking is not THAT hard. Giant mercenaries will help you out a ton once you can buy one, making solo leveling doable as pretty much any class. Dying silly deaths happens to the best of us, just keep trucking. I don't sweat CON that much, you'll have plenty of trains for it as you rank up to make it a non-issue unless you're seriously suicidal.

Roll with the punches, man... Don't go straight to the canvas like a punk!

CF, like most things in life, gets easier the more you do it.

I don’t mean this to sound as if I’m being an ass but your post gave me a good chuckle. Only because our points of view are pretty different. What’s causing you issues are things that I wouldn’t bat an eye at. But that’s only because I’ve gotten through it. I can remember a time when I couldn’t seem to get past level 25. Then one day I managed to and got to hero. Making hero seemed so much easier after that so I say keep trucking.

CF is a game set up to have failures. They’re inevitable. Everyone gets PKd. Mob deaths happen.

The beauty about CF is when you have figured something out there is always a new challenge around the corner. Today you are worrying about how to simply level up. Then you figure that out and tomorrow you might be worrying how to do it more efficiently or gear better or finding out the best way to practice up a certain pesky skill.

Just don’t get discouraged and don’t be shy about asking for help. Either in game or on the forums.

The best indicator of success is not how well you can avoid adversity, it's how well you can recover from it.

>The best indicator of success is not how well you can avoid
>adversity, it's how well you can recover from it.

When CF kicks you repeatedly in the teeth, you can delete and reroll. Unless, of course, you're into reincarnation and even that's possible.

Sure, but the player behind the new char is no better at handling the kick in the teeth that will inevitably happen to the new char. And the cycle repeats itself.

>Sure, but the player behind the new char is no better at
>handling the kick in the teeth that will inevitably happen to
>the new char. And the cycle repeats itself.

The old Matrik that was. Not this "Matrik-" wannabe.

If you were ever to reach hero, the same attitude that motivates you to delete after a mob death at level 7 would probably motivate you to delete the first time you died and were looted because you made a dumb mistake.

Key insight: everybody makes mistakes sometimes.

If you actually want to hero, which may not be the case, there's an easy way to achieve this. Don't delete. (Duh). It's easier/quicker to get out of an xp hole than it is to re-roll and rank back up to where you were before you died.

Worst case you make it to hero with ~3 less trains (or 30 fewer hp, if you want to look at it that way) than you might have if you never died. Big deal?

Ignore ktasida.

There are valid reasons to kill lumberjacks, and not just for rp reasons. For some they are an optimal ranking choice. But he wouldn't realise that because his game knowledge is limited to specific things that appeal to him. For example, as a druid you will get most mileage from telluric surge fighting in the weald

Firstly, don't get hung up on an expert penalty. Honestly, the penalty always seems worse than it is. The will be times that exp just pours in and that penalty will take less than 30 mins to overcome. Maybe even less than 10. Plus your skills will be better for the delay.

Basically an expert own is not a big thing.

Having 3 necros in range is not a big thing because is are some will rank fast and some will choose to sit at different levels. So you are unlikely to share a range with them all for long.

Gosh I hate your lot giving stupid advices in a kind manner so that other people don't progress as players. Ranking in Feanwyn. Why don't you propose ranking on Eastern Road instead?

>Gosh I hate your lot giving stupid advices in a kind manner
>so that other people don't progress as players. Ranking in
>Feanwyn. Why don't you propose ranking on Eastern Road
>instead?

I'd rather take their kind yet stupid advice and get my ass kicked yet again than listen to your holier-than-thou condescending advice.

Frags don't smell.

I've told him time and time again that he lords over people when "giving advice" but he just says I'm dumb and boring and ignores any advice I give. He's rather hypocritical, and boring(lol, full circle). Just a friendly FYI.

n/t

1. Because eastern isn't wilderness.
2. Because, countering your point about it never being a good place to rank, it does suit some classes. Telluric surge works on mobs without metal there and does high damage at the time you might learn from lumberjacks.
3. I can see lumberjack hunting being appropriate for rp reasons too. Lots of roles would likely have issues with lumberjacks.
4. There is actually some interesting gear to be had from lumberjacks, which is good for the level you get it at if you rank on them.
5. Because it is an area you are unlikely to be caught pants down in as a wilderness class.

>5. Because it is an area you are unlikely to be caught pants
>down in as a wilderness class.

A wilderness area with civilized roads crossing it in two directions. Yeah, totally unlikely.

You rank on the ones in the camp or river. Not close to the east west edges of the area so you aren't close to the road.

The camp has CIVILIZED road branching south from the crumbling and is mostly plains, not forest. Great advice.

You ignore FAQs and try dumb things. Like I've never ever killed a lumberjack in 3 years of playing CF. That's pointless. Dying to Tarus as a thief shows you don't understand basics of combat mechanics (not to mention you don't need damroll on lv 7 so who cares about Tarus?).

And the necro thing - that's not about game, it's about you only. So the reasons for your deletes is simple - you aim to be awesome, but you don't even try.

I kill him all the time for 10hp sleeves with just about every class. Best in slot for awhile for most classes that you can gather yourself until quest armwear.

But I agree... I usually kill him around lvl 10. 7 is early and with a stealth class you should be able to get away and get to the in area healer...

5hp 1dr, zero risk.

>I kill him all the time for 10hp sleeves with just about
>every class. Best in slot for awhile for most classes that you
>can gather yourself until quest armwear.
>
>But I agree... I usually kill him around lvl 10. 7 is early
>and with a stealth class you should be able to get away and
>get to the in area healer...

Yep, I go for the sleeves too. And 2 kicks, flee, hide... hide didn't work, half a second later he arrives, one more kick... dead.

Playing for over 10 years and not perfecting hide the moment you get it. Should I bother to prove my point further?

>Playing for over 10 years and not perfecting hide the moment
>you get it. Should I bother to prove my point further?

You assume that because it's perfected that it can't fail. Need I prove my point further?

Cool story bro.

n/t

>You ignore FAQs and try dumb things. Like I've never ever
>killed a lumberjack in 3 years of playing CF. That's
>pointless. Dying to Tarus as a thief shows you don't
>understand basics of combat mechanics (not to mention you
>don't need damroll on lv 7 so who cares about Tarus?).
>
>And the necro thing - that's not about game, it's about you
>only. So the reasons for your deletes is simple - you aim to
>be awesome, but you don't even try.

And I've been playing for well over 10 years and you obviously don't understand the NEED for inexperienced players to gear up with what they can get or die incessantly. The lumberjack I refer to holds an axe that's considerably better than the one the troll holds. One that's normally a lot less trouble to get, one that's a lot closer to noob starting points and doesn't require an excursion to Seantryn but with the same effect as a sword found there... a sword noobs won't know about anyway.

And if you don't think a player needs damroll at lvl 7 then you obviously have no clue what it's like to solo as a noob who's trying to quickly kill pve mobs that give decent xp before they get a dwarf boot in the face too many times. If what you suggest were true then I'd see everyone pre-lvl 20 running around in academy gear and that's FAR from the facts. Better gear = faster killing = faster levelling = better survival.

As for the necro, I didn't tell the entire story. I got stupid and had to log out. I had 3 pieces of gear from Udgaard guards that for whatever reason was limited and vanished. Along with the overpopulation of necros I didn't feel like going dumpster diving again for the scraps high levels leave behind.

In my my opinion, gear should be level based. Period. One of the premises of CF is that each new character you create should have no knowledge of anyone or anything in the game. The problem is, once you learn where good gear is often left lying on the ground, you simply can't forget it. I know this because I've done it myself in the past. I've spent hours running around pre lvl 15 gathering decent gear and then hunt down and slaughter any noob in my pvp range who's in crap gear. Many of you have become desensitized by high level damage messages. At high levels, you can probably survive an **OBLITERATE**. A noob who gets MANGLE'd is dead. That gives a HUGE advantage to players who aren't noobs. HUGE. Level based gear would at least give noobs a fighting chance in pvp. The way this game is now, you have the medieval equivalent of unskilled peasants running around in full plate.

And if you think anything I say is BS, here's a challenge for you. Roll up a gnome thief. Solo your way to lvl 30 with ONLY gear YOU PERSONALLY get from mobs YOU KILL then tell me how long it takes and how many times you got your ass kicked. Why solo? Because one of the FIRST things noobs learn in this game is to trust only themselves. I cannot count the number of times I was invited to join someone for a group and got my ass handed to me in a hat the moment I got there.

No, I don't AIM to be anything other than adequate. I don't expect to be some PVP god who never dies. But I don't expect to be a punching bag who exists only to massage egos with an easy kill.

but you are a punching bag exactly because you ignore words of reason and decide not to analyze your behavior as source of the problem.

1. You did not study FAQs - check.
2. You did ignore the statement about not studying FAQs - check.
3. YOu will not study FAQs from here on and will continue doing stupid things that get you killed - check.

Therefore you will not progress and will stay a punching bag. Good luck getting your damroll on level 7 by killing Tarus and thinking "it's a good gear".

Nobody enjoys it, and we all have less time nowadays that we don't want to spend grinding back that exp loss. I wouldnt delete to a lowbie mob death, but I agree it isnt fun. AND WHO ADDED KICK AND BASH AND ####E TO LOWBIE GEAR MOBS?! Thats a fun killer too.

nt

Bingo. You guessed correctly.

CF is not an easy game to learn. Figuring out where gear is, where preps are... hell, just learning the noob areas has taken me years and I still don't know them. Take that challenge, toss in a race/class combo that costs extra xp to level, add in one death and you just turned a noob into an ego massaging for someone who does know where gear is.

CF claims to be an RP mud. So much so that it's a requirement to write a description. And, if you want the cool titles and edges, a role. I dunno about anyone else, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna invest gobs of time into creating a backstory and a face for a character just to watch them get perpetually slaughtered in pvp because I took on a mob bigger than my gear and then I have to try to face down someone 4 levels above me who's geared like a hero.

I have deleted at least a hundred characters, yes at LEAST a hundred, just because of this. Am I stupid for thinking CF is a game I'd enjoy? Probably. Am I a masochist for constantly deleting and never making it past lvl 35? Probably. Can I get into RP'ing a character who's thousands of XP behind the curve and I know is gonna get pummeled by every rager or imperial? No. Delete... delete.

I have tried creating intricate roles and getting into the character before dying. I've been given bonus xp from imms for some of those roles. Does that stop me from deleting? No. I'd rather delete than suffer the utter embarrassment... again... of being everyone's favorite punching bag and having my aldervari gear sacced before I can get back to my corpse because hours before I died trying to get charred bracers.

And you hit on another one that I'll touch on. Mobs who kick the utter #### (maul or worse) out of noobs is exactly why I will not play a Gnome or Svirf any more.

They have hide and detects. Plus great defenses and huge toolbox. I would be greatly surprised if it is hard for you to hero that. I can probably do it in about 30 hours and that would include practicing and cabal induct if I get lucky with seeing a leader. I usually slow down and actively try to avoid leveling for a while at different milestones and still gain eventually without trying on incidentals. For bonus exp and help go goodie. 1-15sh academy quest gear and flame blade. Keep weight under half max always. Then upgrade to Bramblefield stuff to 25sh. Then get goblin general gear from emerald. That stuff gets you to hero. If you are missing a piece just ask ic. Honestly smth with two dam is good enough. Be scribe and nobody bothers you to raid and hunt. Hide from danger and just run if attacked. Make sure to keep return and teleport potions in inventory. Just flee and quaff if attacked by anyone.

Some other ideas: healer, transmuter, utility and/or defense shapeshifter.

All get detect invis, word of recall and identify. None are especially gear dependent. Transmuter gets duo for stealth.

>Some other ideas: healer, transmuter, utility and/or defense
>shapeshifter.
>
>All get detect invis, word of recall and identify. None are
>especially gear dependent. Transmuter gets duo for stealth.

Been there, done that.

The one character I did get into the 30's was a Gnome Transmuter and I had a lot of fun being a support class and I wasn't bad at it. The buttons, aliases and triggers I created to be extremely efficient are still on my client. I chose the Gnome because I was very obviously neutral and only had to really avoid ragers.

The problem arose when those I went out grouping with either deleted or didn't log on. Ever tried to go out solo pveing a Gnome Transmuter? The words brutal don't even begin to describe it. Let's be honest, a transmuter is NOT a solo pve class, at least not to the levels I got to. The other options were to squat in the guildhall either begging for a group and take my chances they actually want to group with me, waiting for someone who asks me to group and take my chances they actually want to group with me, or praying my 'friends' logged in. I got tired of spending hours sitting around twiddling my thumbs with no one wanting or needing my class.

As for shifter, that's one class I have never tried. I've looked it over and decided it's something I probably wouldn't enjoy. I'd likely get the worst forms and end up deleting anway.

>The problem arose when those I went out grouping with either
>deleted or didn't log on. Ever tried to go out solo pveing a
>Gnome Transmuter?

I'll grant you gnome transmuter isn't great for solo ranking. There will always be times when nobody is around to rank with you, and not every class has the tools to rank efficiently by itself.

Generally speaking, the more attractive a given class to groups the worse it is when there is no group to be had. So you can either be attractive to ranking groups with the understanding you may have to find other things to do when there is no group available, or you can play something that can rank solo with the understanding that when groups are available they may prefer someone else over you.

As a transmuter, for instance, if there are no groups to be had you could duo and explore some "safe" areas you're not familiar with. Or gather gold. Or do some quests that don't involve killing tough mobs. Or spend some time in your deity's shrine if you have one. Or try to get an interview with a member of a cabal you're trying to join. Or go somewhere out of the way and try to spam up word of recall and/or teleport. Or hang out in the Inn and chat with folks. Or offer your services to some hero who wants haste-on-a-stick and is willing to pay for it with gear/gold. Are there characters just below your grouping range? Even if you're not getting xp for it, maybe you can assist them so that they rank extra-quick and level up high enough to group with you? If you do all of that and, after half an hour, still can't find a group and don't have anything else to do, just log off and play a different character.

Ranger is another possibility. Decent at solo ranking, still useful to groups. Trick will be that you need to keep detect invis up. Once you hit a certain level there's a certain magic item you can use that makes it considerably less onerous.

Paladin is another possibility.

It seems like you have an issue (getting owned at low levels) and have been presented with a ton of different potential solutions, all of which you have dismissed for various reasons. :P

Everyone wants people to stick around but c'mon man if you don't want to be a punching bag you have to take some of the initiative too! Or just be a punching bag and roll with it - I totally disagree with what you said regarding people not respecting awful PKers, seems like tons of Heralds and Fortress characters who are objectively terrible at PK end up living long, well respected lives, getting leader, progressing through religions, doing tons of area explore stuff, and all in all making a lasting impact on the game.

>It seems like you have an issue (getting owned at low levels)
>and have been presented with a ton of different potential
>solutions, all of which you have dismissed for various
>reasons. :P
>
>Everyone wants people to stick around but c'mon man if you
>don't want to be a punching bag you have to take some of the
>initiative too! Or just be a punching bag and roll with it - I
>totally disagree with what you said regarding people not
>respecting awful PKers, seems like tons of Heralds and
>Fortress characters who are objectively terrible at PK end up
>living long, well respected lives, getting leader, progressing
>through religions, doing tons of area explore stuff, and all
>in all making a lasting impact on the game.

My goal was answered with the first reply: a solution to one of the many reasons people delete, me in particular. Pre level 30 I see the xp loss to a pve death as the final straw. The con loss, I can accept. I can replace that with a train if I die 3 times. The gear loss if I don't make it back, well I've regeared before, not a huge issue. PK losses, I can live with as painful and embarrassing as they are assuming the pk'er isn't a total ass and sac's my Aldervari gear. For now, I suck at pk and know this.

The XP loss, for whatever reason, I look at that negative xp and say 'nope, screw it.' Part of that reverts back to the old way xp seriously affected PK range. I got in the habit then of seeing that as a huge deficit that made me an even bigger PK target and even now, I can't see it any differently. And I know that xp still has an effect on PK range. Last nite a character 1 lvl above me was not in PK range because they played a race that has a + to xp.

And I'm still working on the assumption that even now, the more xp deficit you accumulate and have to make up, the worse it gets. A pve death is punished by allowing even higher levels to be in your pk range.

At higher levels characters are much more able to deal with differences in pk ranges because they have the HP and the gear to take a few hits. At low levels, especially as a low con race like Dark-Elf, you're whacked dead before you can even type flee;quaff. Making it even harder for low levels to survive a gank because they got their face stomped by Tarus is one aspect of the game I can avoid with a delete/delete.

I guess I don't understand the range thing because I have certainly noticed that someone higher level than me dropped OUT of PK range after I ate a mob death before. Range to me has always seemed to be based purely on a comparison of current XP totals.

So, this has just not been my experience at all, in fact its the opposite: "And I'm still working on the assumption that even now, the more xp deficit you accumulate and have to make up, the worse it gets. A pve death is punished by allowing even higher levels to be in your pk range."

Mob deaths don't just increase your experience TNL. They actually remove from your accrued total experience.

You can test it. Type "group" and you can see your total experience. After a mob death, type it again. That experience will decrease.

In other words, if you compare a character that mob-dies at every single level to one that never mob-dies, they'll have the exact same total experience when they hit lvl 51.

If anything, a mob death will make your PK range friendlier (at least temporarily), because you'll have lower total experience but be the same level, so you'll have more people in range below you and less above you.

>seems like tons of Heralds and
>Fortress characters who are objectively terrible at PK end up
>living long, well respected lives, getting leader, progressing
>through religions, doing tons of area explore stuff, and all
>in all making a lasting impact on the game.

Some examples, excluding current characters:

Celebrimbor, Fortress, Captain, 21-62 with 35 mob deaths
Golron, Fortress, Marshall, 69-133 with 25 mob deaths
Angynn, Fortress, Cardinal, 14-48 with 19 mob deaths
Gulrom, Fortress, Captain, 28-33 with 34 mob deaths
Balgrum, Fortress, Cardinal, 22-47 with 19 mob deaths
Nian, Fortress, Prophet, 19-53 with 20 mob deaths
Mendecirith, Fortress, Cardinal, 21-75 with 46 mob deaths

I'm not saying each of these characters was "objectively terrible" at PK, but they sure lost more than they won.

As an aside, one common way of being "not terrible" at PK is to identify characters that either a. match up extremely poorly vs. whatever you're playing, and/or are b. played by someone at or below your own skill level, and then only fight those characters while avoiding everyone else.

>Some examples, excluding current characters:
>
>Celebrimbor, Fortress, Captain, 21-62 with 35 mob deaths
>Golron, Fortress, Marshall, 69-133 with 25 mob deaths
>Angynn, Fortress, Cardinal, 14-48 with 19 mob deaths
>Gulrom, Fortress, Captain, 28-33 with 34 mob deaths
>Balgrum, Fortress, Cardinal, 22-47 with 19 mob deaths
>Nian, Fortress, Prophet, 19-53 with 20 mob deaths
>Mendecirith, Fortress, Cardinal, 21-75 with 46 mob deaths

Well, if you're trying to convince me that I'm overreacting to mob deaths, I couldn't have come up with better evidence myself. Perhaps I am. It just seems to me that at lower levels that it's more than just a death sentence.

Granted, these were long-lived characters and many of their mob deaths may have come at hero when XP was longer a concern.

I sometimes rage out and delete over mob deaths when I'm low level too, mostly because I like taking a lot of con into hero range. It's annoying to lose a bunch of exp and if I haven't written a role, gathered eq, etc., delete delete is fairly cathartic.

What I'd say is that with lower numbers during off hours, if that's when you have time to play, just do the darn human assassin or some other good race warrior. Gather -AC gear and get your defenses up at level 15 using tricks publicized here and on the other forums, it will allow you to solo tougher mobs with far less down time.

>but I'll be damned
>if I'm gonna invest gobs of time into creating a backstory and
>a face for a character just to watch them get perpetually
>slaughtered in pvp because I took on a mob bigger than my gear
>and then I have to try to face down someone 4 levels above me
>who's geared like a hero.

So you can't RP unless you're a PvP bad ass? Uh, okay. How about a role that doesn't involve you being a certified ass kicker?

>Can I
>get into RP'ing a character who's thousands of XP behind the
>curve and I know is gonna get pummeled by every rager or
>imperial? No. Delete... delete.

I'm finding it really difficult to understand why being in an XP hole makes it hard for you to role-play a character. Like, it doesn't even compute. Why would that matter?

Mob dying when you're near hero costs you 1/3 CON and, say, 45 extra minutes of ranking. Meh. If I've invested time and effort in a character then that's nothing to me. By that I mean stuff like: got into a cabal, spammed up some skills, took the time to write a description and role, maybe made some progress in a religion, and made some IC allies and enemies. And I'm going to throw all that away because of a silly mob death? No way.

>No. I'd rather delete than suffer the utter embarrassment...
>again... of being everyone's favorite punching bag and having
>my aldervari gear sacced before I can get back to my corpse
>because hours before I died trying to get charred bracers.

People sac your Aldevari stuff? That's lame. And, I hope, not the norm when most newbies die.

I find that many players, certainly including myself, go through certain "phases" with respect to PvP. Roughly, they are:

Level 0: You die all the time and aren't even sure why. Your gear is always sub-standard because you don't know where to get anything. You're frequently "lost" after teleporting. You can't afford to keep return/teleport potions on hand, or detect invis. When in PK you often panic and spam commands.

Level 1: You know where some gear is and you know most "common" areas. You know how to earn gold quickly enough to keep returns/teleports on hand. You've learned how to avoid people that are likely to kick your ass, but that is still pretty much everyone. When you do get into a fight, you're pretty good at running/quaffing away and not dying. You still don't initiate fights.

Level 2: You know what most common gear does and where to find it. You know most common areas very well, and a few less common areas. Your understanding of mechanics is better and you're mostly correct in evaluating which match-ups favor you and which don't. You're still wrong sometimes. You've started initiating fights against enemies you perceive yourself to match up well against.

Level 3: You know almost all the gear in the game and all the areas, both common and non. You understand match-ups as well as anyone and have a deep knowledge of how every class's skills work. You're good enough to initiate fights with people you don't match up well against and still win.

I consider myself to be around a "2.5" in the above scale. And that's after playing for 15+ years. A realistic goal is to reach Level One as quickly as possible. The game is considerably less frustrating when you're not a ghost half the time. At that point, if you're interested, you can start trying to actually kill other people.

Deleting the first time you mob-die, especially when that happens prior to level 11, is not conducive to you learning anything and/or improving at the game.

>And you hit on another one that I'll touch on. Mobs who kick
>the utter #### (maul or worse) out of noobs is exactly why I
>will not play a Gnome or Svirf any more.

Honestly, I don't blame you. I won't play gnomes either. Svirfs at least get inherent stone skin.

Solution to mob deaths: don't fight any mob that considers at "few lucky blows" or higher. If you stick to "perfect match" and below, it's almost always possible to flee without dying, even if you can't kill the mob in a single pass.

Two things:

1. I'm not going to waste my time or energy getting into RP'ing a character when they're just gonna die repeatedly. I've tried. I've even been empowered on a few occasions. But, a character dying in this or any other pvp game, people equate to a failure. Whether that failure is in not understanding game mechanics or player stupidity, it's still a failure. While most people can tolerate a few failures as a learning experience, they do not play games to repeatedly fail. Enough failures and you simply throw your hands up in disgust. By deleting, I'm reading the tea leaves and avoiding getting to the point of disgust.

2. On your scale I'd consider myself around 1.5.

As for your solution: Don't get me wrong, I don't expect a 'con' to tell me if I'm going to win with absolute certainty, but if you stick to perfect matches you'll get mindlessly bored. When you're looking at 5k to level and you're getting 20xp from a kill it'll take forever. While you may have the patience for that, most people want some challenge. It's the same reason people jump out of perfectly good airplanes.

>1. I'm not going to waste my time or energy getting into
>RP'ing a character when they're just gonna die repeatedly.

Then, as much as it pains me to do so, I humbly suggest CF is not the game for you. Everybody dies repeatedly when they're starting out. Hell, there are current cabal leaders who die repeatedly. Somehow they still manage to have fun.

>While most people can tolerate a few failures as a learning
>experience, they do not play games to repeatedly fail. Enough
>failures and you simply throw your hands up in disgust. By
>deleting, I'm reading the tea leaves and avoiding getting to
>the point of disgust.

Avoiding getting to the point of disgust, in this case, would be ceasing to play CF. What you've done is create a scenario where you repeatedly get to the point of disgust but aren't able to learn how to keep it from happening.

>When you're looking at 5k to level and you're getting
>20xp from a kill it'll take forever.

Usually. But, to be fair, much depends on how taxing each kill is. Sometimes 20xp per kill can be efficient ranking if the mobs die in 2 rounds, they're plentiful, and you never have to rest and/or let the area repop. Especially if there are other positive aspects to the area, such as "nobody is going to look for me here" or "I will almost always see someone coming if they try to attack me here".

>While you may have the
>patience for that, most people want some challenge. It's the
>same reason people jump out of perfectly good airplanes.

Well, again, if you can't be happy avoiding tough mobs and you can't be happy if you fight tough mobs and occasionally die, then there seems to be no possible way for you to be happy.

You don't speak for me.