The aggressive creatures and the beings that assist them in the new Buried Battlefields area are now neutral-aligned instead of good.

Normally this kind of a tweak wouldn't be announced here, but there's been a bit of in-game drama over it. It turned out to be a bit easier than intended for heroes to unintentionally kill a bunch of good NPCs.

Happy hunting!

Disclaimer: I have not been to the area and the just of this post seems like mechanically good mobs were assisting not good agro mobs.

are there not guidelines concerning agro good mobs? For years we had to deal with the mechanical non sense of whitecloaks, and we still have some agro dwarves out there but I am curious if we have codified that mob behavior should mimic major expectations of player behavior?

One step further does it make sense for good guards to just scream and maybe Maldict/manacle/lag goodies instead of attacking them? And maybe dwarf guards with dwarves? Auto manacle and possibly all goodie healers not healing and goody merchants charging 3x normal prices might be plenty of downside possibly also a faire fireside t on good outlanders. It would make goody expectations more harmonious.

The problem here is not that a good mob was aggressive, necessarily. It was that it was too hard for certain characters to avoid accidentally killing the good NPCs without fair warning. I wrote the area so that's on me. Anyway, that's fixed now. The area has its unique challenges and dangers, but this is no longer one of them.

if a goodie mob kills a goodie - set a betrayer flag to them and then switch them to neutral. That would be sweet and fair.

Oh that goodie attacked them on their own? Who cares.

This always happens with area design, good example to look at is Lost Elven Vaults - Originally it was -30 exp for each of those mobs and they were all aggro even to goodies, I like the 'balance' it has now much more.

Shouldn't we use some other solution to make areas specifically tough for goods besides agro goods if that's the goal?

I wonder if scarab ever made that alternate path through hell so goods can do the logical thing and try to destroy evil st the source.

I wonder if scarab ever made that alternate path through hell so goods can do the logical thing and try to destroy evil st the source.

Hahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahh ^^^^ Now that would be the most depressing raid end ever :D

Doesnt matter if it attacks you, you still killed a goodie.

-30 exp is punishment and that is OOC but the guildmaster gives you the OOC and really it's a text based game so consequences aren't IC but only if the IMMs wait 30 minutes and punish. But if they waited an hour and then made it IC it is OOC because of all the goodies in the area itself. You see it is ruins of a Battlefield in the PRESENT but the PRESENT is in a text based mud so it can't be the REAL present so there shouldn't be any consequences. Just to clarify I agree with the consequences but I do not agree with the consequences because of the -30 exp is IC and the timeline of one hour instead of 2 hours just really made me mad so I deleted everything because I can't help out my other perma anymore.

Nt

I dunno man I got kicked out of Fort the other day for two city guards that autoattacked me and died (there was a poacher too, but it was a new area to me and I didnt know :D :D :D ). Seems like the exact same situation.

Small Edit : It wouldnt matter to me, A good guy might be a good guy, but if he tries to kill another good guy, because he is out of his mind, and I kill him, I feel bad he died, but I can justify it that I was defending myself.

Not really. It's more like this. You are a good person, but you had this really evil asshole come and kill your friend right before your eyes. You chase him and he runs past this cop. You either do or don't see the cop, that's not important. What is important is that when you catch up to the guy and try to kill him, this cop sees you.

Now the cop is also a really good guy, but he didn't see the evil asshole kill your friend so he is going to do what any good cop and good person would when they see someone trying to kill another person with no context. Stop them. So he runs at you and when you don't lay down right away he tries to make you go down. So he attacks you and you kill the cop, who was also good. Now, that doesn't mean that you aren't good anymore. But the choice you made was not a goodly choice.

You can justify that you were defending yourself, and it's true that you were, but that doesn't make killing this good guy cop a good route to take if you care about being a good person.

In CF the laws of the Tribunal cities require blood if broken, so the guards aren't going to arrest you they are going to try to exact that price. It's something all goody Tribs try to avoid, but if it comes down to letting you kill someone in the city while they watch or their duty they'll likely engage you. And if you don't run away from them then they will fight you to the death. Now as you that's fine if /you/ stand there and kill them because it would literally be self defense, but if you belong to an organization with principles and guidelines like Fort then you are expected to retreat and do everything you can to avoid shedding that good guy blood. Even if that means you go run yourself on to a big bad mob to lose the flag.

Cityguards aren't out of their minds and just attacking you for the psychotic lulz, as well, so even though those kills are in self defense you shouldn't make it out like they attacked you for no reason. Get the (Criminal) flag and they are all going to attack you, it's not a surprise party.

Edit: It just occurred to me that if you make another character you should roll with an evil. Problem solved, you don't have to adjust your mechanical play to compensate for your roleplay, kill or don't kill whatever you want to. In Fortress, you are expected to divorce yourself from available mechanics in favor of RP driven responses.

Your cityguard stuff is foolish as well, You see Batman he's wanted for punching a bad cop. You go after the criminal thats fine, he gets away, he gets away another 450 times, never harming any guards, for 50 years or so.


One day you see Batman, Superman, Wonderwoman and Cyborg, Looks like they just beat down some evil dudes. Batman seems to be carrying a nuclear weapon of some kind. As Gothams finest you jump onto the hood of the batmobile as it speeds past and are killed instantly. Your partner finds out about this, and decides to track down Batman, he leaves the city, travels through 5 other Jurisdictions, through the mountains, PAST Alfred at the gate, you find Batman in his sleep, try to kill him, but he instinctively reacts, and because you have the hp/constitution of a toddler, you die instantly.

Now that aside, in the original example that I was talking about, if I had known that the fortress rp was going to be so cut and dry empire style, I would have just straight up deleted at 30 hours or what ever when I killed the first goodie mob (by accident).



Edit: It just occurred to me that if you make another character you should roll with an evil. Problem solved, you don't have to adjust your mechanical play to compensate for your roleplay, kill or don't kill whatever you want to. In Fortress, you are expected to divorce yourself from available mechanics in favor of RP driven responses.

^^ I generally play 2-3 evil guys at the same time, its not a matter of rping. There isnt a single mob in the game that I'd be bothered if it was on align or another. Not played for a long time prior to this, I simply didnt know one goodie = boot, and I got sort of lazy near the end of my wanted period (allowed other people to lead party, get led into mob, mob dies before I can even flee), Going AFK in fort while guard tracks you from Galadon, DONT LET THEM IN ALFRED!!! and because generally I had 3-4 hero tribs chasing me when ever I went any where :)

First, Batman would have used Word of Recall to make sure the guard didn't follow him. He might have used the sewer exit under his guildmaster to leave town so he didn't get any more on his tail.

Secondly it's not one and done. Mistakes can be forgiven (the first time especially), multiple infractions indicate a pattern (like with Ghrimmli).

For the record met Ghrimmli and never had an issue with him, he helped me out with every interaction, actually. So I'm not looking to just pile on here, but Fort has high standards, especially for an Iggy follower. Each of those infractions represents a choice and how those choices are dealt with that shows him and the rest of the Cabal who you are. Didn't meet Kaiden, but from what I was told by virtually everyone is that it wasn't a one time thing. I can sympathize with Ghrimmli to an extent, but you have to realize that the kinship thing was an oversight. Yes, you rolled with it as an RP device which is fine, but when it was made apparent that it was a mechanical mistake it's now time to divorce your RP from mechanics again.

First, Batman would have used Word of Recall to make sure the guard didn't follow him. He might have used the sewer exit under his guildmaster to leave town so he didn't get any more on his tail.


^^^ You cant word of recall with nukes

Secondly it's not one and done. Mistakes can be forgiven (the first time especially), multiple infractions indicate a pattern (like with Ghrimmli) - Nah Ghrimmli and Kaiden situations were very different.

I wasnt an Iggy follower, I was just some dude who signed up to kill imperials and tribunals. (Like Kaidens boot totally 100% deserved, but it should have happened at 30 hours, when I personally as a player saw the poacher and assumed he was evil. I did a bit of rp afterwards, wasnt really sure who/what to speak about it, didnt know if number of goodies killed would be absolute), Then Arkham guard attacks maran raiding party, and literally dies in the first round, think I was lagged from annoint or something and not leading, couldnt word because I had the codex, mechanically there was nothing I could do about, we had a big Rp thing about it in the fortress discussing it and stuff. Other guard really was just me afking out of boredom, going to make a cup of tea, coming back to a corpse of a Galadon guard that tracked me. So yeah, it wasnt bad rp, except for the first poacher dude (And on that basis alone I'm fine with a boot, given how easy maranation was compared to before). Actually probably could have abused it as well to further Kaidens goals, but what would be the point? :)

I can sympathize with Ghrimmli to an extent, but you have to realize that the kinship thing was an oversight. Yes, you rolled with it as an RP device which is fine, but when it was made apparent that it was a mechanical mistake it's now time to divorce your RP from mechanics again.

^^^ Cool you have to realise, that the mechanical mistake was only explained to me after spec loss etc.

Not NPC's in the past who are alive.

Your logic on the dwarf-killing you did is kinda hilarious.

Whats also funny is like 6 peoples fixation on the dwarves in the past, and how I justified it IC, whats funny is I killed those dwarfs a hundred hours before the first kinslayer title, and although they contributed to total dwarf killage, they probably didnt even account for half of the dwarves I killed? Kinslayer was totally ok, both times, I killed dwarfs. That wasnt my beef, its how and when it was applied :)

One was one of the galadonian patrolman on Eastern who is a dwarf. Was thirsting once and he was already gushing from some other encounter and I basically two-rounded him.

The other was Nexus dwarf.

He got me at least 3 times. I think I got him solo once in a defense and that's it (though he died once seconds after killing me during a raid on Nexus...).

I tried like hell to never fight him, but then after a fight between the two of us we were ARRRRRRRRPEEEEEING and he told me he didn't care about the dwarves and was an exile. So then I felt less bad trying to brutally murder him.

Brondalorm never killed another dwarf, NPC or PC.

As the IMMs have said, the dwarf race is the only race that has a section of the helpfile for said race talking how dwarves value other dwarves above all else.

Now, granted, I agree, it ####ing sucks to get hit with nerfs without warning (though it seems like from what a few IMMs have posted that during you ranking on mobs you got IMMteraction you chose to ignore in lieu of quick EXP gain...which is more than I ever got before I got nerfed...but I digress), but that's not the issue. The issue is you actually probably got WAAAAAY too much leeway. Does it suck that a dwarf who kills other dwarves will lose his specs? Yep. But that's the breaks playing a dwarf.

Who are still woefully underpowered as warriors btw. Woefully.

Yeah I've played plenty of dwarves who never killed a dwarf before. For Ghrimmli it was just business, meh, the character was for messing around on but still the way the actual negative aspects of the character came down were poorly rped from Ghrimmlis perspective, and rather than stand by their 'mistake' which offered a different angle of dwarven rp, they changed it to how they thought it should be, which is fine.

If they attacked you for no reason, are they really 'good'? Does it really make it better if their alignment is coded as 'neutral'?

Aren't these now just the same mobs with a different flag?

Gr

Nt

I basically got told it was a bugged area :(