Hello Everyone!

Its good to be back to carrion fields. I loved edges. It was a further customization and I love carrion fields customization beyond even just class.

I wanted to propose some further adjustments that will make players happy while keeping with the smart choices immortals have been making.

1) Getting rid of the observation/exploration grind is awesome. It definitely had become 30+ hours of work every time a new character was created to just "stay competitive" and "not miss out" on edge opportunities. I also agree this change closes the gaps between newbies and veterans which I always think is a GREAT thing.

2) Getting rid of pk contribution to edges obviously hurts me a lot. But again, my logical brain thinks this was a great thing. I myself was guilty of "not leveling too fast". I personally tried to make sure my kills were in the context of my characters goals, but I DO THINK it promotes more irrational killing and bloodthirst. It is too bad that there is not edge reward sfor good pk skills, but overall... better for the game. This also closes the newbie-veteran gap again. As good pkillers just got better and dying newbies were left behind.

3) PROPOSED ENHANCEMENT: *Can we do a slight reduction across the board of all edge costs* I'd actually propose a SIGNIFICANT reduction, but it might be better to do it in a series of slight adjustments. Players love edges. We've fixed the explore/observe grind. We've eliminated the pkill incentives. CONSIDER: What's left is the things that you want to promote in carrion fields: Roleplaying / Cabal Interaction / Long-lasting characters by heroing and age. The immortal team has essentially closed the veteran-newbie gap and power curve, so can we add the edge fun back in for EVERYONE.

4) SO EVERYONE DOESN"T JUST HAVE ALL EDGES: (which I honestly don't think would happen if everyone got a few more edges since its so low now) Immortals can further tweak the edges individually as they are doing. Beyond what should be expensive or cheap from a power standpoint... tweak them up and down based on how rare or common of picks they are. This would encourage diversification instead of cookie cutter selections.

BONUS: Thief rant. I love thieves. After druids. I wanted to make a thief the last 18 months, but didn't based on devious versatility. When I've brought this up before, it was said by immortals that they'd "rather just lower and adjust the cost of thief skills across the board". That's great, but obviously not in the short-term plans. In the meantime, can devious versatility be significantly reduced to be put in line with the major edge point decreases? This is still a major nerf to the thief class.

Thanks

I know it isn't an easy task, but as a question to imms, is the staff any closer to implementing a system to replace some of the lost edge points? Or should we just accept as the new normal the cutback?

1. The intention behind obs/explore exp was good, but the issue is that it was implemented in such a way that you were repeating the same content and not required to actually read or learn anything once you knew the mechanics behind it. I agree this was a good change.

2. The issue with PK edges is that it is such that the rich get richer. You can have someone who does not RP continually kill other people, because they are actually better at item knowledge or PK mechanics, or even that they have good support without contributing anything else to the game. That is the larger issue with Pk related rewards.

3. Edges should be adjusted periodically so that an average player has a handful to work with. They are meant to be additional and beyond gameplay. Not to say they should not be significant. I hope edges slowly evolve into unique choices with powerful options. Assassins have probably the best set of edges created for them. Not only are they unique but you cannot have every edge because it is a choice. The more classes become that way, the more real choice a player has. Unfortunately, that is not a simple or quick thing to add to the game.

4. I think your last item involves more than what you mentioned. Having more options for a player in general would really fix this. It is also the most difficult of all problems. If you have ideas for edges for a specific class, I'm sure the imms are glad to hear any opinions you have. It is all about making the game more interesting and fun.

"You can have someone who does not RP continually kill other people, because they are actually better at item knowledge or PK mechanics, or even that they have good support without contributing anything else to the game. That is the larger issue with Pk related rewards."

This is an RP-enforced game, if someone does not RP he will be dealt with accordingly.

What you probably meant (and should have phrased differently) is someone "who does not RP to what your (or the IMM) model/frequency/standard of RP is".

Which again is missing the point entirely cause you're trying to shoehorn people into specific behaviors, which is always going to end up with cognitive dissonance on the part of the playerbase, drama and people leaving the game.

I keep repeating myself when I say that CF is and always has been a PK/RP game, not a RP/PK game. The mechanics, strife and interactions behind PK are what brought the crowds and made the game what it used to be in its golden days.

But the past few years we've seen a *total reversal* on the part of the IMMs as to what they think CF is or should become. Well, whatever changes towards that end they've made in the past do not seem to be working, in fact one could say they've been a colossal disaster since they alienated veterans, replaced fun with tedium and led to mass exodus. Only now *some* are beginning to get the picture and are trying to rollback some of the damage hoping it's not too late.

If I have a suggestion to make it's this: Stop focusing on the illusionary "average player" or the mythical "new player who has a chance against the vets now cause the big bad PK-rewarded edges are gone", take a *big* step back and adopt a hands-off approach, simplicity and emergent gameplay with an emphasis on fun.

gr

The handful of instances that I can think of in the recent past that involve people being punished for breaking RP have also been met with nothing but hatred and drama on forums. And I'm not just talking about things that are considered to be "bad RP" by the imms, but things that have even been deemed bad by the playerbase on the forums after the post made its way to Dio's or whatever. So its a lose lose in that situation because we either allow said poor behavior to occur to try and placate an already shrinking playerbase, or we handle it and lead to someone (not always) having a meltdown on the forums over it. Neither of those things are good for the longevity of the game, for various reasons.

To a point, the staff has become much more "hands off" primarily because of a lower number of people to be involved in handling things. It also has not done anything positive because all that happens is people complain about their lack of imm-related support and perks. An example of this is a deaththread from a long time player who could easily be considered in the "vet" category.

I know that you haven't played in a while (based on your own commentary) so I think you have a slightly inaccurate perception on what the current landscape of CF is in terms of the type of player we have (in terms of average, newbie, vet etc). I don't think that your statement of vets leaving for reason X, Y, and Z is inaccurate by any stretch but I do think that your belief that we should focus on the smaller % of the current population (the Vets) instead of the larger % (the average or new player)is wrong.

Are you implying that vets are minority in current CF? Cause I've been playing this as "I'm a newb surrounded by vets FEAR THE SHADOWS" style for a long time now.

Some only consider people who played 20 years to be "vets".
Others consider anyone who can PK well a "vet", as opposed to those who can't, regardless of years.
And for some people "vet" means veterinary doctor.

I didn't complain about my lack of imm-related support and perks.

I think I got plenty! Thanks!

I was merely commenting on now that there is no way to obtain edge points, characters that DO RP often, should be rewarded more often.

It was not meant to be a complaint, more of an observation post EP nuke.

If you weren't talking about me, the above still stands. :)

gr

Umiron did suicide bombing on edges because they were haram.

The original plan was just to make it so that *you* couldn't get edges from the various things anymore.

We however had to modify the plan accordingly because we didn't want to validate all the people who say you are treated differently by the imms.... so everyone got the same treatment.

Also I am back on the IMM good side lately and get all the rewards and legacies again. Read the memo.

please remove rank restrictions for obs/exp now that they don't give edge points?