Cf definitely needs you.

Edge points nerf, water shapeshifters, whatever else is cool for CF because it makes us bigger community.

We are not dollars to be liked by everobody, but i like in CF literally everybody except 3 people. Though i may be one of those 3 people for someone too, so it doesn't really matter.

Nt

Let him play mortals, he needs that.

Let the man unwind a bit. I know we need him, but he ate alot of hate, and still is even after stepping down.

NT

I don't miss Umiron as an implementor. He was unreasonable on too many levels. Exactly because he didn't play mortals.

So him playing morts is doing both us and him a great deal of favor in my opinion. He NEEDS that experience if he ever decides to come back as an immortal (which I would prefer to happen later than sooner because the more mortal experience the better).

I also hope that he is heavily engaged in PK. Because laying your hands on PK without having vast experience of it is oh so painful for the playerbase.

>I don't miss Umiron as an implementor. He was unreasonable on
>too many levels. Exactly because he didn't play mortals.

I wasn't an Implementor.

>So him playing morts is doing both us and him a great deal of
>favor in my opinion. He NEEDS that experience if he ever
>decides to come back as an immortal (which I would prefer to
>happen later than sooner because the more mortal experience
>the better).
>
>I also hope that he is heavily engaged in PK. Because laying
>your hands on PK without having vast experience of it is oh so
>painful for the playerbase.

Oh for Christ's sake, it's not as if I hadn't been playing it for a decade before I imm'd and stopped playing mortals regularly. My area knowledge might be rusty but ... oh #### it, I'm not having this conversation again.

Don't take offense to it. Just make fun of him :)

>I wasn't an Implementor.

Ah I'm sorry. I just consider anyone who can change a source code significantly w/o consent of the higher ups an implementor. That is twice an assumption, of course.


>Oh for Christ's sake, it's not as if I hadn't been playing it
>for a decade before I imm'd and stopped playing mortals
>regularly. My area knowledge might be rusty but ... oh ####
>it, I'm not having this conversation again.

I find it important that if you are making changes to PK mechanics, you should experience them first hand (Nep being a good example of that, even if he cheated his ass off). Your edge and empowerment (strip skills part) changes were widely criticized by the playerbase. And from your explanations for their reasons it was obvious that your reasoning was form the meta-game and statistics and "the higher good", you did not experience those changes first hand as a player.

Which for the nerfing changes I think is not very good.


P.S. That being said, I think that vast majority of playerbase doesn't know #### about balance and PK mechanics. Overpowered combos being widely considered as weak is an obvious example of that. But players surely know what's fun (they get dopamine fix) and what's not (they delete).

P.P.S. Don't get me wrong, I'm not lunging at you or whatever (like you'd give a ####). I just think that you playing mortals is a very good thing for the game and if you ever decide to try and get the seat back - it will be invaluable as well.

P.P.P.S. And I do really hope that you play PK-intensive characters.

>>Oh for Christ's sake, it's not as if I hadn't been playing
>it
>>for a decade before I imm'd and stopped playing mortals
>>regularly. My area knowledge might be rusty but ... oh ####
>>it, I'm not having this conversation again.
>
>I find it important that if you are making changes to PK
>mechanics, you should experience them first hand (Nep being a
>good example of that, even if he cheated his ass off). Your
>edge and empowerment (strip skills part) changes were widely
>criticized by the playerbase. And from your explanations for
>their reasons it was obvious that your reasoning was form the
>meta-game and statistics and "the higher good", you did not
>experience those changes first hand as a player.
>

The reality is that literally no coder in the history of CF has had the time and desire to play test every significant change they make. That's why they consult staff who do, read and consider player feedback, observe gameplay from all sides via snoop (which tends to weed out a LOT of the bias that players have), review data and trends, and so on.

And all of this is on top of, again, years of understand of how the game works (which isn't to say anyone is incapable of mistakes). But I've all that already.

I don't think the fundamental point you're making is wrong, but I do think you're exaggerating what I or anyone else (e.g., Zulg, Valg, who I don't believe played many/any mortals as coders) lack in perspective or understanding. Plus, I wouldn't subject myself to the attacks that guys like Nep have had to endure for anything, so if I do play test something I'd never claim it anyway. There isn't enough vodka in Russia, if you know what I mean. And I think you do.

NT

I miss Zulg

Good theory. That how you did the worst changes in CF history and almost finished it.

Just shut the #### up already.

I joke.

Or do I? He still has a notorious American Freedom Fighter in his basement.

To be fair it would much better if you also played a strong mortal characters like Kastellyn, Nep, Twist.

But most of all are already too old and too busy to do something new for us and become really good at it.

You was doing good job as Immortal and Coder and about 100 people needed that.

That's it and you already know this.


Also i have a strange feeling you want to be back as Umiron yourself. Overwise you wouldn't post as much.


Edited: P.S. I like both edge points nerf and removal of overpowered scrolls from one of the ships in the Seaport.

1) Nepenthe is the master of coding something, then playtesting it. It's the reason Cabdru existed (and Aulrathdien, and Jycenna, etc). People HATED him for that #### (well, they mostly hated he was just better than them).

2) How do you know he didn't play mortals when he was a Coder? Don't worry, I'll wait for your answer.

3) People whined like scalded dogs when haste potions were taken out of the game (and yes, I know they still exist in super limited forms). They thought the sky was falling, the IMMs were ruining the game, etc. CF survived, and actually continued to have really high player numbers for 3-4 years.

CFers will always act like the world is ending when a shiny toy is taken from them, regardless if it was OP or not. The goal of an Coder/IMP is to make sure that these feelings don't stop an said Immortal from doing things that make the game a better game for ALL PLAYERS.

>1) Nepenthe is the master of coding something, then
>playtesting it. It's the reason Cabdru existed (and
>Aulrathdien, and Jycenna, etc). People HATED him for that
>#### (well, they mostly hated he was just better than them).

They hated him, but they didn't hate his changes. That's a big difference here.


>2) How do you know he didn't play mortals when he was a Coder?
> Don't worry, I'll wait for your answer.

He said it himself on officials. More than once.


>3) People whined like scalded dogs when haste potions were
>taken out of the game (and yes, I know they still exist in
>super limited forms). They thought the sky was falling, the
>IMMs were ruining the game, etc. CF survived, and actually
>continued to have really high player numbers for 3-4 years.
>
>CFers will always act like the world is ending when a shiny
>toy is taken from them, regardless if it was OP or not. The
>goal of an Coder/IMP is to make sure that these feelings don't
>stop an said Immortal from doing things that make the game a
>better game for ALL PLAYERS.

This invaluable piece of information doesn't matter #### in the current discussion.

Why would I hate that change.

Players did dislike those welf edges, by the way, until they realized that they weren't as OP as they thought from watching Nep's characters.

He was a big part of the conjurer "nerf"...pretty sure all conjurer players hate him for that.

>Players did dislike those welf edges, by the way, until they
>realized that they weren't as OP as they thought from watching
>Nep's characters.

Natural Weapon Spec wasn't so bad until everyone and their brother had to add a couple nice natural weapons to their area because it's what the cool kids where doing.

Its strength was a lot more proportional when it originally went in, but drifted afterward.

...people were misunderestimating it's strength, because they were wrong about his damroll by like 40 dam :)

PS Transmute also made it kinda OP, to be honest. Two wooden HumanSunders? SURE!!!!!!

>They hated him, but they didn't hate his changes. That's a big
>difference here.

Nepenthe is a Dude, Duder, El-Duderino, His Dudeness. I love him. Always will. Voice of reason and the best MUDer I've ever had the pleasure of playing with and against (though mostly against). Also the second best area writer behind Dante Alighieri's spawn.

Yeah, one who castrated CF, banned half of remaining community and drove another half of the loyal players away. No thanx.

NT

Umiron's parting blow was healers losing fly, muters losing locate, druids losing transmute and the EP reduction. And all his recent commentary in gameplay discussions revolve around further nerfage.

Just saying.

God you guys are totally glass half empty ####s :)

in the sense that Umiron is no longer an Imm.

😂

...and leave just one room, to increase interaction between players. Also, he would likely end up removingv the "murder" command. 😀

> muters losing
>locate,

In the history of CF you've had more hero storage / locate characters than anyone else.

>Just saying.

Just saying.

Rarely dying != storage

All my muters are PKers, you know that. You know more about my history than I do.

It's not just me.

For many, many years if you polled the staff as to who they thought might be behind the uncaballed hero mage (80% of the time a conji, but still) that did nothing but locate and fetch gear, usually before or in between sessions on another character, they would point to you. That includes plenty of people who can't see IPs too, by the way. That is pretty close to the staff's actual definition of a "storage character" straight out of the helpfile, and distinctly different than your griefy CE water shifters and other such hallmarks.

And it wasn't all that uncommon, if much more so years ago than super recently, for some of that choice gear to coincidentally end up on one of your other characters at some point, or in the hands of an ally of one of your alts.

Now, is that the chiefest of sins? Not really. But it's probably what drove Valg (and to a lesser extent, myself) to give no ####s, as they say, about being hard on those types of characters.

And yeah, as I've said elsewhere I thought the locate object gimmick using body parts and blood and stuff for muters is a dumb gimmick, as common a past time as it was, and I don't really care if people miss that. I get why they miss it, but it certainly was never an explicit part of the class design and I'm still glad it's gone.

EDIT: I don't know if or why this matters, but I actually tend to like your serious explore chars that make an effort to RP and integrate players outside your circle of friends. But you also tend to cross the line, albeit sometimes just barely, and force the staff's hand. I was never "out to get you" (or anyone else), but I certainly rolled my eyes a handful of times when I'd pop in for 10 minutes at 6AM and see something that made me go "he's doing that with them again?!" when you'd be lectured about it days or weeks prior. Anyway, I think if you adjusted the way you approach the game just a tiny bit you'd not only have more fun but more importantly (to you), you would get what you want more often.

I love me some Palan, but #### if some of his characters haven't pissed me the #### off.

Yeah I played a few back to back to back uncaballed good align conjurers when I returned to CF to relearn the mud. Correct me if I am wrong but they were Polymnia, Diapatre and Caliadne (sp?). Yeah I managed to explore ~95% of the mud with those three and lock down some nice gear. I'm sorry they upset you so much.

And yep I played a few -> PK <- water shifters; Sai and Nachmanedes. I am happy to not hide behind the characters I play unlike most people here.

And don't worry, I know it's not just you. Most of the remaining Imms would prefer I didn't bother returning to CF. They are as subtle as a punch to the face.

Regardless, welcome back big fella <3

I literally did not have the patience to do it with either of my 2 water majors.

It's like playing a ranger who sits in camo for an hour waiting for a specific character. I don't have the patience to do that ####. I'm always impressed by players who can.

Let me start with a positive thing. I think that overall you are a net positive on the mud. Especially since you are putting a big effort into including the random misfits on all of your exploration fun and showing people all sorts of cool ins and outs.

Now for the less positive thing:
The problem is less that you play PK water shifters (or other assorted "griefy" chars) and more that those chars often seem to exist only when your "main" character is someone without pk chops or a real way to get back at people. You then use said "alts" to pk or annoy or whatever people for OOC reasons.