Today an IMM said that savage rangers have zero downside when using metal weapons(saying metal weapons are not flagged as "gear") In the help file for savages it states that savages shun the use of metal armor and weapons. Which one is correct? can savages use metal weapons with zero downsides or was the imm incorrect?

An imm was wrong or deliberately deceptive.

Savages have NO downside for ambush onslaught when using a non-metal weapon - which is huge bonus compared to other rangers.
Savage have standard downside for ambush onslaught when using a metal weapon - which is definitely a downside.

>An imm was wrong or deliberately deceptive.
>
>Savages have NO downside for ambush onslaught when using a
>non-metal weapon - which is huge bonus compared to other
>rangers.
>Savage have standard downside for ambush onslaught when using
>a metal weapon - which is definitely a downside.

Uh...I'm not sure if there's a communication issue or what.


Savage ranger w/ non-metal weapon = Uber ambush!
Savage ranger w/ metal weapon = Normal Ambush
Non-savage ranger w/ any weapon = Normal Ambush


What Destuvius and Daevryn are saying is there's no additional penalty to a savage ambushing w/ a metal weapon. They just don't receive the bonus they would from a non-metal weapon. So yes, a savage is *BETTER OFF* using a non-metal weapon, but they're at no penalty compared to a non-savage ranger when using a metal weapon. Similarly,

Ranger in wilderness = Awesome dodge!
Ranger fighting shapeshifter = awesome dodge!
Ranger fighting not shapeshifter in non-wilderness = normal dodge
Thief fighting = normal dodge
Orc fighting = normal dodge
etc

Rangers don't take any *punishment* in dodging outside the wilderness, they're not just enjoying uber-dodge...which yeah, quickly reminds you how much that cloud giant dodge sucks.

"Rangers have no downside" means "hey dude, use metal weapon all you want". You may argue all you want that "it is not downside compared to others", but truth is - savage using metal weapons is handicapped.

I have lost a couple of ultra sexy kills as Gromm (including ambushes on convulsing Provost and Captain) when I was following the "no downside" logic.

So unless you include all that tricky explanation in a newbie channel answer, saying "savage is not handicapped by using metal weapons" is deceptive, which is proven by the fact that this question popped up here and you had to post 10 line explanation of how it is so.

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Newbie friendly answer would've been "Savages lose their ambush onslaught bonus when using metal weapons".

Edit: It is also nice to hear "Rule of thumb - don't use any metal if you're savage", which is fairly often an answer there (and is explicitly stated in helpfile as well).

and I may be completely wrong, but Im almost positive that it worked like this:

Savage gets a bonus to ambush when wielding a non-metal weapon.

Savage gets no bonus for metal weapon, but gets no penalty either (a normal ambush).


Fairly certain that weapons aren't counted in the failure of skills check for metal

Savage = ambush onslaught bonus

Savage + Metal Weapon = Regular Ranger Ambush

Savage + Metal Armor = failed ranger skills (Creep, Camo, Ambush, Etc.)

So Savage with metal weapon is no different from any other ranger (with respect to ambush only)