Now that we're a good ways into the empowerment change I'm curious what the players/staff opinion is on the system?

Personally I like the empowerment being optional approach. But I fear that the changes to wrath and transmute metal to wood hurt the Paladin and Druid classes. My thoughts:

Paladins: The class enjoyed some diversity after the addition of monks and champions but with wrath becoming a two round supp all we're really seeing (with any real success) is bat spamming champions and monks built entirely around intensify. I understand wrath was pretty OP in the middle ranges and giving it in it's old state to unempowered Paladins may have been too much. Perhaps a happy medium would be shortening the lag on wrath to one round at level 51? As it stands right now I'd never play another shield pally.

Druids: The transmute change hurt Savages/Outlanders significantly. The lack of front-claw extensions just kills my desire for a felar outtie. Giant cloud/mountaineer used to be a fearsome build but given the lack of options in gear it's not something I'd want to play again either.

Which is nothing compared to what this change did to druids themselves. Even the best druid player in the game struggled to meet their former standard of glory with these changes. The gear pool is much smaller and because of that druids seem less and less common. Maybe return the power but make it empowerment only? Or change it so that transmuted armor/weapons become druid_only?

Just my two cents. These were two of my favorite classes before the changes.

Since the empowerment change I've played 2 monks, 2 shield deds, and 2 two-handers to at or near hero. Half were empowered, the other half were un-empowered versions. None had virtues, but I'll comment on that later.

The class as a whole as very limited options. Generally speaking you have 1 "good" option, 1-2 "mediocre" options, and a handful of terrible options in combat. You are also almost wholly dependent on active combat skills, in much the same way invoker is, but ill-equiped to actually use those skills, in exactly the same way invoker is not (with all the various forms of lag-protection invoker gets).

There are a few semi-viable builds. Elf/Azure monk, which is really just an intensify bot. Elf/Azure/Halfie champion, which is really just a bat bot. Human two-hander (don't rank past 35), which is really just a flamestrike -> strike of faith bot, and Storm shield, which is an enlarge + shieldbash bot. None of these require any real skill to execute, and if your rock encounters paper, good luck, because you have no scissors.

Two-handers have always been super gear dependent due to the lack of no-remove/no-disarm two handed swords and maces. The complete lack of a counter built into the class is a severe shortcoming. In theory a Storm TH could be competitive at hero, but you must have Bal-Talon, Defiance, and/or Fordun in addition to other good gear, because once disarmed (of which there are a ton of ways for it to happen) you are offense and defenseless. Virtues can augment that, but who wants to count on getting Temperance in order to have a character that can compete?

There are two huge downsides to two round wrath for me:
1) You have half the chance of curse + track as before
2) Your toolbox is now half as large (even though wrath wrath wrath was stupid to begin with, it was one of two "good" options, and now you just have one)

Some other random thoughts as this is basically a rambling rant:

Turn undead: 75? 50? mana, can only be used outside combat and is categorically worse than pillar spam at doing the *only* think it can do, kill undead. Not only should the lag (2 rounds), mana cost (too much), and combat use (start only) be changed, but it should also do more damage than any other option for nuking undead... Why? Because that is the only thing it can do.

Holy word: I believe that back in the day this used to do room-wide sanc (it still should) as well as all the other things it does now. Since it doesn't, the mana cost should be at least half what it is.

Frenzy: Why don't paladins have this outside of holy word?

Fervor: Does this have a use? I never found a case where it was worth the mana for the short duration and downside.

Cure deafness: Why do paladins have this!?!?! They're strictly crappy healers, but don't have cure poison/disease outside of lay hands, which would actually be useful for a paladin to be able to do, since str loss/mana drain is a giant vulnerability for any paladin build, and yet they can't cure themselves of any poison or disease, but can cure deafness... Why? Seriously.

Lay hands: There is no reason this shouldn't be applicable to self. I'd argue for paladins getting straight immunity to poison/disease at some point and *still* I think lay hands self should be possible.

Templars defense: Needs a complete re-work IMHO. It should be the thing that makes Two handers the most versitile, but so many of the options are useless (why two-round damage only vs strike of faith?). Hiltsmash is good, but it is basically your only defense against disarm, and not a super good one since you can't start combat with it.

Finally, some random improvement suggestions:

Holy word: Bring back group sanc or drop the mana.
Turn undead: Should be the best way to murder the #### out of undead bar none. It shouldn't even be close given the restrictions.
Templar's Defense: Split out into real skills, allow some to start combat, allow some to be done regardless of opponents weapons, drop all the ones that have no value (damage only).
Ascend: Strictly inferior to dash+retreat. Replace with dash + retreat or add something to make it more generally usable (can't use in cabals) and lower cost in mana and lag.
Wrath: Double wrath curse chance. Improve learning rate on track.
Cure deafness: Drop it. Replace with cure poison and cure disease.


Generally make paladins more versatile and less one-trick pony, which probably looks like a complete rework, but I've rambled enough.

Those ruin undeads and cause their army to scatter, which I guess proves your point. Any mage or bard maran will essentially have better tools to kill an undead than a paladin, and the paladin can't even use those talismans which are better than their class version of it because of the area effect (wrath) and in combat use (turn undead). Having to flee return to use turn undead definitely makes it sort of crappy, though it's damage is really high and the scattering of the npcs is pretty nice. I guess in theory it could instakill an undead PC, but I don't know if it can. If it had the same chance as say AP cleave, that alone would make it better.

Given lightforged talismans can do (without the quicker brandishing edge)
2 round area wrath
2 round in combat turn undead
you have to wonder if the paladin skill set could use a little love, when non-paladins can more effectively incorporate wrath and turn undead into fights.

I guess the only thing they have is holy word, which is better. Though the cost is really high, so spamming it in a fight probably isn't a great idea.

>Having to flee
>return to use turn undead definitely makes it sort of crappy,
>though it's damage is really high and the scattering of the
>npcs is pretty nice.

Scattering I believe only works on NPC zombies if their necro isn't in the room. I could be wrong on that.

Also, a pillar or nova or bard apoc or really any area spell probably even fireballing AP can chew through necro army as fast or faster.. Plus, you know, those have other uses.

>Since the empowerment change I've played 2 monks, 2 shield
>deds, and 2 two-handers to at or near hero. Half were
>empowered, the other half were un-empowered versions. None
>had virtues, but I'll comment on that later.
>
>The class as a whole as very limited options. Generally
>speaking you have 1 "good" option, 1-2 "mediocre" options, and
>a handful of terrible options in combat. You are also almost
>wholly dependent on active combat skills, in much the same way
>invoker is, but ill-equiped to actually use those skills, in
>exactly the same way invoker is not (with all the various
>forms of lag-protection invoker gets).

I know we used to talk in the past, but....soooooo much of this is
just....no. An invoker who walks away from the keyboard is
just about the most pathetic thing imaginable. Followed only by
necromancer and then unshifted shapeshifter. Shield dedicant
paladin is probably second *BEST* to do that with, aside sword
spec warrior.

>There are a few semi-viable builds. Elf/Azure monk, which is
>really just an intensify bot. Elf/Azure/Halfie champion,
>which is really just a bat bot. Human two-hander (don't rank
>past 35), which is really just a flamestrike -> strike of
>faith bot, and Storm shield, which is an enlarge + shieldbash
>bot. None of these require any real skill to execute, and if
>your rock encounters paper, good luck, because you have no
>scissors.

Most classes have some sort of description like that. Orcs are
bash-bots. Shifters bite/rake-bot. Rangers ambush/bearcharge
bot. Assassin may have options for skills, but it more or less
amounts to assassinate, or martial trance, maledict, lag. Of all
paladins in the last age, in order are.

1) Avenger
2) Defender
3) Monk
4) Avenger
5) Defender
6) Defender
7) Defender
8) Avenger
9) Monk
10) Defender

Champion's best comes up at 14. Yes, much of this was probably
before wrath-change, but it also goes to show *HOW* overwhelmingly
popular Champion has been. Levelling that field is probably a
good thing.

>Two-handers have always been super gear dependent due to the
>lack of no-remove/no-disarm two handed swords and maces. The
>complete lack of a counter built into the class is a severe
>shortcoming. In theory a Storm TH could be competitive at
>hero, but you must have Bal-Talon, Defiance, and/or Fordun in
>addition to other good gear, because once disarmed (of which
>there are a ton of ways for it to happen) you are offense and
>defenseless. Virtues can augment that, but who wants to count
>on getting Temperance in order to have a character that can
>compete?

I somewhat agree with this. Nothing made me run from a fight as
an avenger like getting blinded somehow, and expecting a disarm.
Something like a mini-fist-of-the-titan or bat-like defensive
ability wouldn't be crazy. Right now it just forces avengers
towards those cursed weapons.

>There are two huge downsides to two round wrath for me:
>1) You have half the chance of curse + track as before
>2) Your toolbox is now half as large (even though wrath wrath
>wrath was stupid to begin with, it was one of two "good"
>options, and now you just have one)

Half as large is overstating it. Maybe not absurd overstatement,
but they've still got options.

>Some other random thoughts as this is basically a rambling
>rant:
>
>Turn undead: 75? 50? mana, can only be used outside combat
>and is categorically worse than pillar spam at doing the
>*only* think it can do, kill undead. Not only should the lag
>(2 rounds), mana cost (too much), and combat use (start only)
>be changed, but it should also do more damage than any other
>option for nuking undead... Why? Because that is the only
>thing it can do.

Comparing turn undead on a class that has great defense, reasonable offense, and healing to a class that's good at DOING DAMAGE near exclusively is a horrible comparison. That's like saying pillar spam is better than piercing dissonance, so why do
bards even have it? Or better than APs having fireball. I'd be a
little concerned about tweaks that make this *too good* at
levelling off undead, but I could also agree that as it stands,
it could maybe use "something" to make this feasibly useful.

>Holy word: I believe that back in the day this used to do
>room-wide sanc (it still should) as well as all the other
>things it does now. Since it doesn't, the mana cost should be
>at least half what it is.

I don't remember this in the last 10-15 years, and particularly
how would this make any sense when most paladins can't sanc others
now anyways? Similar to above...you could convince me on arguing
for *something*, but not so much as you're pushing for.

>Frenzy: Why don't paladins have this outside of holy word?

Because it's a shaman thing? Again, holy word's one that I agree
isn't perfect.

>Fervor: Does this have a use? I never found a case where it
>was worth the mana for the short duration and downside.

Uh...small heal, +morale, and mental saves? Add in the paladin
edge and it gives you *RESIST MENTAL* on a stick. I loved this
thing when I played my champion. My avenger? Not unless I needed
mental saves.

>Cure deafness: Why do paladins have this!?!?! They're
>strictly crappy healers, but don't have cure poison/disease
>outside of lay hands, which would actually be useful for a
>paladin to be able to do, since str loss/mana drain is a giant
>vulnerability for any paladin build, and yet they can't cure
>themselves of any poison or disease, but can cure deafness...
>Why? Seriously.

Why they have it? No idea. Would you be happier if it just got
taken away? Not traded, taken. Because there's *NO* chance
paladins get cure poison/disease on a stick. They already get
cures for most of their problems, that's a specific, intentional
vulnerability of theirs.

>Lay hands: There is no reason this shouldn't be applicable to
>self. I'd argue for paladins getting straight immunity to
>poison/disease at some point and *still* I think lay hands
>self should be possible.

I totally want to see the paladin doing their holy laying hands
upon someone's head...on themselves. I feel like it's a D&D-esque
holdover, that it's a somewhat altruistic ability they have.
Paladins can help others more than they can help themselves idea.

>Templars defense: Needs a complete re-work IMHO. It should
>be the thing that makes Two handers the most versitile, but so
>many of the options are useless (why two-round damage only vs
>strike of faith?). Hiltsmash is good, but it is basically
>your only defense against disarm, and not a super good one
>since you can't start combat with it.

Eh, on the fence here. It's possible that people've written this
off as useless for most of these, but I tend to agree. Why have
a skill that gives you nine options when only 3 are really useful.
On the flip side, that's a LOT of options you're talking about, so
there's a point where it's like invokers - only so many ways you
can pretty up "hurt XYZ person"

>Finally, some random improvement suggestions:
>
>Holy word: Bring back group sanc or drop the mana.
>Turn undead: Should be the best way to murder the #### out of
>undead bar none. It shouldn't even be close given the
>restrictions.
>Templar's Defense: Split out into real skills, allow some to
>start combat, allow some to be done regardless of opponents
>weapons, drop all the ones that have no value (damage only).
>Ascend: Strictly inferior to dash+retreat. Replace with dash
>+ retreat or add something to make it more generally usable
>(can't use in cabals) and lower cost in mana and lag.

Again, comparing one class's abilities to another. Yeah, it might
not be as good as dash/retreat, but you're also now a *PALADIN*
that can "kinda" dash/retreat, which is better than one who can't
at all.

>Wrath: Double wrath curse chance. Improve learning rate on
>track.
>Cure deafness: Drop it. Replace with cure poison and cure
>disease.

Rest of these I think I addressed as they came up.

>Generally make paladins more versatile and less one-trick
>pony, which probably looks like a complete rework, but I've
>rambled enough.

You're complaining about wrath being made worse, AND that this
somehow made them MORE of a one-trick pony than when they were all
wrath-spammers? That doesn't make sense.

Generally, they're about...4 trick ponies. And that's pretty
similar to most classes. The "issue" I think as you see it, is
that they have *an* option for a lot of situations, but generally
only a few reasonable options in each. Hurt? Oh, I can heal, but
that's about it. Fighting? Well, I've got some extra damage. Do
I use mana, or no?

My initial post was bad, and while I appreciate the response I can't inline answer because it's all rant, which is my fault. That said here are a couple of counter opinions:

1) If shield spec paladin was second to sword warrior in the walk-away-from-keyboard tactic, you'd see a lot more storm giant shield bashing paladins and a lot less wrath spam even in the days of 1 round wrath. Instead the opposite was true: Shield spec paladin is (mostly) bash bait and you just fear missing one because then you eat 3 wraths, which might make you dead.

2) 4 Total noremove/nodisarm swords/maces in game if you include the one on a neutral dwarf and fort leader weapon. On a class with literally no answer to strip, grapple, grappleweapon, grease weapon, feint disarm, disarm with a friend, blind disarm, weaponbreaker, hook, fumble, grease, kotegaeshi (cruching version). All the Avenger's eggs are in the two handed weapon basket and there are so many many ways to drop said basket and so few ways to truly prevent it short of getting one of these weapons.

3) Turn undead is *only* useful against undead. It should be better than any other option because it only has one use case. You don't keep a single purpose tool if it isn't as good as a general purpose tool for doing the one job it can do.

4) Either paladins should help others more than themselves (Welcome back sancing others) or they are internally focused (lay hands self).

5) Please take away cure deafness. It simply makes no sense in a half-warrior half-healer skill set that lacks fundamentals like a way to cleanse poison and disease. Also low mana pool and crap regen is the thing that prevent paladins from outlasting opponents, not an inability to cure stuff.

6) Hiltsmash, spinthrust, jab (dunno which one, I alias it)... If there are other useful templars moves I guess I'm not aware of them, which doesn't mean they aren't there, but no one is using them...

7) Shield spec was always wrath spammer. They still are, they just aren't successful at it anymore... Everything else had a couple of options including wrath spam, but now has one fewer, which makes them more one-trick ponies as before you could wrath spam or strike of faith spam... That's two tricks. Simple math :P

8) My problem is that, mechanically, I see them as the counter to Lich and AP for evil powerhouse. Meaning while they can't have phenomenal cosmic power like those two, they *should* be close-ish... especially if you add on all the RP crap restrictions they also have to deal with. Can't be proud, give stuff away, don't kill neutral NPC's etc. I feel like the game simultaneously holds them to an impossible standard of virtue and goodliness, but also makes them really hard to succeed with and gear dependent in ways that specifically act counter to the RP standard to which they are held.

Paladin doesn't feel good at killing evil. It doesn't even feel good at fighting evil and making it run away anymore. They're still powerhouses in PvE and stupidly easy to rank, but scary they are not.

I rambled way more than I intended to again...

There are certainly more than 4 nodisarm/noremove weapon options for Avengers. They also have what is arguably the single best weapon on the mud available to them, which champions do not have access to.

gr

Cursed two handed maces are pretty rare, I only have fordurn.
Sober Gall is nodrop, but not cursed if my memory is correct, and I know there is a 2 handed fluted mace, but I'm pretty sure it's not cursed, though honestly I have not looked at it in years.

2 handed weapons available to an avenger I can think of
defiance
bal talon
fordurn, (hard to get since on a neutral dwarf npc)
shimmering waters
I don't know if the silver heron sword from old whitecloaks got an equivalent, but I don't think it did.
I can't remember if the paladin's blade in maethien is cursed or not, though I'm guessing it may be elf only anyway.

What other cursed options do they really have?
I wouldn't count on having easy access to defiance, or keeping it if you die. If these weapons were usable by paladins only, I'd agree with you that they have sufficient options, but since a every paladin wants defiance and a storm sword spec and a storm paladin defender will likely want bal talon and shimmering water, getting a decent 2 handed weapon as a pally for hero range is no sure thing.

If avenger paladins had a holy grip commune, that frees up a few more decent weapons like vengeance and the udgaardian avenger. Probably an easier thing than trying to code them to allow them to use one handed weapons with both hands. Make it like righteousness, so it drains them each time it works.

I did love playing an avenger dwarf, but I'd agree they are very very gear dependent to work, and virtues really do help.

Dwarf avenger actually has the easiest time in terms of getting Fordurn.

I would also say that its pretty high chance of getting leader in Fort, which also gets you a free progging nodisarm weapon.

Nya nya nya boo boo.

Is that what you intended to say with there being one more but apparently not being willing to share even the name or a vague description of it? 'Cause that's what you did.

Its called Crashing Summit and its on the guy (or right near the guy) with hummingbird pendants. Pretty much always in. Not the greatest stats ever but certainly falls well within the realm of reasonable weight and noremove.

It is adamantite which is somewhat less than ideal, but apparently I've never id'd it, so I can't say for sure if it fits. What I can say for sure is that it isn't requestable at level 47, which means it isn't even a hero range weapon, but really hero only...

because I never play those classes.

But bat should be tweaked to 1 or 1.5 rounds. That skill is broken to no end. 0.5 round lag, stacking maladicts, chance to lag, strike-size damage.

It's too much for one skill. Way too much. Adding that you CAN'T counter it since it's only stat-check. AND it's targeted skill so that you can initiate with it.

That's stupid broken.

A lot of what you just described about how the skill works isn't actually accurate. You can't base how a skill functions on a few logs on Dios of when the stars align and things work out.

And my affects following a fight with champions, which often includes 5+ maladict affects from bat spam.

More intense than lowbie duergar with good weapons and 100% in skills, or assassins with the same, or other power combos at low ranks? That I'm not sure about.

>Now that we're a good ways into the empowerment change I'm
>curious what the players/staff opinion is on the system?
>
>Personally I like the empowerment being optional approach. But
>I fear that the changes to wrath and transmute metal to wood
>hurt the Paladin and Druid classes. My thoughts:

>Paladins: The class enjoyed some diversity after the addition
>of monks and champions but with wrath becoming a two round
>supp all we're really seeing (with any real success) is bat
>spamming champions and monks built entirely around intensify.
>I understand wrath was pretty OP in the middle ranges and
>giving it in it's old state to unempowered Paladins may have
>been too much. Perhaps a happy medium would be shortening the
>lag on wrath to one round at level 51? As it stands right now
>I'd never play another shield pally.

Pretty sure it wasn't that long ago that you couldn't pay people
to play a champion paladin. Personally, I kinda feel like it's
all "in vogue"/not. Defenders are still tanking *gods*, and
honestly I feel like lessening edges such that they no longer can
have *EVERY* shield dedicant edge hurt more than the lack of wrath
spam. You don't see any 2-handed dedicants, either, and wrath is
overall pretty minimal for them.

>Druids: The transmute change hurt Savages/Outlanders
>significantly. The lack of front-claw extensions just kills my
>desire for a felar outtie. Giant cloud/mountaineer used to be
>a fearsome build but given the lack of options in gear it's
>not something I'd want to play again either.

Savages? Sure, that probably stings a bit. As for the rest of
Outlander, I feel like it brings them more reasonably in line to
make gear choices. If lacking the 6-10hp on felar extensions is
breaking your character, you've got bigger issues going on.
Literally *NOTHING* affects your cloud mountaineer unless he's a
savage ranger. You're just having to decide between whatever
stats existing gear has (that's the SAME gear for EVERY other
character), or an extra 10ish hp an item. It's supposed to be a
reward for a character gearing in natural-friendly items, not a
free 200hp just for being in the cabal.

>Which is nothing compared to what this change did to druids
>themselves. Even the best druid player in the game struggled
>to meet their former standard of glory with these changes. The
>gear pool is much smaller and because of that druids seem less
>and less common. Maybe return the power but make it
>empowerment only? Or change it so that transmuted
>armor/weapons become druid_only?

I've played druids, and while *I* personally was more in favor of
empowerment-only, or druid-only, I don't think this is utterly
breaking the class. Looking at the characters you're comparing,
one had 300+pkwins over near 700 hours including a quest ability
that seemed to help her hunting. The other had 50ish over the
span of barely 150 hours, so they went from a .43kpH to .32kpH and
also never was leader (insect swarm is HUGE on a druid) and also
doesn't account for time spent levelling (much smaller percentage
of overall hours). Honestly, I think lack of Harbinger and hours
is by far the bigger issue here.

>Just my two cents. These were two of my favorite classes
>before the changes.

Overall, I think rangers are a null point (besides savages) since
they don't have any real direct impact. I personally would
probably never have played a savage under the assumption that I'd
have pet druid available to transmute gear on a whim anyways.
Druids take a BIT of a bite, but in all of my druids...90% of what
I wanted to wear was natural anyways, and the other 10% blew up
every time I transmuted, it seemed. There's a *FEW* areas that
might lack, but overall they're not in bad shape. Outlanders
definitely took a little bump, but I they're currently the second
most popular cabal after Fortress, which is pretty impressive.

1) I don't use claw extension for hp.
2) Lilyth had many successful druids (one in Nexus stands out). I suffered against them all and steamrolled her last. The only difference there is the lack of transmute.
3) There's no avengers because wrath was still a big part of their success. More options, not less.

Beyond that I agree with your points. A lot of this is just personal preference. All I'm saying is it seems a lot of the playerbase feels these changes make the classes less fun/viable than they were before which I don't think was the intention.

Since I think you missed my point. The issue isn't that claw extensions can't be strengthened for hp. It's that they are adamantite and can't be used at all now by felar outlanders.

Please change the material to steel? Felar reavers need some love.

The 6-10 hp being in reference to the damage dealt when you get the progged strike, not the hp gained by wearing them.

Murmyak seemed to do ok recently, although that's anecdotal based on logs and in-game experiences.

I'm as much of a powergamey player as just about anybody, but clearly not being able to wear one piece of gear (albeit a very nice piece) does not make felar outlanders unplayable.

---Pretty sure it wasn't that long ago that you couldn't pay people
to play a champion paladin. Personally, I kinda feel like it's
all "in vogue"/not. Defenders are still tanking *gods*, and
honestly I feel like lessening edges such that they no longer can
have *EVERY* shield dedicant edge hurt more than the lack of wrath
spam. You don't see any 2-handed dedicants, either, and wrath is
overall pretty minimal for them.--

Shield dedicates were only tanking *gods* because of edges. With fewer edge points they became pretty dull again. With the change to wrath they became absolute crap and pretty much seasoned players won't be playing them any more, and those that do won't be seeing any sort of pk success as far as killing goes. You didn't see 2-handed dedicates during edges or before wrath changes either because other than a couple immortal played/advised elf guys they are horrible once strike of faith stops equaling a quick death for your opponent.

Paladin changes and the class detriment that came along with EP changes and wrath change is not in vogue like the assassin class bitching was. Assassins weren't really neutered completely with the changes, Paladins were. On the plus side I'm not playing Paladins again as they are so there will be less complaint on forums about the class. =)

Plenty of adamantite gear that's now unusable (*cough* strange bracers).
Plenty of other stuff too (wave dancer being my favorite and something I'
ve used with every outlander I've ever played).

Also, front claw extensions have nothing to do with HP and are the most
powerful item in the game for that gear slot for all felars. How is that
not a significant downgrade?

None of that would matter if you added additional gear to the game to
compensate, or provided alternatives. But as far as people tell me,
you haven't.

Or (hopefully) forgot while making this post.

What I took from that is he thought felar outlanders could use them but now not convert just for the sake of strengthening.

-fiso and I don't agree on much but I'm with him on adamantite in general. It's a huge hit for outlanders in general, especially felar.

A little less fun, certainly, but certainly shouldn't make/break a character. When gear gets to the point that top (or near top-end) items like this are assumed, and "unplayable" without them, something's wrong in a broader sense. This is like saying you can't play a dwarf without full Dern suit. I'm pretty sure I had them... once.

As a different aside, the fact that people have been able to more or less ignore the restriction on adamantite for 15 years speaks towards it being wrong anyways. Why have it, if it just means you take one extra step? Though personally, I'd have likely just made it so adamantite *always* blew up whole transmuting.

given how these discussions I keep joining, usually end up.

A little less fun here, a little less fun over there, those little less fun
moments add up to a not-so-little #### you in the end.

I kinda wish daevryn was back and fully in charge, I have this feeling he'd be
against a lot of the questionable and not well thought-out decisions that have happened in the last few years.

Yet you couldn't stop ####ting on him and his wife accusing them of cheating/whatever.

I mean FFS, seriously.

...I don't think I could play a dwarf warrior outside of a villager WITHOUT having the dwarven mark.

Just saying.

Keep Spellbane down tho.

...only the sanc is a spell.

Heal is a commune, and thus doesn't trigger spellbane.

Flaaayin kept telling me to use it...Tahren didn't destroy it...

I wore it for like 4 hours as Ghrim before I noticed the sanc triggered spellbane (probably only happened 1-3 times).

Then I gave it to Drayden. :)

NT

NT

What changed with transmute metal to wood?

nt

Huh. What was the rationale for that?

If the goal was to make it so druids aren't just transmute factories for the entire Outlander cabal then I'd have just made it so that transmutes items revert to their original material when handled by anyone other than a druid. If the original material was one that can't be strengthened, then they'd lose the strengthen effects at the same time.

That would allow druids to game strengthen to make sure they got +10hp on each item. Just like handing an item to an applicant removes strengthening so you can re-strengthen ;). This would make it even easier.

True. Maybe have transmute leave a "transmuted" flag on the item. Once it's been transmuted once it can't be transmuted again.