Spending 40 hours in game in two weeks with multiple notes, prays, and emails without getting a response as to _when_ an in game meeting can occur does not mean "available evenings." It means Dormant, or at best, limited availability.

Please update the wizlist to reflect the actual availability of immortals a bit more often, so would-be empowerees in the future don't waste an entire work week worth of time looking for someone that just isn't available. Luck just shouldn't be a factor after a certain point.

Alternatively, in an attempt to constructively add to a solution, perhaps add a process whereby an empoweree can get empowered through some kind of offline roleplay method - either by email or perhaps note in the event an immortal simply can't commit to a login time.

Thanks.

Apart from the rather specific situation here, empowerment has always been a source of frustration, sometimes justified, sometimes not. I, too, have been in that situation; and it has led to as much deletions as it has to successes. In my situation specifically, it's European play times that has caused me to stop the empowerment process.

With trends like less players, less imms, less average play time per player, etc. a need arose to change certain mechanics (and we saw the introduction of exp bonuses at certain times, a scaled xp bonus per total players, and not so long ago the introduction of mercs as group members, etc). I have always seen and experienced great efforts to keep the game fun. Empowerment however, or the process of empowerment, hasn't changed much over the years. Empowerment has been, and should be, a decision of the Imm that is being followed within the Sphere; I don't think the empowerment process should be totally automated - but isn't it possible to introduce some more automated first steps?

More specifically, I am thinking in the direction of the pledge-squire-maran process in the Fort for instance (there are other similar cases out there) - in the sense that it is a staged process, with the first stage(s?) more easily accessible. Person X goes to pray to immortal A, timer starts running (the timer itself should probably be in-game based to avoid having people start the timer and then only log on until that time has passed), after a certain period and still no answer/reaction, immortal B takes over temporarily and gives person X a small quest (which Immortal A has approved beforehand). With the completion of said quest, person X receives a first empowerment (say till level 30). Those quests are picked from a list that has been drawn up by Imm A beforehand.

Oh, and yes, I do find myself in a similar situation as the original poster - I do understand the frustrations, as I have had those before, myself.

is so very unproportional currently, specially on hero. So judging by the sheer numbers, the situation is totally fine.

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Desty is amazing. Having a rough go starting off is not uncommon. Rp & patience. I waited for mynawk w a shaman for well beyond a month & 100 hours once. Keep the Rp and I strongly recommend Rp in the shrine. Interact w one of the mobs. Even if they don't have time to see & chat with you they will perhaps see that. Or another imm might help out a bit. Empowerment is amazing and sets you up for hundreds of hours. Take your time.

It has been typical from my experience there are often a few weeks or even more between interactions, but it also felt to me like he appreciated the patience and was willing to give out rewards based on that (Last Names, Empowerment Boosts and second Shaman Path, Tattoo, Titles)more quickly than some other imms based on that and perhaps off of more limited observations, or the observations of others, plus tasks completion of course. So the first 50 or so hours might be slower than I'd like, and I might be running with one path longer than I'd like, but by 200-300 hours I was usually far beyond where I expected to be.

I've had failed experiments reaching 100+ hours before with 0 interactions. Having got that off my chest I should also add that I was extremely impressed with Destuvius when I followed him as Auudreyz. He puts a LOT of time into each follower and really helps you flesh out your character and was always very supportive. Yes it can be hard to match up with him (or any empowerer) but that's the system we have in place. Just gotta have patience. Desty is great and I'd follow him again if I ever wanted to go down the empowerment path.

First of all, you are SUPER needy. Second of all, you are not quite accurate with windows of time.

You created on June 13th and also emailed me the first time on June 15th, stating that you had been looking for me for 3 or 4 days that that point. I responded to your first email on the 18th, explaining to you that I do not have the ability to set up an appointment for you and even was kind enough to explain to you the reasons why. I even explained to you that it was going to be a hard go because of your lack of role and your power leveling.

You then emailed me 4 more times on the 18th. I attempted to respond as well as possible to them, giving you as much information as possible and again telling you that there seemed to be a disconnect between how you wanted to play and how I handle empowerment. You still decided you wanted to continue.

You then emailed me again on the 20th. And you emailed me again on the 21st.

So here we are, 9 days after your creation and your character having 42 hrs logged. You have emailed me 7 times in this span even after in the first email that I responded to you stating that I cannot schedule a time for you and that I have been trying to get you when I am on.

The irony of this all is that you were actually going to get free empowerment for sticking it out despite me not being able to actually cross paths with you. However instead of logging in to try your luck, you brought it here. Congratulations on shooting yourself in the foot.

I didn't name names, or call you out. I was speaking in general, and for the benefit of the players that may want to actually have an empowerment character. I didn't realize you were the only one that had that specifically availability, or I would have taken more care to make it anon.

I admitted to being super needy, only because what the heck else am I supposed to do? I NEEDED to be needy, I was getting nowhere fast after WAY too many hours. Whatever righteousness you are feeling by taking your ball and going home isn't fair, or called for. Frankly "Free Empowerment" is a hyperbole - I paid for it fully with 42 hours of playing a complete dead end character. As for the leveling - what else am I supposed to do.. not play the game? Should I roll another character while waiting for you to connect with me? That is completely insane and counter-intuitive. Play the game, but don't play, because then that's weird when I don't empower you. Really? What?

I never said anything mean, or vindictive, or even accusatory. I didn't bring any poison to this conversation, I'm not sure why you did.

As for the character, the well was already poisoned... and there was already too much anger at the process taking this long that continuing that character couldn't possibly be enjoyable. I couldn't roleplay a devout follower of the immortal that couldn't be bothered.

And Bud, I totally understood your reasons in your email. I was very supportive of them. The only thing I asked for was a "window" of time that I could login to look for you - so I didn't spend hour after hour just praying over and over again.

That's all I asked for. A window. Instead you just didn't bother to respond. Also, the four emails in one day is a bit misleading. One of them is wishing you a happy fathers day. I mean, jeez.

Thanks for your response.

P.S. One last thing - Why is a character being punished in character, for something brought up for the benefit of the playerbase out of character and anon? That just doesn't seem right. Kinda crappy actually.

Until someone else posts. :)

I've had chars go without empowerment or acknowledgement for way longer than 42 hours. It's the reality of life that sometimes your IMM goes dormant or you just can't catch a break with someone. I've had 150 hours of a char over a month or two carrying something my IMM asked for that I couldn't give back because of him never being on at the same time as I. I've deleted empowerment chars because of being unable to find my IMM. Many a time I'd be praying to an IMM for 100+ hours, never getting anything back to show for it. Empowerment and immteraction is always a gamble IMHO. If you choose to roll an empowerment class, don't go over 20. Stop and RP with people. Try to spread your religion around, try to engage people, talk to them, etc. I've had "pity" empowerment from what I think wasn't my IMM that way. In addition, you're still playing out your char, fleshing him out, etc. I feel that even if you're ultimately unsuccessful (for example as I was on a 400+ hour char) in your goals, but you made good effort, that's still a win. Try to have fun understanding you'll never get everything you want. Maybe the priest classes are simply not for you? GLWYN!

The days of spending 150 hours on a character that can't do #### are over. Hell, we have leaders of cabals deleting in 150 hours. TO be sitting on a char that's unempowered that long is insane. This isn't 1995 anymore.

He who gets frustrated is doing it wrong, whatever the circumstances. The game is supposed to be fun, so don't engage in something not fun, just don't.

>The days of spending 150 hours on a character that can't do
>#### are over. Hell, we have leaders of cabals deleting in 150
>hours. TO be sitting on a char that's unempowered that long is
>insane. This isn't 1995 anymore.
>

This. Very much this. CF doesn't have the playerbase anymore to really justify keeping someone waiting for that long, people are already getting bored and deleting like it's nothing because there's no real investment. You can say that "You should just RP" but that ain't easy when there's only a handful of people on. I'd love to be able to play a healer, since those were always my favorite support class, but I don't really have the patience for empowerment anymore, nor do I feel like most of the IMMs mesh well with my style of play.

You are binge CFing, the risk of doing that is most other people are not, including staff.


In the future I recommend not tethering your character to people who likely play much less than you. Whether it's empowerment, cabal induction, or some sort of goofy quest.

Dest apparently set you straight through private communication. What was the point of coming here? Trying to apply lateral pressure? Declaring woe is me behind the smoke screen of trying to benefit others?

Trying to bite the hand that feeds by and large results in getting put down.

40 hours in two weeks and you "needed to be needy"?

That's some watershifter attitude, not that of a shaman.

This has nothing to do with the character that I haven't met yet IC. You, as a player, were going to be given free empowerment for 0 IC interactions because you were sticking it out and putting in the effort. You, as a player, are not getting said free empowerment anymore because you, as a player, brought a whole sad sock drama story to the forums for no good reason.

If you, as a character, still intend to try and have an IC dialogue and all that fun stuff then go nuts. You, as a character, will not be treated any differently than another character by IC Destuvius.

I've had a Corrlaan(SP?) paladin as soon as he vanished the first time. I had a Destuvius paladin where RL got ahold of him in the middle of my character progression. #### happens. Stick it out, unless you lose investment in that character for a your own reasons.

Destuvius was still one of my favorite empowerment paths, especially as a Paladin. He is awesome, and always has the player in mind throughout it all. Interactions are top notch, even when limited.

This sounds alot like you feel entitles, and that just isn't the case. NO one is entitled to anything. This is a game, for fun, not a job. No one, including imms, is required to put in a certain amount of times.

nt

Out of curiosity, did you even look to see what my availability is on the wizlist? Because it pretty much is spot on for when I am available.

I don't want to drag this out. That wasn't the point of this.

I asked via email for a window of time where we could meet. You couldn't provide one, and stated various reasons which I won't post here.

This forum post comes after 2 days of praying during your 'availability' for, at a minimum, six solid hours of shrine sitting.

You don't have to show up, that's fine. The whole point of this post was to request that the wizlist be updated to reflect the current realities of empowering imms so an already thinning herd of players doesn't become frustrated with completely wasting their time. Or alternatively, offering a offline empowerment process for imms who ARE so busy they cannot login.

Really, that's it.

Thanks. And for what its worth, I'm sorry this turned out to be such a ####show. It was never about you, or even me, actually. Decima was on the chopping block before I made the post.

Really? Two days is a reason to update wizlist?

*gasps in astonishment*

It was the last two days, after several emails and notes, after a 10 day period, over 42 hours.

The last two days refers to specifically the time since Dest last responded to any email requesting at least a window of time upon which he MIGHT be online, the last two days of the character before the forum post.

The point stands. The problem is you being able to sink 6 hours a day on game, so you judge others based on your perception of character time.

Most immortals don't play that much. Most players don't.

For example I play like 10 hours a week, and the first month of my character's life - I typically am still below level 20 and consider "oh I've just created it".

I'm quite sure most imms get similar perception about the game. One week is too short of a span to judge anything, and two days is nothing - you can have busy days at work, weekend trip or whatever and may not log in at all. And then at the third day you come to forum and read "Update wizlist!" kind of post.

Your stance about this is hilarious at best, really.

nt

NT

It may be just me, or just me being drunk, but i hate all those shrine sitters.

C'mon just go pk/rp/whatever while you wait for your god. I had bad expeirence as well - played for about 70-90 hours waiting for Baerinika only to read on this forum later that she didn't log in in a long time.

But sitting in the shrine for six hours ????!!!!!

In general, she had a more beneficial view of empowerment as a whole. Maybe you should talk to her about it.

nt

Ba da tst

Like how certain followers of hers are required to get a pk on a class that consists of 5% of the population, much less finding one in your pk? Every Immortal is different, and has their own process. Sometimes it works for some people, sometimes it works for others. At least you have the option of following Immortals that you may work better with, versus all Immortals being the same and if you don't work that way, you're screwed.

For my Amaranthe character, this consisted of about 2-3wks real time of being hero, w/ lvl 40 empowerment and 60hrs playtime on a limited time (seasonal) race.

Was it frustrating not finding the required PK? Yes. Did I ever have a complaint? No. I made the character to play the character, and challenge can be part of the game. I think most Immortals attempt to accommodate as much as they can. Also, keep in mind that offline empowerment is not something every Immortal can do.

..that she feels Empowerment should be easier than it is and will empower people offline via email based on role.

You saying 'certain followers' is a little misleading. If you have a death based I'ma pk everyone role sure you might have to prove yourself.

You don't always have to circle the wagons when people are making good points about real issues.

no?

Gr

>..that she feels Empowerment should be easier than it is and
>will empower people offline via email based on role.

Again, Amaranthe happens to be a high enough level Immortal that she can do so. Most Immortals don't have that option. Honestly, aside from lining up with an Immortal, I don't think I've seen anyone lately who doesn't empower rather easily aside from priests who grossly misinterpret a religion.

>You saying 'certain followers' is a little misleading. If you
>have a death based I'ma pk everyone role sure you might have
>to prove yourself.

No, it's not. "Certain followers" meaning an entire portion of her religion, based on very basic factors of a character that would apply whether you have zero role, or role contest winning. I could be more specific, but it's Amaranthe's religion, and I'd rather not detail out portions that were learned in-character. That's her playground.

>You don't always have to circle the wagons when people are
>making good points about real issues.

True, but when I am in agreement with Destuvius and have relevant information to the topic, I'm going to state it. As far as circling the wagons...you might see my agreement, but you're generally not going to see things where Immortal A posts one thing, and Immortal B comes in to undercut A. If something along those lines comes up, it generally gets addressed internally so that everyone's on the same page.

As an example, Scarabaeus' recent manacles change - bug was posted, he addressed the immediate bug, which then became a gameplay concern. I immediately had my own opinion, but I wasn't going to jump in saying I thought it should be done A, and have Drehir say B, and Aarn say C. It just confuses people. Instead, we have a discussion first, then are able to post the consensus. Since Destuvius posted to have player input, I moved my opinion there for debate. Sadly, Kstatida and CD gave opinions, and otherwise there's been more Immortal comments than mortal otherwise.

Overall, we're perfectly willing to try to address player's concerns about issues, but we're also talking about a topic that tends to be dead-horse in its issues, and most often comes up with characters that binge on hours. This one in particular powered to lvl 40 in two days and 16 hours, then spent a week doing nothing but looking for empowerment. Whenever you rush up in level w/o empowerment, you put yourself in a bind because your PK range is significantly stronger than it would otherwise be for you, and players tend to do little beyond shrine-sitting, which makes it hard to get a grasp on said character.

When it's the same vocal minority bringing up the same issues, it tends to evoke less response/interaction.

The only person on the wizlist i saw with a quick once over who said available evenings is Emnon. I actually got an email from him earlier today about his availability being limited in the future, not that it helps much there.

That all being said, only Scarabaeus or the imm themselves have the ability to change their status. And if someone doesn't have the time to respond to emails and such they probably aren't logging jn anyways, so they wont be updating their wizlist stuff.

If this whole rant is directed at a different immortal then I don't know what else to tell you.

*Edit: Just saw that Aarn also has that listed as an availability. Are you perhaps not lining up time zones correctly?

Is it possible to have IMMs auto-moved from active to dormant if they don't meet a minimum requirement of hours/month? Think of it as anti-hoarding code but for the wizlist. (This might already be the case, I have no clue).