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Forum Name Gameplay
Topic subjectSvs / svp / svm
Topic URLhttps://forums.carrionfields.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=6&topic_id=62884
62884, Svs / svp / svm
Posted by Demos on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Any chance we could get a bit of detail as to the difference between each?

I know you cant list which skills or spells are affected by each, but is there a way to shed some light on how each works?

This came up on newbie and I don't recall ever seeing it addressed here.
62887, Some clarification by Daev:
Posted by Calion on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=5&topic_id=4368&mesg_id=4369&page=2
62888, RE: Some clarification by Daev:
Posted by Demos on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
I feel like this is a bit out of date. Since the shaman revamp I've found morale & svm far more valuable vs bard/tranny. YMMV of course. I feel like jormyrs view is closer now to fact. Regarding mental saves and tranny in particular. Jolt I don't know but neuro certainly isn't the bees knees if you're geared for svm
62886, RE: Svs / svp / svm
Posted by Jormyr on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
To start, I would refer to you HELP SAVES, as that gives a solid base
to begin from. Secondly, I would like to be clear that I am speaking
from merely my years of experience, with no specific knowledge of the
code more than any other person. Hence, I could be wrong in some
areas, but I've at least played under this understanding my whole CF
career.

Generally, SvS is your sort of catch-all "generic" protection.
Unless an ability is specifically written to use a different save,
this is what I assumed would help me. Hence, this tends to be the
save that is most often found in gear, and most heavily geared for.
One fact that's often not considered is that your wisdom has a (in my
experience) HUGE impact on your basic ability to make a save. A
gnome, or priestly human (23 wis) is going to survive with less
saves than an orc or giant.

Examples for things I assume use SvS:
Blindness, most direct damage spells, summon, maybe disrupt
flesh/organ/bone, metabolic slowing, etc.

Now, the other three saves (vs paralysis, breath, mental) always seem
to be more "special case", and in many cases you can straight ignore
these saves unless you expect to be going into a fight where it's
useful. At that point, you *really* want to try and have at least
minimal appropriate saves.

Save vs breath - By and large, these are "breath" attacks, which you
most often see when fighting dragons. I feel like there were a few
random exceptions, but I honestly can't recall what else it would be.

Save vs mental - Think anything that's trying to mess with your mind.
For the most part, this tends to be bards, some transmuter spells
(mental jolt, neurological disruption? - note brain stuff), and
*possibly* Breaker path shaman spells (I've no experience for
certain, but to me it would make sense for that to be a mental save).
Also, in addition to

Save vs paralysis - As far as I ever knew, this was pretty much just
stuff that "holds/freezes" you. Neurological disruption once again,
hold person, gaze from shifter form...I'd say "etc", but I don't
actually know of anything beyond that.

As a few random asides, particularly for a newbie I feel there's a
few other important points. Firstly, an ability COULD be written to
use anything under the sun for a saving throw. If I made up some
imaginary power, I could write it so that it used your charisma as
a check whether you save against someone, so there's always the
possibility of exceptions. One of the major groups of these are
poison/diseases. To the best of my knowledge, many of these will
use a check against your constitution for a save.

Got distracted and had to edit - Also, I *believe* there's some
situations where you either have multiple "levels" of saving, or
multiple save attempts. Wither would probably be the best example
I think for that. If you fail entirely to save, you get hit w/
-30str and lose years to your character. If you somewhat succeed,
you might get just -30str, or maybe -15 str, or maybe -5 str.
Another (possible?) one that might be in that situation could be
something like power word kill, where a total save insta-kills
you, a partial save does LOTS of damage, and a good save does less
damage. Again, these all come down to however the coder designed
the skill.

Anyways, this has gotten a bit long, but hopefully it helps you out
(and hopefully I'm not horribly wrong in my assumptions I've been
playing under, either).

*Edit to add about (maybe?) multiple saves.
62885, They work vs different things
Posted by incognito on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
My general rule of thumb is:
Svm is Psionic attacks like psychic vampires etc make. Also the attacks from a certain hell neckwear. Also vs most bard songs.

Svp is things that, well, paralyse you. Like neuro. I think it affects neuro duration.

Svs is most spells or supps that don't check the above saves or a specific stat instead. (For example plague is a con check.) so voker damage spells, muter spells, most ap spells etc.