I'm in :) maybe in another form (without forcing low-level players to hunt newbies). Let's see what *players* want?

Thanks everyone for the input. I thought players are unhappy with it, but now I see that most of them are glad that CF becomes less PK-rewarding. I think it's good for most of the players and bad for me (as I said before, with the raise of RP standarts my ability to RP becomes absolutely sad). But I guess I just have to live with it. So for me this question is closed, sorry for bringing it back (I've mixed time when it happened and didn't participate in previous discussion).

I still think the explore/observe mechanic needs fixing though. And I wish I could pick more edges :(

nt

I only realised this when I started farming observation in skyrim by reflex.

It's secret sauce (I don't know how to do it and I've tried) and it pulls you away from the social parts of the game (RP PK cabalwars etc).

Requiring players to go through a repetitive grind which requires insider knowledge (it's not intuitive or consistent in how it's rewarded. A single ship in hamsah docks gives more than the abandoned siege camp. The most remote secret difficult parts of the ability lair give nothing at all. If you hero before you goon to trothon, 0 explore. ) the keep up with eachother other is sick and wrong.

Sure, you can rank as a group but you can also farm observation as a group. And it's not like ranking actually helps social interaction -- you are typically too busy grinding mobs. Whereas when you go sightseeing as a group, you typically talk and it facilitates expressing your character's opinion on the things you see.

Also, farming observation to the limit is trivial and no more difficult than reaching hero rank. And I know I keep looking at things even after I reach the cap, and bring people around on explore trips. It's fun when you put it into perspective.

Rank limits to exploration aren't very intuitive, though, I could do with them being abolished.

Also, when edge bonuses for observation were made 1/3000, I suggested that the obs-exp cap be halved instead, with bonuses staying 1/1500. The maximum effect would be the same, but less of a "grind" for those who don't like doing it.

"Sure, you can rank as a group but you can also farm observation as a group. And it's not like ranking actually helps social interaction -- you are typically too busy grinding mobs. Whereas when you go sightseeing as a group, you typically talk and it facilitates expressing your character's opinion on the things you see."

My experience is the opposite. Observing in a group means rushing through with one guy calling out keywords giving you no chance to actually read descriptions on the one occassion you're doing it for the first time, whereas if I regularly group with someone I feel like it's a bonding experience.

"Also, farming observation to the limit is trivial and no more difficult than reaching hero rank. And I know I keep looking at things even after I reach the cap, and bring people around on explore trips. It's fun when you put it into perspective."

It usually takes me over 300 hours to hit the observe cap. It usually takes me less than 300 hours to con die. I've never come close to the explore cap and recent experiences suggest it wouldn't even be possible for a character who didn't take time out to go exploring prior to reaching hero.

"Also, when edge bonuses for observation were made 1/3000, I suggested that the obs-exp cap be halved instead, with bonuses staying 1/1500. The maximum effect would be the same, but less of a "grind" for those who don't like doing it."

This would mitigate the problem.

Also, I want to say that I *like* exploring, and looking at things, finding hidden keywords in room descriptions etc. What I don't like is being *forced* to do non-exploring (it's not exploring if I already know the area by heart) and non-observing in order to be competitive in PK.

"Observing in a group means rushing through with one guy calling out keywords giving you no chance to actually read descriptions on the one occassion you're doing it for the first time, whereas if I regularly group with someone I feel like it's a bonding experience."

I'm typically that "one guy", but I give people time to read descriptions and often try to spark a conversation. But I find it almost impossible to maintain a conversation while ranking because then my focus invariably slips and someone mob dies.

What observation COULD use is more transparency, like that where you get a "you glean some knowledge" echo when you look at clues.

Echos that tell you that you are observing something worth exp,
My 2 cents added.

The echos could be...

If you succeed, it echos, 'This observation garners insight'.
If you are not high enough it echos, 'This observation still confounds you'.
If you are too high in level it echos, 'This observation would have been profound in when you were less experienced'.

If you succeed in exploring, 'This exploration has merit.'
If you are not high enough, 'This dangers place holds no merit for you.'
If you are too high in level, 'This place trivial to you.'

Well anyway that's an idea... It would help to reinforce what knowledge you learn. So that after you have truly explored for the first time you can benefit from it later... I wouldn't expect a vets to spend countless hours looking over the same things character after character. That's illogical.

Just my thoughts.

P_N

Incentivized non-assholes to be assholes to keep up with the assholes. The assholes were going to be assholes anyhow, so why give assholes ####?

n/t

I got sick of the "Hey, Player Assbag is in the realms. Let us leave the Vale and return to our studies" because the SOB got decked up and ravaged every group/solo he could find, every single log-in.

Just for edge points.

Midlevels are swarming with levelsitting PKers, ppl still quit on their logins a lot.

So why not give edge points for PK on 47+? Or limited amount on 30+?

Granted, they cut off the whole arm because of a broken nail, Dwarf Fortress style. But it is done.

Complaining about nerfs will only bring more nerfs. Stop.

I really thought players think different, and I'm surprised to see so many 'no'. This helps me to understand the current meta/mood of CF.

Neutral mages being ganked down by a Marshall on the streets of Voralian City shouldn't happen. I'm betting without PK edge points it wouldn't have.

I am currently addicted to rolling new chars and then deleting them at around 20/30.

So I've basically lived in the low range pk scenario since I cameback. And I have noticed a huge difference in asshole pk behavior, since the change to pk/edges.

I don't mind getting pked. But what I don't like is getting pked either without any rp reason whatsoever, and/or being pked by the same guy over and over.

-Jae

It was a good change.

NT

That

n/t

This all comes down to being happy with what you have. Edges are great and helpful but they aren't my source of happiness in the game.

My source of happiness with the game is killing ppl. Incentivizing them try to kill me increases my chances of killing them. So I vote yes :)

As much as not incentivizing them to do anything except try to kill you

As my fun is with PK. I'm being egoistic here of course, but that's what democracy is about, votes of egoists so that we peacefully decide which side is more numerous.

Pick the best ones.

Have you taken a look at any of the chars on the premium battlefield?

They are stacked with edges. Around 8 or so, 5 at least. Unless they had like less than 100 hours in.

-J

I still go into every character in anticipation of 2 edges. Anything more is a bonus.

Has like 5 or 6 of the most expensive edges, without PK edge points. I don't know how that happened, he's nothing spectacular. Compared to my edges with Gromm, I'm somewhat surprised myself.

Don't reinstate the by-level edge points, and do away with the by-level exploration/observation edge points. Remove max level caps by area for exploring.

It's not that we need an incentive to PK each other, it's just that with things as they are if you're playing a class with a make or break edge and want to PK effectively you're forced to grind observation/exploration; i.e. you're incentivised to not participate and not interact in favour of doing grindy stuff.

There should also be no mechanical incentives to levelsit. it just delays participation and promotes boredom.