Idea: Sheath
This idea is to add roleplay and more realism, though not complete realism.


When a sword is not wielded it can be sheathed - 'SHEATH SWORD'.
When the character is looked at, it can be seen under the belt slot as <sheathed> sword, or <fastened> axe.
No more than two weapons may be 'sheathed' at one time.
A sheathed sword can not be stolen but to use it, one must 'UNSHEATH SWORD' whilst the character can seen. The pro and the con, one could say. This gives a character the ability to favor two unused weapons, giving them security from thieves. This also adds roleplay to CF, a knight not need wield a sword on certain occasions, he can sheath them within cities, for instance.

<sheathed> dagger
<fastened> axe

A group of three are ranking in the forest of nowhere. When they leave the forest to rest, they sheath their weapons - the fighting is done for now. They rest for a minute or two, group tells, looking at each other, etc. When they are ready to reenter the FON, the leader unsheathes his longsword and says, 'Get yourselves ready.'

Eight people are in a cabal, relatively safe, roleplaying for an hour rl time. Suddenly the outer guardian is attacked, and all eight unsheath their blades at once, wary and ready now.

Six cabal mates of Empire and arguing, finally, a Blade has had enough and unfastens his warhammer ...

Or three bloadoaths go to speak with the Emperor ... weapons drawn? No no no, they had better have their weapons sheathed.

I think the sheath command would work itself into the game perfectly.

You kidding me? Not having weapons wielded while anywhere near FoN is a deathwish.

..But that aside, yes it works as in an RP sense, but its really useless coding for little use. How often is anyone really going to use this? I know I'm going to keep my weapons out at all time, you never know when that ranger or assassin is sneaking up on you.
I suppose the argument is when you're inside a cabal or somesuch, but other than that? ..Eh..?
As I said, useless coding for little use.

Those are all good examples, but presently they can be handled by the emote command and object socials. (We can add a 'sheath' and the like as needed.)

The more fundamental discussion is 'What do the commands do?', because you'd need to establish:

1) What is the incentive to sheath weapons? If it makes you less prepared and otherwise has no effect, people won't use it.
2) What is the incentive to keep a sheath empty? If there isn't one, people will just use this as a means of keeping extra weapons thief-resistant.
3) If you create a situation where people commonly go around bare-handed (i.e. 'No unsheathed weapons in town.'), handspecs and invokers will have a field day with that. It's a thorny game balance issue. Can you address these in a way that makes the whole project worth it?
4) Does all of the above get us something fun? Or just a lot of command shuffling, and we should leave this in the domain of 'emote' and related commands?

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Incentive to sheath: You rest and sleep better with sheathed weapons (it takes energy to hold a sword at the ready)and travel easier (more efficient running without those swords in your hand) Difference by weapon (i.e. swords, daggers, axes, maces sheathing affected; staff, spear and polearm are not (as easy to run with it in one hand as carried in inventory). Perhaps also quicker wielding from sheath (and delay from inventory).

Incentive to keep empty when fighting: risk of fumbling or tripping yourself from the weapons flailing around instead of secure in your inventory (it's difficult to imagine, but you get the idea). Exceptions perhaps for hand-to-hand specialists because their hands would be empty.

have it so the withdrawal of weapons from sheath can occur even when blind (you can grab that sword on your waist even if you can't see it)

Basically create situtation where Tribunal has to spend more time enforcing this law but perhaps with different penalties (i.e. fine, confiscation of weapon, etc...but not death). Could have gate guards warn folks coming in and maybe even fight if pc refuses to yield. Could even add fun stuff for daggers to be sheathed hidden for assassin attacks in town (or something similar)

Just a little brainstorming, I'd been thinking of this for a while as well.

Peace,
Doc

I especially like the part about being able to access a sheathed weapon while blind, like a potion. I think people would still wield weapons all the time and keep something sheathed, but it's a nice piece of the incentive puzzle.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Reduce movement costs by people not holding weapons by 25%. Ok, this gives a boost to hand specs that I already consider too strong, but who cares. I can see it being easier to move through uneven terrain, crowds etc if weapons are sheathed.

Make all combat with sheathed weapons suffer an offensive penalty, so that you can't hit as much. However, allow access whilst blind, so that if you are blinded and weakened beyond carrying that polearm, you can draw your sheathed dagger. Make a 20% chance to fumble the dagger or other light weapon and drop it on the ground though, as otherwise it is a bit strong despite the drawbacks.

Put 1 round lag (per item) on getting stuff out of or into a container unless your hands are free, so if you want to id a pile of stuff or full loot and stuff into bag before looting some more, you need to sheath your weapons.

Make crawl automatically sheath weapons that aren't daggers, but send an echo to remind someone that they haven't rewielded it when they arrive in the next room.

Put 1 round lag (per item) on getting stuff out of or into a container unless your hands are free,

This is more or less what we don't want to see- penalizing people for not adding yet another command into their common interface. Some of the other stuff is borderline useful, but I'm not sure it justifies the effort and complexity of a coded feature vs. something handled with all-purpose RP commands.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

>Put 1 round lag (per item) on getting stuff out of or into
>a container unless your hands are free,
>
>This is more or less what we don't want to see- penalizing
>people for not adding yet another command into their common
>interface. Some of the other stuff is borderline useful, but
>I'm not sure it justifies the effort and complexity of a coded
>feature vs. something handled with all-purpose RP commands.
>
>valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Have it so that you automatically unsheath weapons when you are attacked.

It's nice to sheath weapons so that you can display an aggressive or non-aggressive frame of mind. For example, standing in the inn of eternal star, or other public place like town. I can stand around still safe in the knowledge that if someone plans to attack me, they need to actively "unsheath" their weapons before they can hit me.

(Unsheathed weapons would be a criminal offence?)

This would mean i either stand their while the guy unsheaths his weapons, or i run for the hills. If he attacks me then my weapons are automatically in the wear slot for fighting (you can't initiate a fight with sheathed weapons, h2h specs can't fight with sheathed weapons, they get in the way) Might even encourage a few unblooded face-offs, i don't know.

People who are attacked and run away are obviously not made criminals so a timer is required of some kind.

(Edited having read Nepenthes note: "newbie" flag forces newbies to be unable to unsheath weapons within Towns "It's illegal you know". Also, by illegal it could be a simple as thing as guards attack you, but you're not flagged. Also you wouldn't be attacked for approaching Outside the East Gate with weapons drawn, you'd be warned first.)
(Have to kill the mob to get past him with a weapon drawn?)

Cursed weapons would then present a nice exciting issue for the owner.
No sheathing.

I really wouldn't want people to be any worse off because of
the introduction of this type of command if they didn't want
to use it. Introducing a needless complication of this level
reeks of un-fun. If it's a sucky command people can use mostly
for RP, then that's fine.

>Basically create situtation where Tribunal has to spend more
>time enforcing this law but perhaps with different penalties
>(i.e. fine, confiscation of weapon, etc...but not death).
>Could have gate guards warn folks coming in and maybe even
>fight if pc refuses to yield.

That sounds like an incredibly obnoxious environment to be in,
from both sides. I'd hate for people to have to spend large
amounts of time arguing over weapons being unsheathed in the
protected cities.

( I'm no Outlander, but if Magistrates start telling thieves
what they can and cannot have in their hands, I will make Astein
look like a Care Bear. )

There's good in the idea, but also some concern. Just saying.

Qaledus

This is admittedly a better proposal, but here's still the concerns I'd have that would need to be addressed to convince me.

I'm afraid that this empowers stealth characters to a frightening degree. If you're most characters not wielding weapons and my assassin or ranger (as terrain appropriate) pounces on you, you're not going to make it. To a lesser degree, it empowers aggressive players and ganging -- if my groupmate summons you and I bash you while you're not wielding weapons, you're not going to make it.

I'm afraid that tying this to law enforcement in any way complicates the jobs of Tribunal in a way that makes that cabal less fun to play with little real benefit.

I'm afraid that this complicates the game for newbies in a way that doesn't add very much strategically. I fear newbies getting flagged for wielding in town and quitting the game, or getting mauled while not wielding and quitting the game. Note, I don't have a problem with making things harder for newbies in some ways if I think it adds something significant to the game. I'm just not sure any possible wielding implementation is better than just doing it via emotes and object socials.

I've learned never to underestimate the ingenuity of our players in some things, though. Surprise me.

>I'm afraid that this empowers stealth characters to a frightening >degree. If you're most characters not wielding weapons and my assassin >or ranger (as terrain appropriate) pounces on you, you're not going to >make it. To a lesser degree, it empowers aggressive players and ganging >-- if my groupmate summons you and I bash you while you're not wielding
>weapons, you're not going to make it.

I guess I'd see it as working on trade-offs: if I was someplace I felt relatively safe (i.e. in town with Tribunals present) I would rest easier with weapons shielded whereas if I were someplace I didn't feel safe (like a non-ranger in the woods) I would have that sharp thing in my hand. Perhaps the sheathing could have some affect on morale...confident folks don't need to have something deadly in their hand... As for summoning into a bash...well, for you could make wielding from a sheath unlaggable but in all honestly, summoning into a group that bashes is pretty much a death knell for anyone who wasn't already prepped for bashing (reducing/shielding, etc..)

>I'm afraid that tying this to law enforcement in any way complicates >the jobs of Tribunal in a way that makes that cabal less fun to play >with little real benefit.

Actually, I was thinking it would make Tribunal a little more fun; something to do other than sit around and wait for someone to yell. A very long time ago I talked Bladerunner into making carrying a weapon in town illegal and we had a blast with it for a short while. You could think of it like enforcing the seatbelt law; it's always illegal but it is selectively enforced.

>I fear newbies getting flagged for wielding in town and quitting the game,

You could set this up with different warnings/confiscations of younger players and no doubt it would create some opportunities for stealth pc's but maybe the benefits for resting and travelling would make it worth the risk. For instance, if you knew someone was chasing you and you only had limited moves, sheath weapon to run faster/farther and outdistance pursuer.

Just some ideas.
Doc

Was just reading a few of these posts and thought I might throw an idea in regards to it in the hat.

What about having people automatically wield a sheathed weapon in combat?

So lets say that WarriorX is running down eastern with his staff sheathed. He fails to see ImperialA and ImperialB (Sorry, imperials were the first to come to mind :P ) and they summon him into a bashing ImperialB. What if, similar to the way thief bindings fall off, WarriorX is able to wield a weapon?

So randomly in the first round, or second round, they fumble for their weapon and manage to tear it away from their sheath and wield it. It could be justified a little more then wielding a weapon in their inventory because it is already so much closer at hand and is more a reaction then an action. If that makes much sense.

What if WarriorX has maybe two swords sheathed instead of one weapon? Maybe have it only wield the one weapon? Perhaps the last weapon sheathed as it would be easier to reach, or have it randomly choose one weapon to wield? Could also be the same for rangers attacking or thieves or whichever surprise attack.

Just thought I would put a thought or two of mine into the hat.

Blobqirt

So, the advantage of sheathing(or not having a weapon wielded, as a weapon in sheath helps nothing) would be slightly more effective resting or sleeping.

As disadvantage I would see the fact that if person is surprised, he'd be fighting barehanded. However, I'd add a quality that he'd automatically unsheath his weapons after first round(or the opponents first attack) and fight with those(a weapon in sheath cannot be stolen, but it will be wielded automatically. Wielding a weapon that is not the weapon in the sheath would put the weapon in sheath to inventory, if the person would be unable to dual wield it with the other weapon). The automatic unsheathing would not lag the player(or perhaps one pulse, nothing signifigant).

Also, it might be worth thinking that a groupmate who autoassists would lose the double round nature of autoassist, should his weapon be sheathed(he would unsheath his weapon to assist, thus losing the other round of hits in the initial autoassist round).

I see no reason why they wouldn't be stealable. I think right now the theory is that your inventory as a whole is stuff strapped to your body. Not like you can conceal the fact that you're carrying a polearm, nor would it be particularly hard to unfasten it though I suppose it'd be more noticable.

Anyway, I like this idea. Every weapon in your inventory should be fastened/sheathed and in addition, these should be stealable. Make it so. :)

99% of people would use this to stop thieves from stealing their best weapons: ie, they would "sheath" two weapons and then wield two weapons as well, not really working that roleplay angle at all. I see no need for this command, simply because there would most likely be some penalty for being attacked while your weapons are sheathed (like forcing you to use h2h, and a slight lag on the 'unsheath' command), and that would encourage the behaviour described above.

Seems like an all too easy preventative measure against thieves stealing your secondary weapons, with a thin coating of roleplay as justification.

Rom.

You would sheath your wielded weapons. Meaning that you're currently wielding something, even though its sheathed. I can see the RP angle, but I can't really see this ever being used, due to the inconvenience of having to unsheath your weapon before initiating combat. Of course, if combat was initiated with you, the unsheathing would be automatic, I hope.

Then there should be no penalty for sleeping disarm at the least.

I have always wanted to see some form of this idea in the game, and I think a few simple balances could be put in to keep it from being abused.


1) First, sheathing should be possible with swords, daggers (sheathed), axes, maces (fastened), flails and whips (also fastened). Exotics are too varied to really make it possible, though I suppose it could be done with things like bows. Staffs, spears and poles...nah. Also, the two-hand rules would apply to this command in much the same way as they do now. Non-giant races can have one two-handed weapon sheathed + one wielded, or two normal-sized weapons wielded. Giant races can have two two-handed weapons sheathed + two two-handed weapons wielded, etc. (Of course, only classes that can dual-wield would be allowed to have two sheathed weapons, period.)

2) Having two sheathed weapons while wielding two more would cause combat penalties due to the cumbersome, bulky weapons dangling from your belt or strapped to your back. Basically you'd get less attacks and defend worse. Also, since you'd have to worry about your sheathed weapon tripping you up or falling out in the heat of combat, you would have to keep a hand free to position it every now and then. So, with that in mind, maybe make it impossible to dual wield if you have two weapons sheathed. I'd say HtH specs could ignore these penalties if they are using their fists with two weapons sheathed - just makes sense to me. Also, daggers should have a lesser impact, or none at all seeing as how they are really too small to get in the way.

3) A new thief skill specifically designed to cut or remove a PC's belt, thus swiping whatever they have sheathed and destroying or stealing the belt in question. Only one thief path would have this, as it would be quite powerful. Also, this would make grease even more nasty, as well as striking the shadows footfall.

4) You might be able to justify having limited items as being impossible to sheath, due to the same coding that makes it impossible to put them in a container. I think that would suck, but hey.


Aside from all those balancing features, I think there could be some nice skills for each type of weapon when it comes to unsheathing. For instance, you could quickly unsheath a sword and go for a strong, unclockable opener move that would have little or no lag associated with it, or you could reach behind your back and whip out the axe fastened there, bringing it down over your head in an equally quick movement. All of these unsheathing moves would give the victim a timer that would make them immune while injured, or for a duration. These skills could vary for each class, reflecting that classes particular combat style.


-Mek

I think 'Sheath' just brings us one step closer to the dreaded 'defecate' command.