I do not know any of you, how decisions are made, implemented, etc. So, don't take this personally because I address you as a single entity when you obviously are not. Honestly, sometimes it seems that you intentionally troll the playerbase.

1) Why would you make a change that you knew would be very controversial and disappointing to many players without any explanation?

2) Did you still think that characters were still getting too many edges?

3) Was this change meant to punish and/or thwart those who may still be trying to script obs/exp XP?

4) Do you realize that if so, you are also punishing those who do not?

5) Do you understand that making everyone pay for the actions of a few only makes sense when bad behavior can be influenced by peer pressure? CF is not such an environment.

6) If the issue is scripts and/or players not liking to farm Obs/Exp XP (as opposed to characters having too many edges), why not take the time to implement an alternative way to get edgepoints before removing the Obs/Exp method?

7) Do you think that this change will make the majority of players more or less compelled to roll another char once their kids are in bed?

8) Was this change made for the good of CF or to satisfy a personal dislike against "min/maxers". Whom I'd much rather see min/max than not play.

>I do not know any of you, how decisions are made,
>implemented, etc. So, don't take this personally because I
>address you as a single entity when you obviously are not.
>Honestly, sometimes it seems that you intentionally troll the
>playerbase.
>
>1) Why would you make a change that you knew would be very
>controversial and disappointing to many players without any
>explanation?

I've given my thoughts on observation / exploration and edges numerous times.

>2) Did you still think that characters were still getting too
>many edges?

Probably.

>3) Was this change meant to punish and/or thwart those who may
>still be trying to script obs/exp XP?

Partly, a "this is why we can't have nice things" sense. But it's not the sole, or even the biggest reason for the change.

>4) Do you realize that if so, you are also punishing those who
>do not?

Punishing isn't the right word. But yes, we obviously realize that those who happily "farmed" OXP/EXP are affected too.

>5) Do you understand that making everyone pay for the actions
>of a few only makes sense when bad behavior can be influenced
>by peer pressure? CF is not such an environment.

See above.

>6) If the issue is scripts and/or players not liking to farm
>Obs/Exp XP (as opposed to characters having too many edges),
>why not take the time to implement an alternative way to get
>edgepoints before removing the Obs/Exp method?

There were and still are multiple sources of edge points.

>7) Do you think that this change will make the majority of
>players more or less compelled to roll another char once their
>kids are in bed?

I think once we've all had our pint and things have blown over the majority of the people who were playing and enjoying CF before yesterday still will be, yes.

>8) Was this change made for the good of CF or to satisfy a
>personal dislike against "min/maxers". Whom I'd much rather
>see min/max than not play.

I can't speak for everyone, but I can say that every change I've made was or is something I thought was in the best interest of the game, at least at the time I made it. I feel that way about this change too, and I think that's backed up by the opinions I've shared about edges and observation/exploration in the past.

I left EPs for EXP/OXP alone despite being convinced it was a failed feature because even so it did still achieve some of its intended goals with some players, but certainly having players openly asking for scripts and posting leaked 52+ helpfiles was the final EXP/OXP related headache we just don't need. This change was coming regardless, but that's probably why it happened yesterday vs. next month or next year.

No. Its not the sarcasm. I asked for that change and I got it. Yes, it will hurt my edge points since I farmed OBS/EXP for them, but its good for the game. I'm ####ing hate to spend 1.5 hours with EVERY my char in the seaport just to get the access to edge point. Sure, now I'll not get this edges, but #### it.

But also, I hope you will review edge point system in some way.

PS: And if you went that way, you should logicaly remove edge points from commerce exp, since it can be easly farmed (####, what I am doing :) ).

You tell us that we have too many edges on the char BUT

you gave the LEGACY not to the warrior, you gave it to the assassin and told us that was ok and not op.

So, remember, I don't know who gave ORB those helpfiles, but its the important experience to the imm crew. Everything will be known, like with Nepenthe, Sebeok, Cyradia, Ordasen and many other imms. ####ty and non-####ty leaks to community. And ####ty things leaks faster.

At level 21 to Jalim...

When is the last time anyone got a legacy before level 30, let alone a non warrior...

Smells like surströmming

Was it that guy with ooc connection with the imm crew in past 10 years? Was he the favorite of Nep/Baer cheat crew? Oh I guess it was him, then strange that they didn't give him the second legacy on his assassin before level 30.

Jalim does have OOC connections to some of the previous Immortals.

As far as Nep/Baer and OOC connections, I can hardly comment though from what I do know, I would have more likely expected the opposite than for him to be getting handed favors from them. IIRC, he *did* have a ton of Baer-paladins, and got rather standard treatment/rewards as other Baer characters not played by him did.

The assassin being referred to is this -

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=4&topic_id=126963&mesg_id=126963&page=

Which, his Imm comments don't really detail too specifically, but apparently it was a global mini-quest that anyone could have gotten the final prize. Was that one perhaps heavy vs light? Yeah, sure. Even Umiron states it, but he also rewarded a bit heavier in the sense to help a cabal in general that had...about two people at the time.

In all honesty, I generally want to strangle Jalim about every third character he plays for some reason or another, however -

When all's said and done, he generally plays RP'd characters that also interact and attempt to be involved, and that tends to garner him notice and often rewards. On the flip side, his characters also tend to push limits at times, which also garners him attention (and at times repercussions, which his characters don't tend to take as well).

YOu remind me the good guy, who speaks for the bad guy. They ####ed themselfs, all of us see it, if you want to continue, its now your problem.

Good luck, bro.

Obligatory self-promotion :)

I need to make it clear for others.

They said, they are clean.

They said, edges are too op.

They said, they hate Op pk.

Then the leader of them, gave the most OP legacy in most OP situation, to 21 level pk ass. to 21 pk OOC well known cheater.

After that, that person, should shut the #### up (sorry girls, if it was harsh, wait, no), or demote himself from the imp status. He cheated, he got caught, he should go away from somebody who decide - what is right and what is wrong. Simply.

doesn't make it cheating
doesn't make them a poor imp

Because someone disagrees with your doesn't invalidate their point. The only part of you lately that wants to be involved is whatever part of you holds stupid grudges and wants everyone to point their fingers with you and yell Cheater!!!! Like kids in a schoolyard. If you don't like how cf is going, and haven't for years, then go elsewhere. It's really simple. Find something else to do. Dark souls is awesome. Try it out.

I had quite a few Imm buddies, how do you think I knew of and constantly complained about the rampant cheating and #### of Nep and Baer and how they alienated so many good Imms who left. I didn't realize it was going to cause this kind of blow up posting the help file, but I guess some things never change. Information wants to be free...

rithorical statement about where you got those helpfiles. Sure, from past or current imms. ;)

*IF* this character who got the legacy turned out to have been played by someone who wasn't Jalim, would it still be considered a problem?

Lets use the guy who played Balgrum as an example, mostly because he seems to be a fairly new guy that the player base seems to be in favor of. If he had ended up being rewarded with a legacy on an assassin, would anyone actually care?

nt

iF that guy was Jalim - and he WAS THE JALIM.

If ( and now its a thin line, but #### it) You are the Imm who was PROMOTED by NEPEBAER crew, you words also means nothing.

You can continue to push some lines, ask strange questions, but..wait..Who did promote you? Who? End of Story.

Now you can go, and continue to act in their shady ####ing way, (we both know what I am speaking about), But know, karma is a bitch.

and read the question. Do you only care because Jalim got the reward or because you think the reward itself is bogus?

I am also still curious why you have this perception that Nep and Baer are the ones who "promoted" me along the way. Honestly, I think its pretty fair to say that I butted heads with Baer more than most.

I suppose this is all irrelevant really because this thread doesn't even exist anymore:

http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?2,1087944,1087944#msg-1087944

You were, my friend, promoted by cheating crew, and this true. Do you like it or not, you still working with them. And this is why, your decisions are somewhat makes sense to me. And now, they make sense to others.

You pointed at that thread, and you got ####ed, do you know why? Simple, you still care, who promoted you.

The other thing, that I don't a bit understand, what kind of thing Umi was asked to do before he got IMP. I mean, they made him an imp and asked him to do some things for thier friends, now its clear. I think he should stop to be a good cop, and say, I had the deal, I'm ####ed, but I have my own view on things. Trust me, it will help.

Nep hates my guts.

Baer tolerates me following her religions because I'm really good at them.

Destuvius and I have a love/hate relationship on forums and occasional email when I bitch about Empire changes.

But you're saying Umiron was somehow coerced by Baer/Nep to give me a legacy after they had both been gone from the game for over a year?

You realize Umiron's general impression of me is that I'm a huge asshole IC and on forums right?

I can contribute to discussions occasionally but in general regarding this game I just don't have a lot of patience or the tolerance I once had with various things and I'm pretty sure it shines through regularly and my forum/IC persona gets tarnished more often than not.

I don't really care is the thing because this is a text based mud on the internet and it isn't worth getting upset or frustrated over like it used to be when it was something I really cared about. Long story short you're being crazy.

But yeah, you're similar to a JMC.

You get rewards on a lot of your characters, but you put forth a lot of effort (in the role, in the RP, etc) on those characters.

I don't think you've ever had a rewarded character that flat out sucked*. Maybe 1 or 2, but yeah.

*Just because some of your characters make me want to find you IRL and punch you in the face doesn't mean they aren't relatively well played.

Edited to add: No one's called me an IMM favorite for a while, yet for a 2 year period I won 4 role contests and got a ####ton of IMM xp with each character I played.

Hey man. Long time no post. I take breaks at work by reading up on the two forums and recently I've been wondering a bit about you. I think it's fair to say no one - really, no one - has more reason to distrust and be mad at the staff than I do. It's why I stopped playing. As far as I know I'm the only player the staff ever admitting to falsifying information in a player's character's pfile, screwing the character over. Really, I'm just about the biggest "the staff really sucks" guy CF has ever had.

Keep that in mind when I say: you gotta tone it down, my friend. Your posts recently have not just been way out of bounds on a basic civility level, but they've also often been illogical, totally assumption-based, and, from time to time, simply wrong. And when I say wrong I mean wrong because you are saying you know what someone else has done even when that other person is saying otherwise. You don't need to be a lawyer to know that someone else is going to know their own motivations better than someone who doesn't, you know, share their brain.

So there you go. I've got zero skin in this game, I don't even know who most of these imms posting are anymore other than seeing them on posts, but the reality is you have gone so far that it wouldn't really matter whether you were right, nobody is going to listen or be persuaded by the crazy ranting psycho. I know, I do this for a living and I see it in briefs and in court on a regular basis.

Take it or leave it. Good luck either way.

Graatch out.

Thanks for the answers. I'm not a fan of Obs/Exp XP for edges, so I think it's good that you dropped it. But, we'll have to disagree about the availability of edges. It does not feel like there are enough ways to get enough edge points.

As an example, I can easily imagine an average muter age dying with the only "spin the Wheel" on his edge list with the current methods for EPs. That doesn't sound fun.

Obviously, an IMM either copied help files and distributed them to their friend(s) who then posted it on Dio's, or an IMM posted on Dio's, breaking the post rule and the leak rule.

This is an IMM problem. It's also why the "you cannot post on Dio's" rule made no sense to me when I you told me about it: it is unenforceable.

What happened was at some point the system for not allowing mortals to read certain help files was buggy. Someone ended up noticing this and brute forced all of the help files. The interesting ones were posted to FSV. These included the brute force observation and enchanter helpfiles.

nt

Maybe start a private forum?
Share this kind of information in IRC channels?

I thought openly looking to minimize the idiotic aspects of the game was a viable solution when those aspects are repetitive and time consuming.

I'm glad someone finally recognized this, realized that players were circumventing the most frustrating part of the game by far with scripts, and removed it entirety.