Can we change this to a 2 round spell?

It's already got some nice perks in that it goes through spellbane and goes a good amount of damage. It's kind of over the top to be 1 round. Hell, you changed wrath...

Yeah, I know you need body parts but you can embalm them to save them.

Necros are pretty powerful already!

:P

There is 1 situation where reanimate looks "too good" in my opinion, and its vs ragers. I am perfectly okay with that.

The way you built your character is pretty sub-par in terms of necro pwning, which is the trade off you make for the super high potential you have in killing lots of other things on the mud.

And was pretty good at it. But, once They became undead and I couldn't blackjack or dirt them, I was toast because of reanimate. She probably had 1/2 the hp of Oxias and no deathblow. I couldn't get within 20 feet of a mummy without dying to the chunks of the body parts that it threw at other ragers! (Hyperbole)

Thief defender/zombie fighter/blackjack/strong memory/isolate

I'm not sure how you do it with a rager thug though :)))

What you're angry at is a simple match-up issue, rather than a real problem. I've been a victim of match up problems and I've been a beneficiary. However, it isn't worth taking up Imm time to fix it on the rare occasion that it determines a fight.

I'm not trying to come off as angry or whining. I suppose people might see it that way. Oh poor baby, didn't win his fight and now he's complaining about it, that kind of thing.

Really, I experienced something I felt was excessive given some of the other advantages of a particular spell and decided to make my best argument at getting it changed. Isn't that what this board is for?

I hear you on the match-up thing. I said something similar in another post.

And you certainly do have a right to voice your opinion.

But let's examine the log you posted. Even with a full army and being one of the toughest races in the game, he still would have died if you had pulled him west after you entwined.

AND

Even with reanimate, a full army, being a boss-ass-mummy, and I'm assuming A/B/S he STILL almost died. It just doesn't bode well for your argument. If anything, he's the one that should be griping.

You can't pull after entwining. But as Destuvius pointed out you can drive. I just didn't know that. I was pretty certain you couldn't drive either, but I probably just assumed that since you can't pull.

Driving after the entwine certainly would have been the right play.

As for the rest, yeah, no one agrees with me anyhow so I think we'll just leave it there! 😀

That's part of being a rager, they both can't escape as easily, and are also too proud to run away like a chicken.

From 637hp you survived 5 reanimates including 20(!) other damage hits from the army you were taking. The reanimates must have been doing minuscule damage to you.

You try playing a necro and see how you go against a hero svirf RBW.

Edit: Link - http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?3,1099936,1099936#msg-1099936

Toe to toe it's tough going for the necro. That is why they can rescue, recall, wand up etc. I mean honestly what do you think the W-L record is between hero necros and RBWs over the years? Pretty lopsided is my guess. Yet here we have a situation where I have mitigated those advantages of his and created a situation by even your own admission I have the upper hand. Which brings me to your first comment.

blunt vuln aside I do have a ton of dam redux through gates, stoneskin and rager resist (minus the round), zombie fighter and some other things. Misses also show as scratches when thirsting.

CF is a game partly of match ups and situations and I have effectively built this character for pretty much situations just like these. Despite all this, one of the most powerful classes in the game has yet one more tool to muscle through a bad situation. And what I'm asking for is hardly even a lot. I'm pretty much asking that all ragers (those who can't lag well) get put on equal footing when fighting this powerhouse class.

It's apparent I'm not going to win this or convince anyone but I've at least made my argument.

>CF is a game partly of match ups and situations and I have
>effectively built this character for pretty much situations
>just like these. Despite all this, one of the most powerful
>classes in the game has yet one more tool to muscle through a
>bad situation. And what I'm asking for is hardly even a lot.
>I'm pretty much asking that all ragers (those who can't lag
>well) get put on equal footing when fighting this powerhouse
>class.

I think you'd be the first to admit that your tactics in that fight were severely lacking. Changes these days are all about give and take. Let's say we make re-animate two rounds and halve the deathblow multiplier?

But I did admit elsewhere that there were things I could have done better. I don't think the tactics were "severely lacking" though.

A lot of what I did was based on my judgment that I could win if I entwined the mummy right away. This is why I did not pull him away.

I also expected him to just leave once he had the Icon back. So when he walked back in, I went for the entwine.

Yes, and other things could have been done differently. I'd just like to point out that I did not know at the time reanimate was 1 round lag and that influenced my choices.

Things don't always go as you plan and you don't always make the right call in the heat of the moment. At least I don't. I mess up as much as anyone. And I like to roll the dice at times.

I always thought changes were an attempt at game balance. Not this for that. I suppose it doesn't matter these days anyhow? Scars only one guy and he probably has a list a mile long of way more important things to do.

And that's coming as a Battle Imm!

(Admittedly, I do love me some necros, too)

Reanimate itself I think is fine. The bigger problem I feel comes up with the length of embalmed parts. Will have to toss it about with committee, see what response comes out of it.

How is paladin wrath too OP to be 1 round and this is not?

Some say well they have to gather the body parts. I say that's irrelevant because that just takes time. Once they've done that it acts pretty similar in combat.

The difference is Paladins don't have an army behind them and I'm pretty sure ABS is more dam redux than sanc.

Another is that this spell is pretty much most useful against a niche set of characters. Battle ragers because of the spell bane negation (which is HUGE). It really makes it unblock able. You can't save against it or anything.

As I've pointed out before many ragers have lagging skills that can make this spell behave as if it were a two round spell but not all. I will also point out that most of those that do have lagging abilities give up defensive capabilities that leave them susceptible to the zombie army, like mace and axe specs.

And on that topic the zombie army is pretty nasty to begin with and to really deal with it you are forced to spend that preciously limited commodity of EPs.

Also please see my reply to Bemused.

Paladins are far better tanks than necros.

Wrath can't be blocked with dirt kick (I know undead can't be sorted but spectre living Necro can).

I think the solution that looks to address embalming sounds like it would help, as the Necro is less likely to have infinite supply of these things.

NT

My first question would be have you ever played a necromancer to hero levels?

Raising an army to full strength takes a ridiculious amount of time, time that can easily go poof if you die forcing you to start over. It's not like you can just collect body parts and keep them embalmed forever, so generally if you try to do one while doing the other it doesn't work out, as by the time you get a -->Full<-- army up and running you have maybe ten hours left on your embalmed body parts. Granted not every necromancer needed a full army, but I always wanted one as it made me feel more comfortable and I'd still get my face kicked in.

Playing a necromancer is very time consuming. There were very very infrequent times when I've managed to raise a entire army without failing once, and only once is a stretch even with items and edges to aid raising corpses. I think having reanimate as it is a very inconsequential trade off for the amount of time and effort it takes to play a top tier necromancer.

And wrath was waaaaaaaaay over abused, reanimate.... meh not so much as rapid fire wrathing paladins were. There were so many fights where you'd come up against a paladin that literally did nothing but spam wrath thirty two times and stand there confident they had won, which was even worse than the issue with reanimate.

They already have to invest into master embalmer edge that is crazy expensive. With nuked EP's, nerfing the edge sounds really sad.

Needing body parts is a much bigger constraint than it may appear from the victim side. Without the embalm edge it's pretty tough, even with it you still have inventory problems(they also raised the price of that edge). You really don't see it used a ton even though it is good damage because of those challenges.

If you know you will be fighting a villager (i.e. Having to retrieve) its worth the time and effort to stock up on body parts so you now have one round unstoppable haymakers. To go with your army and abs...

Maybe dropping the damage would work but if you did that I think you should also at least increase the lag enough to where you only can use what's in your inventory every round and you don't have the time to also reach into a bag and pull more out.

Namely blunt zombie and reanimate damage.

Then I wouldn't care about 1 round reanimate. He could only hit me once every 2 rounds between pincers! This is probably the reason why many haven't complained about this before. A lot of Village builds have some way to mitigate that low lag with cranial/pincer/rpk etc. For those who cannot it's an over the top advantage.

And I can't speak to it being blunt damage. I do know it does a lot of damage in general.

Don't let me start advising you to pull before entwine :)

Blunt damage makes it so much worse for village svirfs.

Reanimate is indeed powerful, but it's about different factors balancing this.

As for the battle at hand, Undaraxyl had to:

Gather full army (1 hour online).
Gather bodyparts
Gather abs

Give him some slack for not being an easy target. He also had to rank a necromancer up, which is a pain in the ass in the first place.

Partly for those on the other board saying pull for the win.

If I would have pulled the mummy instead of entwining him what would have happened?

Bear in mind, my goal is to entwine the mummy in the village where he cannot recall.

He is not doing anything at the time I entwined him to lag him long enough for me to pull and entwine after my Pull lag. So he likely flees. We are at the entrance of the village. He either flees into the village or out.

If he flees in he is going to try and GTFO. The auto attack I have going on will lag me longer than him so there is no chance for me to entwine him as he tries to flee past me. Eventually he will flee past because he is at full health with full abs. As soon as he flees past he gets his army and goes or we are back to the same place we originally were.

Yes I probably survive in this scenario but as I said before I'm trying to entwine him and go for the kill. I took the risk of doing that and fell instead.

NT

Once entwined neither go anywhere.

nt

Nt

Fine by me.

Must be cool to play a cabal that forbids fighting with full force in a war, to the point where it's preferable to die.

Are Emperor/Chancellor/Provost :)

NT

I just wrote two answers on your post. But lets say, you are good the drillmastaster, not because you die or lead your army to die, but because you lead your villagers to fight. Some imm reward somebody for killing naked chars, other imm reward villager to avoid the tought char but the village for me is those who fight to the end and don't give a #### and in the middle of that, takes with him couple of #### to his grave. :)

You cant drive someone that another person has entwined is the gimmick iirc.


You lash out with a flail forged of titanium and adamantite and entwine a Tanic Knight tightly!

A Tanic Knight narrows his eyes and glares in your direction.
A Tanic Knight's heavenly wrath === OBLITERATES === you!
A Tanic Knight has some small but disgusting cuts.

Your punch injures a Tanic Knight.
A Tanic Knight dodges your punch.
A Tanic Knight has some small but disgusting cuts.

A Tanic Knight narrows his eyes and glares in your direction.
A Tanic Knight's heavenly wrath === OBLITERATES === you!
A Tanic Knight has some small but disgusting cuts.


You step inside a Tanic Knight's slash with a quick backfist.
Your punch injures a Tanic Knight.
Your punch injures a Tanic Knight.
Your punch maims a Tanic Knight!
A Tanic Knight has some small but disgusting cuts.

You make a furious drive at a Tanic Knight and push you both into Entrance to the Village of Balator!

I'm sure that's only because of Master of Atemi Waza edge :)

If you can get around that goofy entwine bug. I learned so much from this fight! Haha. Reanimate is one round. You can drive entwined...

wilderness <1076hp 392m 1030mv 24350tnl (-26.49%) 7 AM> entwine
You lash out with a long, coiled leather whip and entwine a heavily armored dwarf tightly!
A heavily armored dwarf is gushing blood.

wilderness <1076hp 392m 1030mv 24350tnl (-26.49%) 7 AM> wi chain

A heavily armored dwarf's slash decimates you!
A heavily armored dwarf's slash decimates you!
You drive a heavily armored dwarf's slash back with your connecting blow.
A heavily armored dwarf dodges your punch.
A heavily armored dwarf dodges your punch.
A heavily armored dwarf parries your punch.
Your punch MANGLES a heavily armored dwarf!
A heavily armored dwarf is gushing blood.

wilderness <1024hp 392m 1030mv 24350tnl (-26.49%) 7 AM> wi 2.chain

You parry a heavily armored dwarf's slash.
You parry a heavily armored dwarf's slash.
You parry a heavily armored dwarf's slash.
Your punch MASSACRES a heavily armored dwarf!
Your punch MANGLES a heavily armored dwarf!
Your punch MANGLES a heavily armored dwarf!
A heavily armored dwarf is writhing in agony.

wilderness <1024hp 392m 1030mv 24350tnl (-26.49%) 7 AM>
A strange dark stormcloud gathers in the air above.
A heavily armored dwarf is writhing in agony.

wilderness <1024hp 392m 1030mv 24350tnl (-26.49%) 7 AM> Your weapon is too tightly entwined around them.
A heavily armored dwarf is writhing in agony.

wilderness <1024hp 392m 1030mv 24350tnl (-26.49%) 7 AM> You wield a mithril chain tipped with spiked spheres.
A mithril chain tipped with spiked spheres feels like a part of you!
A heavily armored dwarf is writhing in agony.

wilderness <1024hp 392m 1030mv 24350tnl (-26.49%) 7 AM> wi bloody
Your weapon is too tightly entwined around them.
A heavily armored dwarf's kick misses you.
You parry a heavily armored dwarf's slash.
You parry a heavily armored dwarf's slash.
You deliver a blow of deadly force!
Your smash === OBLITERATES === a heavily armored dwarf!
Your punch MANGLES a heavily armored dwarf!
Your smash DISMEMBERS a heavily armored dwarf!
A heavily armored dwarf is convulsing on the ground.

wilderness <1024hp 392m 1030mv 24350tnl (-26.49%) 7 AM>
You parry a heavily armored dwarf's slash.
A heavily armored dwarf dodges your smash.
Your punch MANGLES a heavily armored dwarf!
Your smash misses a heavily armored dwarf.
Your punch DISMEMBERS a heavily armored dwarf!
A heavily armored dwarf is convulsing on the ground.

wilderness <1024hp 392m 1030mv 24350tnl (-26.49%) 7 AM>
You can't see a thing!
Someone's kicked dirt scratches you.
Someone is convulsing on the ground.

wilderness <1022hp 392m 1030mv 24350tnl (-26.49%) 7 AM> pull w
You are too tightly entwined to pull anyone.
Someone is convulsing on the ground.

Entwine is a really screwy skill. Basically, if you have *ever* used a weapon to entwine someone you cannot re-wield it after you entwine with a different weapon.

The best way to work around that (at least that I have found) is to get some random weapon with a super unique keyword that you literally only use to entwine with. That way you can have your default entwine weapon and then your other ass-beating weapons on hand.

That's how I got around it.

And yes, that bug/design flaw is annoying :)

I don't know if it has something to do with even or odd number of weapons in your inventory but if you look at my log close you see I try to wield 3 different flails and only one worked.

I used to have just one of each and it worked fine. When I picked up a second flail I could no longer entwine and wield the whip.

Just before that log I tried entwining with all three of the flails and wielding the whip and it didn't work.

Go figure. your guess is as good as mine.

Just don't use flail or whip or whatever else generic item name.

wield 'flail slumber'
entwine
wield 'dark whispers'

Problem solved.

Too few people know about this, and it rocks.

Also bear in mind there is a world of difference (~500 hp) between undead and living necromamcers.

83 hours in game is how long it took Undaraxyl to: log in; gather shawtabbies; get 3 zombies, a golem and a coffer corpse, pack a bag full of embalmed body parts, drop 2 items to weaken the veil, prep and attack.

How long is 83 ticks? Somewhere between 45-60 minutes? He did not make it seem difficult at all.

and retrieving at the village vs a whip spec is one of the relatively few high danger situations you face against single opponents.

One thing to consider us that raising an army can be fast or slow depending on if you fail animated (and nobody is focused on summon killing). Historically all undead have likely had every possible edge to help with the raise rate but future ones might not.

Either way though mummy/lich is pretty gnarly but you also have to consider specters which are mostly helpless punching bags.

I'd have my ass kicked by my wife by that time already.

He was logged in for that long and had time to do all of those things and gather body parts.

I'm saying to Quas it must not have been difficult to gather the body parts because he was able to do that and all those other things in just under an hour. You yourself said just gathering an army should take an hour.

I take it your wife has protective shield so you can't just permalag her via bash or bearcharge? Clever.

She just entwines me and our three kids go for cheap shots.

And anti-gank code just never works the way I want it to.

I'd just make embalmed ones do less damage.

NT