This is why people complain about the staff and leave the game. It's ridiculous that this happened, that of all the things you could be doing this is what you're doing, and, of course, what you said is wrong. For the masses:

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 3 AM sa I'm level one. What the heck?
You say 'I'm level one. What the heck?'

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 3 AM
An Immortal says 'Any description needs to be in complete sentences.'

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 3 AM sa and?
You say 'and?'

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 4 AM
An Immortal says 'Yours is not.'

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 4 AM sa Of course it is.
You say 'Of course it is.'

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 5 AM sa Also not finished.
You say 'Also not finished.'

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 5 AM
An Immortal says 'I'd rather catch someone before they're finished than to let them continue to put something in incorrectly.'

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 6 AM
An Immortal says 'And no, your description is not in complete sentences.'

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 6 AM sa There's nothing wrong with this description, unfinished as it is. I say that because it's precisely the same style as more than a dozen previous characters
You say 'There's nothing wrong with this description, unfinished as it is. I say that because it's precisely the same style as more than a dozen previous characters'

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 7 AM sa which on four occasions, were given imm xp for them
You say 'which on four occasions, were given imm xp for them'

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 7 AM

Autosaving.

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 8 AM
An Immortal says 'Just because you may or may not have had an incorrect description with past characters, doesn't mean that I will let it fly with this character.'

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 8 AM sa except it's perfectly valid, it's what someone sees.
You say 'except it's perfectly valid, it's what someone sees.'

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 8 AM sa which is what previous imms have not just said ok, but given xp for
You say 'which is what previous imms have not just said ok, but given xp for'

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 8 AM l self
Blackness come to life. Black hair. Black skin. Black eyes. Almost
as though light cannot find this woman. And woman it clearly is, once
you attune yourself to seeing the blackness come to life. The ebony
hair is long enough to dip below the shoulders. Pin straight. Shimmering.
Manvin, a female dark-elf, is in perfect health.

Manvin is using:
<worn on finger> entwined rings of amethyst and citrine
<worn on finger> entwined rings of amethyst and citrine
<worn around neck> a thick strip of red leather
<worn around neck> a fine leather cloak
<worn on body> a fine leather vest
<worn on head> a decorated headband
<worn on face> a gaudy tribal mask
<worn on legs> a pair of fine leather leggings
<worn on feet> a pair of fine leather boots
<worn on hands> a pair of fine leather gloves
<worn on arms> a pair of fine leather sleeves
<worn about body> a skin from the snow leopard
<worn about waist> a fine leather belt
<worn around wrist> a thick strip of red leather
<worn around wrist> a thick strip of red leather
<mainhand wielded> (Glowing) an expertly balanced practice dagger
<held in hand> an academy seal

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 9 AM
An Immortal says 'I'll not be arguing with you.'

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 9 AM sa No, you wont
You say 'No, you wont'

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 9 AM delete
You must be in a safe room to delete.

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 9 AM sa This is why people leave the game.
You say 'This is why people leave the game.'

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 9 AM sa go ahead and delete me
You say 'go ahead and delete me '

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 9 AM sa thanks
You say 'thanks'

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 9 AM
An Immortal frowns.

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 9 AM
An Immortal says 'You are free to drop link from here, if that is what you wish to do.'

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 815tnl (78.55%)> civilized 10 AM

Go read help description and help description extra. You will find nothing at all that says descriptions must be in complete sentences. Instead, what you'll see is that it says the description should be what someone sees when they look at you, which is exactly what this description was doing.

Goodbye.

You have roughly three sentences of material there, and use nine periods. Stylistically it could be much worse, but I think it comes down to a matter of content. There's not much of it. I don't think it's a big deal to continue with the style, but it seems like you are using that style so you can get away with a really short desc. Honestly it really wouldn't have hurt to make it longer. Some give and take goes a long way in forging a relationship. Maybe you make it longer and include a couple more descriptors, maybe they relax on trying to influence the style. Either way this is a fairly petty reason to flame out and quit, considering it took ten times more effort to write this post than it would have taken to write two more sentences of content for your description.

I agree about give and take. There is definitely a lack of that there. I think the imm ####ed up (other guy too, but I hold the actor to a higher standard since they are the one imposing upon the other's time), but maybe it wouldn't have gone there if the dude were a little less flippant right off the bat.

But to that point I'd say: maybe don't desc-room people who are level 1, not if it's clear they really tried, since you don't even need a desc until 11. I'd just start by sending a tell, or waiting, if it were me.

Though definitely desc-room people who are obviously trying to skirt the rules regardless.

...is praying that the level 12 guy that is about to kill you needs help with his description as you run away writhing.

And casting a magic.

Also getting out of death traps early on.

To add another data point, my problem with the description isn't the literary style, but the fact that it's too short and doesn't provide enough detail. I probably wouldn't have forced him to change the style, but would have asked for it to be made about twice as long and describe some other aspects of the character's appearance.

But it's kind of cool anyway. I like the idea, the execution is pretty bad. Almost has the same effect though? Which is that, if I bothered to read it, it would make me feel more immersed in the game, not less. It's not like "x takes his #### out and smacks you" as a desc.

It may seem extreme for you to say it makes you not want to play but I actually agree, we're adults here, time is valuable and who wants to waste it on stupid crap like this? The imm should find something useful to do instead of acting like a text-based mall cop.

edit: I mean that it's bad mechanically in ways I don't care to detail. It's not the style choice of blunt deliveries. Functionally it's still a better desc than the majority, since it actually does something, and cookie-cutters really don't.

you calling a dolt?

I guess I’ll say a few things about this, more than is justified, but I think it’s important to at least give some feedback when someone is upset.

To start, I think this is a rather silly thing to delete over, much less “goodbye” the MUD. I understand you’re frustrated, but there is a far cry between injustice and asking you to clean up your description.

Since that’s the main topic though, let’s talk descriptions and my experiences with them. First thing to understand: there are different immortals with different opinions and different levels of writing skill. As an example, I tend to be the type of person who will, at minimum, send someone a tell letting them know “Hey, there is a typo in your description *here*”.

But let’s move on to the more substantive aspect of it. Descriptions can be pulled aside to be edited for any number of reasons. I’ve done it when someone’s entire description was actions, other times when the spelling mistakes were so rampant that I viewed it as an interruption to immersion, some times when the description made absolutely no sense, and even when the language barrier was so high that I offered to help someone make it a bit more fluent as not to make them stand out in a negative way.

You’ll notice that the closest a lot of that fits under is in the ‘help description extra’ file #2, “Proper capitalization, grammar, and spelling will make your description easier to read, and more professional in appearance. Take a few extra moments to proofread yours.”

Not everyone proof-reads theirs, and not everyone has the same taste. I have no doubt that some of the people I pull aside for description issues are rolling their eyes at me like “Dude, don’t you have something better to do?”, but that’s not the point. The issue is that the description can, with relatively minimal effort, be fixed up at no penalty with the player tossed back into the game.

In your situation here, your description was definitely pushing the boundaries of what a proper description is. I fully understand artistic liberty, but not everyone agrees where that line is drawn. Here, you have an immortal asking you NOT to eliminate the description, but to change the presentation of the information itself. IE: From “Black hair. Black skin. Black eyes.” to something like “The matching pitch black pigment of her hair, skin, and eyes make ”. Notice, that doesn’t ruin your description, it doesn’t eliminate what you’re saying, it just asks you to change how you’re saying it to match up with something closer to the norm.

If I were you, in this case, I might have done something like: “I like the literary approach of blunt, short sentences. Is it okay if I only lengthen it a little bit to keep that feeling present?”.

All that just to say that I hope you can take a step back, sigh at this, and realize that there are always going to be times (and in my experience, these are minimal/exceptions) where your artistic liberty clashes with the staff’s idea of how things should be. Rather than let it break your spirit, just fiddle with it and come back again strong. Just to provide a little bit of relatability, everyone on staff has dealt with the same/similar stuff in the process of writing an area, so we very much know your pain.

Still, unhappy or not, thanks for your feedback.

I’d write up something for Manvin’s funeral, but I think black-funeral-garb plus black hair, eyes, and skin is just going to look absolutely ridiculous.

-Ish

>Not everyone proof-reads theirs, and not everyone has the same
>taste. I have no doubt that some of the people I pull aside
>for description issues are rolling their eyes at me like
>“Dude, don’t you have something better to do?”, but
>that’s not the point. The issue is that the description can,
>with relatively minimal effort, be fixed up at no penalty
>with the player tossed back into the game.

Why isn't that the point? New content feels like it is coming in at an all time low*, but we're pulling people aside for description still? Why are Imms devoting time to description policing, and catching "cheaters" instead of putting new stuff into the game? Is CF finished? Is it no longer a living world, but rather a static one?

The player's reaction is silly, but honestly this description is better than 99% of the ones I write, and I only get pulled in when I don't bother by level 14 or so... Is there really nothing better for Imms to do?

By the way, the penalty is being forced to do work you didn't want to do in order to continue playing the game.


*I don't feel like trying to justify it with data, especially since I don't have access to say, # of lines of commits, assuming area files are also committed.

I think this is inaccurate. Someone can correct me, but we've had a pretty steady introduction of areas since the creation of an area is the requirement of applying to the immortal staff.

Your argument about descs is empty though. Having standards isn't bad. This argument is similarly used during traffic ticket stops: "Don't you have murderers to stop?". The problem is that it can escalate infinitely, "Don't you have a world to save?". Just because there are ALSO more important things doesn't mean that we should, or do, slack on even the minor requirements of Carrion Fields.

So if you're asking me to cut out my minor RP interactions, events, role rating, description fix-ups, etc. and only focus on area creation, I'm very happy to refuse. My goal is to try and contribute on all fronts - not just one determined (subjectively) to be "the most important".

Thus, again, the "don't you have something better to do" argument is empty. We do quite a lot, and we're always trying to do a bit more.

I'll agree with you on the penalty, eating your time is a penalty. In my mind it's minor enough to not be a game-changer. I'm okay with descriptions having standards. Is this description one of the ones that needed to be fixed? Maybe, it was definitely along the more creative line, but that's up to the reader. Is fixing it a huge punishment? I don't think so. Is having standards for descriptions that would require someone to fix theirs up good? I think so.

Re *: I can't say total line addition or anything like that. All I can say, from the hands on process of working on areas, is that a lot goes into it and we've seen some good additions recently, with some more coming along the way! In fact, I've seen a recent increase in foot traffic to some of these since people are only now figuring out what all is available in them.

Thanks for the feedback, but I definitely disagree with the general position of your post in regards to tailoring our efforts exclusively to "important" things.

-Ish

Two cents.

For one I would totally appreciate if an Imm said, 'Hey, you have a typo in your description 'here.' I also agree that it matters. Standards are a good thing. If you want to be on a mud where descriptions are written like this, with typos etc. go for it. (Yes they inevitably will creep into everything to one extent or another.) But, standards are a good thing.

If you're going to do something you should strive to do it well. Hence why I personally, would appreciate the heads up. I hate randomly noticing I screwed up my description and will take time to fix it if I notice something like that. I also 'used' to use the typo command, but have since been led to believe it's no longer referenced or addressed. (I could be wrong.)

But really, this isn't about a clash of literary styles this (like most things text) is a byproduct of personal perspective and the vagaries of perception. Joe-schmo lowbie is transferred to create a description. Joe throws something out there, and to the observer, who brought Joe here to craft an identity for his character it likely comes off less as a stylistic choice than a 'lazy blah screw you! look words. okay can I go now?'

Like most things, it's less what you say than how you say it. In this case, because you're a player on a free game, with a level 1 character, just starting out, it's really incumbent on you to show a little deference and respect. Or don't and blow up and delete. But this is not a reflection on the game, this is a reflection on the player in question.

But that's just my perspective.

If you are asking for an opinion ...

- Your description is terrible
- Your log is incomplete so the point you are trying to make is pointless

And tho I have already used far to many words:

"There's nothing wrong with this description, unfinished as it is. I say
that because it's precisely the same style as more than a dozen previous
characters"

Your description should be your own work unique to this character.
Reusing previous descriptions, even if your own, is against the rules.
Descriptions found to be the same (or obviously similar) to previous
characters' descriptions will not be tolerated.

Pretty emotional on the mortal side.
Pretty incompetent on the immortal side.

NT

Nice one. I'm speechless.

$10 says this thread gets deleted.

But, this is a rule:

If a staff member makes a decision regarding rules or gameplay (in person or otherwise), you are expected to comply with it.

For both of you. For shame. The only two people who would ever read that description had a stylistic disagreement and then chose to pick a fight about it. Their has to be better things out they're to pick meaningless fights about; seriously.