Is an increase in the way edge points are dolled out. I would love to have my interest in actually playing CF (instead of prowling boards) rekindled.

Please consider either rolling back the changes to obs/explore/etc edge exp until a new system can be rolled out.

Or,

Simply award edge points based on char level/etc and "level" the playing field.


The changes have led to pre-change characters holding what used to be the "norm" of edges, and left no room for a character rolled post changes to "compete" in terms of the amount of edges available. And, characters often live for YEARS with the current state of the game.

Re-balance the scales? I know Nexus is gone and all..but please?

Happy Holidays!

Please consider either rolling back the changes to obs/explore/etc edge exp until a new system can be rolled out.
No edge points for observation/exploration makes me more likely to play.

Unfortunately, it's a huge effort to try to adjust the edge cost/reqs for this brave new world. And it seems that the only one who can do it at the moment is Scarabaeus. I'm sure he has a lot of other things on his plate and probably currently working hard to make Entropy skills work, for an easy example.

However, as things currently are, no one is going to take low-impact edges or flavor thingies as the EP's are much harder to come by.

On the other hand, some edges (Nage Waza, spine of the agaraka, swashbuckler, seven winds, balanced percussionist, parry anything, etc, etc) provide such an immense change to the char that it's almost two different builds before and after. Thus there's a perceived "need" for vets to have those must-have edges as the way the char without them plays is severely underpowered, at least in perception, and probably in reality. This is purely mechanical and in order to compete, vets feel the build needs a certain edge/combination of edges. In some cases, this is true and in some it's perception or just getting used to the way certain builds used to work and no longer do. Consequently, the frustration.

True solution IMHO would be to roll in the flavor and low-impact edges into classes, take out or nerf the edges that significantly change the build and adjust the existing skills and success rates to account for the edges taken out.

Intermediate solution would be to dole out EP's based on longetivity/levels, say 1 per 10 levels and 1-2 per 50-100 hours. Thinking this accomplishes the thirst for EP's and works for both newbs and vets and can be coded fairly easily.

NT

I am someone who actually enjoyed grinding out obs/explore(*) and was vocal about it remaining in place. Now that it has been taken out I do take solace from the same people who wanted it gone now bitching about a lack of EP.

Note: I'm not saying you in particular were one to ask for obs/exp to be removed.

* I still grind it out now anyway for the extra skills and experience

I learn stuff and find new things doing said grinds. Like you said the skills and experience is still worthwhile, plus it has effects on other things people forget about. Like requirements for other edges. And I might have this wrong, but I think certain edges work better the more observe experience and/or explore experience you have.

The grind can actually be new and challenging. For example, can you take that fragile class and explore that dangerous area?

Also, it can inspire good interaction between characters. One of my favorite experiences as tsalantha was exploring glymarach's with a couple of characters I would otherwise be pk'ing. It took cooperation to figure stuff out, there was some banter, and we fought to survive together (with varying degrees of success).

And I HATED the chore of the grind.

But having no edges is just so much worse. Sorry, exaggeration. Having two or three edges is so much worse.

At this point I absolutely want the grind back in. I just feel that there is a newbie/veteran disparity here.

*laugh* but I bet there are newbies out there than would rather they have 3 edges and a veteran 10 than them 0 or 2 now edges they get now.

Edges were fun. CF is missing short term milestones now. The RP, legacy of the character of COURSE is the ultimate goal, but lets not fool anyone... the edge milestones was something that keeps everyone active, playing, and having fun during otherwise slow hours.

I mean, ####, with Bron I finally killed the King in Aran'gird (which I had never done in my CF history).

That being said, with both of my last 2 chars since the edge point nerf, I've found while I still explore, I'm not over-anally exploring (as in, spending a minute per room checked all mobs + room keywords).

I've also stopped trying to do Area Explore runs at lower levels. Now, I understand that in some ways that's a bad thing (takes an element of excitement out of the game, achievement, etc), but it certainly kept my CON higher :)

Edited to add: And, as you said, still valuable to do in other ways (experience, observation skills, etc).

Edited again to add: I would be in favor in seeing some incentives being added to the game. I think the major issue right now is that IMM xp was supposed to be increased and it happened at the same time a lot of IMMs deleted, so it never actually "increased". If we still had 15+ IMMs that were interacting, I think it would. Then again, by that logic, we'd likely have 50+ players on at peak times with those IMM numbers, and we'd all be having more fun :)

Have you played a char since the most recent EP change? If not you should at least give it a whirl before writing it off.

I have. Two edges on a 200+ hour hero is... rough, and those aren't even really expensive edges. Specially competing with long lives characters pre-edge nerf (assassins and warriors) with 10+ edges. It's not actually competing, it's just struggling to survive. Granted, I have decided not to write roles anymore, because I don't think they actually ever get read. But, last name, hero, 200+ hour character with 2 mid expensive edges... bleh. You can't compete with 10+ edged characters who may still be around for years to come. I am pretty new here still, a bit over a year, but I wouldn't say I am completely #### in the PK dept... I suppose once the playing field is level, and there are no pre-nerf characters left to compete with, maybe it all evens out.

But I haven't seen a change to edges since Umiron removed obs/explore. Is there something I am missing?

That was the most recent change. Have you played since that one?

Lots of people have played chars since the EP change, and the majority want the edge points back. Even the guy who advocated hard for the removal of explore/observe edge points threw a tantrum with his last char because he claimed he didn't have as many edge points as he SHOULD have had, to the point that he "quit" playing again. It's not like people are asking for enough points to have 10+ edges. Enough for maybe 1 more high cost edge(or two mid/low cost edges) per person I think would make a HUGE difference.

Basically, everyone pretty much feels it's a reasonable request. And to be fair we really haven't been given a good explanation as to why the staff thinks it's unreasonable.

The one guy who was doing code work relating to edges left. So now you guys need to try and convince Scar to do it.


As for the other question, yes I have played since the change. I pretty much always have a low key mort going because I feel its important as an admin to see the game from all perspectives.

I have always felt, and continue to feel, that things like edges or gear or preps are not nearly as important as people try to make them. Player skill (well and possibly that bitch that is the RNG) is the ultimate factor now in success, just like it always has been.

I've often been one to argue against those who say "I'm forced to do {enter any type of grind} in order to have a fair chance at competing in PK." Nobody has ever forced anyone to do anything in the game. It's a game. It does not matter how many edges/gear/preps you give someone if they have no actual skill. I'm completely with you on this.

The real problem is it's a funstick issue at this point, and the stick has been taken away. It's really as simple as that. Giving back SOME edge points isn't going to break the game, but it would increase the fun factor.

Please don't take this as just bitching because that's not my intention. I really feel it would be within everyone's best interest. Thank you for your response. This communication between the imms and players is a very good thing, so many thanks for the time and effort you all spend on us crybabies. :) Happy Holidays!

-cheers

N/T

And probably could use a rebalancing, in the way that some other edges have already been rebalanced.

If rebalanced then it wouldn't really matter much if people ground them out because they'd have only small impacts. But there would still be tailoring, uniqueness, ability to fit skills to role etc.

A terrible player with an "OP" edge isnt going to make them suddenly good. A skilled player with no edges will whip a terrible player with all the "good edges" 99% of the time.

Not saying you gimp badass players, how about not buffing their already immense ability?

Last I checked we were on the same team that moar edges is not moar awesome....

Don't you go start flip flopping and suddenly joining the I want moar edges wagon.

When I was talking about incentives, I wasn't talking about edges :)

I'm sure this would be a bitch to code, SO, I don't expect it to be implemented.

But what if players hitting certain benchmarks get set up for specially-created quests?

For example, you took away edge points from PK. That's good! Now, what if you created a quest whereby someone with 100 PKs before hero (for example) had to do something crazy/challenging to get a reward. Perhaps that reward is a restrung piece of gear (for example, say it's an Empire assassin, give them a restrung bloody tunic that has an imperial codex now, or whatever), a minor skill/spell (spells like minor ward, skills like setfracture), or whatever.

Another example would be a character with obscene obs/exp. Maybe a mob gets triggered to send said character a tell at 30/30K benchmark, asking for some ingredients to a potion? Potion gives +10 hp +20 mana +50 moves, but ingredients are like a minor mummy/lich quest in that they are relatively hard for a solo character to just run through and grab.

This way you are still creating incentives for players to try and do behavior that they find enjoyable without giving them a noticeable mechanical advantage (I mean, 10 hp is nice and all but I'd rather have 2 edges to be honest in terms of power potential).

I'm still with you on the stated endgame re: Edges btw. I think only stellar, long-lived characters should ever have more than 5. That way you're "forcing" people to actually "put up/shut up" re: customization. I wasn't upset that I could only choose 3 edges ~ 150 hrs with Bron, I was upset I choose edges that I probably shouldn't have :)

But sounds like alot of work, designing for each race/class/cabal...

But sounds like alot of work, designing for each race/class/cabal...

Not convinced this is an improvement.

There are already quests to boost hp etc and having one more, while kind of cool, isn't as cool as getting the ability to do things slightly better than before, or do things you just couldn't do before.

For example, offhand disarm with less lag opens up new options.

Player skill will probably trump all in the long term but in the short term not necessarily. Parry all is a good example. There's that log of my char cagocluse parrying every skill used against me by two chars in a drawn out fight. Ok, it isn't normally that effective but on dexy sword spec it is still a very big boost rather than a modest one.

YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE A LEGACY FOR EVEN A CHANCE AT ONE-ROUND DISARMING...BUT THERE IS AN EDGE FOR 1 ROUND OFFHAND? WTF?!?!??!?!

It's like 1,5, and it increases success rate. Personal opinion - it's one of the two must have edge for any warrior pk-wise.

We all know your only 2 "must have" edges for a warrior pk-wise are "stone shoulders" and "iron shoulders".

Thanks to his EP changes I was not able to get enough to obtain those two must have edges as my last warrior. For shame!

I get that when edges first went in the didn't anticipate how many players would accrue. Or the creation of explore scripts, or jerk multi killers.

That being said it's pretty clear players liked having options. And several class edge systems were built with multi edge synergy intended.

I love umi but his scortched earth approach pre deletion is not in the best interest of the game from a player satisfaction perspective. Throw us a chrismas bone and roll it back to include pk and explore. If individual edges or collections are over the top address those.

As it stands now edges are massively imm awarded (leader, role, imm xp, last name, tat). Age and hitting hero are all us neophytes can earn on our own. If you want to leave this as the only path then maybe rebalance the net earned away from imm required to player drive ... I mean wasn't an original design feature of edges to create player driven automated micro rewards?

I always viewed them as short term milestones. Granted I've never had many, I think Sarratia or Keilan had the most at 2 or 3, but they werent even hero yet. Its a small feel good, giving a sense a accomplishment (as small or false as it is)

Im also of the mind of raising edges a bit more. Maybe small milestones, like instead of just old age, mature gives a small amount, middle aged gives a small amount, things that just happen naturally and encourage longevity. Or small level milestones, 25, 35, 51? I dont think thats all too unreasonable.

They are small incremental goals that I can keep working toward that promote interest in my character. I found trying to low level explore and kill with all sorts of classes to be far more interesting than spamming skills. Sure I can still do those things but it's not as satisfying. Why bother trying to run high lords at 42 anymore...

When you had edges to work towards by a) getting some successful pk's b) picking an area to explore/observe (though I hated that chore) etc... you were building towards things on your character.

Its the same reason that so many Massive Online Games have been successful. And even though most of us are here because we like CF better, there is reality that the majority of the player base LOVED working towards those edges. And taking that away lowers playing time and incentive to stay logged in.

There should be a fun grind or thing to work for constantly for more edges. While taking away the observation/exploration grind was a good thing as it was horrific. The immortals just need to find a way that we can actively pursue more edges all the time in a way that balances newbies/veterans.

I hope you delete your IMMs with leader powers when you roll up morts.



😀

n/t

have received a total of 800 imm experience outside of role experience. Stand back and be amazed.

Just play a highly active, successful pk character following an immortal who is active during your playtimes. (Note: I manage to create unsuccessful powerhouse builds and every religion I have followed has coincided with the immortal going dormant after 1 week of play.)

Getting immortal love is all about marketing yourself. Look at the characters with the immortal love as a guide. You have to be fun to watch, and being an active, successful pk character is a great way to market yourself. Sure, you can do it with roleplay, but to my knowledge there is not an immortal channel that notifies when a character says something witty or gives an appropriately Machiavellian emote.