Moving this topic over here because it makes more sense on this board.

So I think one of the most logical adjustments to stay in line with not manacling animals would be to also make it so that the sequester effect of manacles prevents all forms of shapeshifting as well. After sequester wears off, you could still have shapeshifting be penalized similar to how regular spells are cast.

Assuming they do manage to successfully shapeshift, they then lose the manacles affect. The big trade off here is that it opens up said shifter (or druid using shapeforms) to being re-manacled (and thereby re-sequestered) if they attempt to revert to talk/word/etc.

The other fun secondary effect that could occur from this would be to allow a shapeshifter whom has selected the contorting metamorphosis the ability to shapeshift out of manacles with no penalty, and even doso at a reduced chance while sequestered.

Having manacles work as cripple effect for the sake of shapeshifting would be really cool, like you shapeshift, get your *** DEMOLISH *** and oila - you're free of manacles.

Shapeshifting escape artist. Some sort of edge may be attributed to this as well, for habitual shapeshifter outlaws?

Giants and shapeshifters are immune to manacles and that is that.

Would be fun. As well as enlarge spell to remove insects :)

All these echoes, especially HTH assassinate, clearly assume a humanoid victim. Internal Logic FTW!

I'm okay with a sense of realism, but I also feel like it should be feasible to shackle any form with arms/legs/wings. A bird's "wrist" would more or less be the end of the front of the wing, and I honestly think shackles should more or less ruin any non-insect air form's day. (Birds flying with wings shackled? Ew. Flying mantis or wasp? They'd be fine)

So anyways, my vote would be if it has arms, legs, or wings, it can be manacled/shackled. If it's possible to somehow specify the bird forms, they should risk not being able to fly at all.

Not that snakes need a huge boost (yay dodgy regen forms), but that's what is sensible to me. Now anyone ever going to stick my anaconda back in the regular form rolls? *mutter*

Hopefully neither of us die on this hill though.

Most forms manacles already did not work on as memory serves. So this really affects forms with arms (Not that I think shackling a bear would be easy by any means). That is unless something changed at some point that gave forms a lot more arms, or a couple arms to a lot more forms.

I like this idea. However, I wouldn't say sequester should entirely prevent shapeshifting, but I think it should prevent flyto and fly skills for air shifters.

Also, with your idea about losing the manacles, if you do a successful shapeshift, you should probably take damage from breaking out of them.

Also liked your final idea.

A lot of stuff in cf would ridiculously hard in RL. The idea of shackling a bear is easy if you remember...

manacles is a power you can only initiate with.

That means you are somehow calculating a way to manacle. It's not happening in the flyby phase of combat.

For the condor, you could be digging it into their flesh/wings to stick or where their wing span starts. maybe even with a dagger/or sharp object on hand! I don't know. You are utilizing the time before engaging combat to devise a method to shackle them somehow with this piece of weaponry.

Perhaps the phrase needs to be changed yes...

"The tribunal devises a method to place manacles upon you!"

Scara might make it so you have to carry specific manacles for each of the forms. So when you're running around in Trib at some point with 300+ lbs of all the manacles for each of the races and forms do not say I didn't warn you. :P

A clamp with spikes that pierce into any form, race, whatever.

Give them the clamp!

Why are we nerfing the only real power the tribunal has.


Change the power to 'justice's weight' and call it a day. You shroud them in the cloak of prosecution.

Vindicator gets 'bloodied shroud of justice'.


Or we can have it be a giant clamp. Like a bear trap that you wind and unleash on them. You can stick it on a doe's tail if you want. A single leg. Maybe a morphed giant lip.

Only the three Outlander leaders get insects, but all tribs get sequester, which is more or less the same. You also have a safe zone as opposed to anyone else. Even if your build can't compete with some Outlander running around Galadon at all or just need a small rest, you can always hide in the Paladin guild or the spire and there's next to nothing they can effectively do. Plus you get detect hidden, which is huge and combined with the safe zone aspect, makes you more or less unkillable if you don't want to fight.

Not being able to place manacles on shifters is somewhat balanced by the said shifter not being able to insect you since it can only be done out of form. That point is not nearly as important as the above Trib advantages though. There's a reason Delaed was a trib, for an easy example of utilizing powergamer Trib aspects.

I am a habitual outlanderer, but I've also played a few Tribs just to see their side. As a whole, outlander powers are better.

Sequester doesn't last long.
Manacles can only be done within your limited jurisdiction.
Manacles do not cause (minor) damage
Manacles do not prevent you from resting or hiding once you leave town.

The balance to this is that insects are a leader power, not an outlander power.