Having rolled an entropy conjurer (because well, demons in echoes?), I was baffled to see help entropy.


"In its current incarnation, the Barons of Entropy have focused their efforts through the use of Chaos Magic. Only mages of the appropriate ethos might receive the gifts of the cabal: transmuters, shapeshifters, invokers, necromancers, and anti-paladins."


I hope this is typo and conjurers were accidentally left out?

Which is a pity, because evil conjurer is a hell of a lot of fun.

I don't think it breaks game balance too much to allow conjurers in? The synergies in Entropy right now would be:

1. Invokers (shields and AoE)
2. Transmuters (haste/slow and lag)
3. Shapeshifters (weak lag)
4. Anti-paladins (lag)
5. Necromancers (nothing other than sheer deathfulness)

Conjurers are pretty much the same as Necromancers in that they offer only deathfulness.

Contrast that with certain additions with more synergy:

1. Bards (song buffs and AoE)
2. Warriors (benefit from quickening, very good lag)
3. Assassins (scouting, benefit from quickening, best Nage Waza lag in the game, silent retrieval, hidden threat)
4. Healers (healing and sanctuary and Gate scouting)

Or Tribunal, or Empire, or Herald.

means that we won't hear an answer because it's questy stuff and we'll have to sacrifice the only virgin left in Thera to demons (who are inherently chaotic) in order to let conjurers in?

And all I see here is people complaining. I don't know about you, but I've been jumping for joy ever since I saw evidence that this really is happening. I know of others that are just as happy if not more about this. I've heard of old players that are going to make a return once the cabal is up and running. All this good stuff happening, but you're all mad because conjurers are not entropy_kosher? You're going to nit pick and complain about the imms just because of that?

Come on.

You misunderstand something.

nt

Feel free to do so.

You haven't.

All of a sudden everyone wants to play conjurers. I must have missed the memo. You could not pay me enough to play a conjurer post edge-nerf.

Which was pre-edge nerf, but I think I only had 2 edges in 66 hrs, so it's not like I missed much.

I thought they were amazingly powerful, even with the severe drawbacks. I never messed with devils or archons, but I could easily solo-rank on hooded mobs as with demons/angels + elemental + familiar. Sure, I'd have to make sure I was near a healer whenever I did it, but still.

That being said, I died a metric ass-load to my conjurations...think I only had 4 "real" deaths in 66 hrs which is pretty damn good for me.

PS Phase Wasp is OP.

I'm so happiez.
Turquoise bicycle shoe fins actualize radishes greenly!
+100 Lyristeons to everyone.

nothing to see here, doublepost

Invokers
Have to repeat the same incantations thousands of times to perfect their ability to cast spells to move forward in the guild. No room for imperfection. Any change to the prescribed methods does not work.

Necromancers
Their life is the study of how to take a corpse and imbue it with a pseudo form of life who has no free will and is only capable of following orders.


I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to join Entropy. Just saying it's tough to make a justification to exclude conjies but allow those two.

Mages can have different tones of voice and still get the same spells right. They could have different accents, and still get the spells right. There is plenty of room for imperfection, as long as you have magical talent in your blood or genes and as long as you get the words right. There is absolutely positively no room for error when drawing the wards of a conjuration barrier. NONE!

As for necros, when someone dies their soul leaves the body. The leftover body is nothing more than decomposing matter that is slowly returning to the earth. The earth is where we find material to make tools, tools we use. Those bodies are nothing more than material from which to use to make tools. They are no longer living, merely animated, and thus have no freedom to take from them.

Conjurers summon beings away from their home worlds against their will, and then to make matters worse they bind them against their will to serve the conjurer. There is no justification needed. It's clear as crystal.

It's not clear! WE WANT ENTROPY CONJURERS!

NT

So you're trying to tell me that incantations can be imprecise but circles have to be precise? I'm not buying it.

That's not what I said, but if you want to be an ass about it here you go.

So you're trying to tell me that all races in Thera sound *exactly* alike? You're trying to tell me that a human sounds exactly like a duergar which sounds exactly like a drow which sounds exactly like a fire giant which sounds exactly like a gnome which sounds exactly like an arial which sounds exactly like a felar which sounds exactly like an elf? On top of that you're trying to tell me that all men sound EXACTLY like all women? I'm not buying it.

Nope, I actually agreed with you on that point. I was more going for circles seem more like incantations in that you have to have all the key points correct, but it doesn't seem feasible they would all be drawn with the exact same size/line weight/etc to them.

And ease up. Wasn't being an ass. You disagreed with me and I disagreed with you. That's just a discussion.

And hey who knows what will happen. Maybe after three months the demons or whatever will turn on the cabal, and they'll be recruiting conjurers to dimsiss them or something crazy. Who knows.

I see what you're saying about the circles. In my head yes they actually would be drawn with the exact same size/line weight/ect. All different points of view. Sorry for calling you an ass, my bad.

All we have from the helpfile is they love freedom/chaos, it's just for chaotic mages except conjurers, and there is some tie in to demons. There have been a number of demons with the titles "of swords" talking to evil mages. The old masters tower has a beer elemental that does old entropy powers.

There are pretty big gaps in the lore right now that could explain the conjurer thing that just haven't been revealed. Given nexus is semi defunct and entropy is Mage only my bet is that we also see masters come back as order mages. You know like the village origin story of the battle between order and chaos mages... Anyway that's my guess.

Maybe the conjurer shouldn't use circles, and should randomly pick what he conjures. Although you need to survive to induction...

Yes it's possible to use unbound demons and angels in niche situations, but for the most part conjurers bind servitors. That is how it works, and it goes against everything Entropy is about. Having a familiar would be along the same vein as well, even though they're not bound they are still basically your servant.

Based on what exactly? The binding is a means to an end, it isn't like it spreads order wherever the bound demon goes. If you are trying to say that the demon would be mistreated in some way in Entropy eyes by the binding, I think your entropist ideals would be better served in the Tree personally.

The only thing in the helpfile for Entropy screams a perfect fit for a chaotic conjurer other than the last like where the class name is missing.

nt

I don't even have a character right now but here's my guess at it.

Conjurers, in lore, have to follow a precise method and procedure to call and use their servitors. Each line in each rune in the circle must be perfect. They have to act a certain way for each type of servitor in order to get any use from it (and possibly to save their life.)

Even a conjurer who uses his bound servants for chaotic acts has a large part of his life be uttrely routine, the same actions done the same way, over and over. He is predictable. And that's just not the kind of mage they want in entropy.

Come on man.

The binding isn't about making them a slave anyhow, it is magic that helps an otherworldly being stay on the prime plane, like they want to be, with safeguards in place.

And..as for Entropy, why do they care what an otherworldy creature does or doesn't want while it is in the prime in Thera...they seek Thera to return to it's natural state, whatever tools are used to do it seem to be a moot point.

It probably has much less to do with what the conjurer can call and bind and all that, and more to do with HOW the conjurer does it.

The inherent symmetry within conjuration circles and the geometry required for such a thing is antithesis to chaos, I'd think so anyway.

I recall a number of people being booted from the cabal because they were powergamers and didn't care about the principles of the cabal. Randomizing rooms with doors in them wasn't the only reason people got the boot from the barons. Yes they are a bunch of chaotic lunatics, but there is very much method to their madness. Conjuration goes against their principles in a number of ways.

I did the same, got the role in, and actually got really really fast role exp on it. Then I talked to the First Mage titled guy and he told me no conjies and I thought he was Fing with me. Then I saw Venara's note in game and about screamed, now the help file confirms it.

Really frustrated, as I was really wanting to try conjurers out in this new capacity, and the role fits it perfect. But now since I got role exp on it, I can't even flip the role to another class and re-roll.

I imagine the demons doing business with them might not be find of being bound.

Or notes to the cabal as applications. I'm curious to see where this goes. Entropy is either a really great addition or a really horrible addition depending on implementation.

I'm hoping for the former, not the latter :)

My conjurer is the epitome of chaos. Perhaps I'm still gonna try it. Becuase if not, I'm gonna join ragers, because there's nothing magical about nightwalkers.

AP/necro with sleep triggers, mirror image, and dopple would be annoying. Same with necro army and confuse, or being any Mage with no casting garble.

But right now we don't know nothing so I am looking forward to the reveal.