This is a fight from today, but I do not want to reveal who plays me, and there is nowhere to post here anonymously, with current characters, so I post this here. Please accept my apology for using your forum as a gameplay substitute.

Does it seem strange that he hits me more than I hit him, in regular melee combat, meaning not including pummel? I asked and he has not practiced staff. I have practiced hand to hand to 80 I think. I checked score and my hit dam was 28/29 for the fight (higher before vital, but then a bit more after berserk, so average 29)
Check this out:

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 6479tnl> nod bul
You nod at Bulgrim.

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 6479tnl>
Bulgrim says 'If you insist, here goes'

<100%hp 100%m 100%mv 6479tnl>
Bulgrim weakens you with a blow to a vital area.
Bulgrim's blow to a vital area decimates you!
You yell 'Help! Bulgrim punched me!'
Bulgrim is in perfect health.

<94%hp 100%m 100%mv 6479tnl>
Bulgrim parries your pound.
Bulgrim dodges your pound.
You dodge Bulgrim's punch.
Bulgrim's punch EVISCERATES you!
Bulgrim is in perfect health.

<85%hp 100%m 100%mv 6479tnl> dirt
Your kicked dirt misses Bulgrim.
Bulgrim is in perfect health.

<86%hp 100%m 100%mv 6479tnl>
Your pound devastates Bulgrim!
Your pound maims Bulgrim!
Bulgrim's punch MUTILATES you!
You dodge Bulgrim's punch.
Bulgrim's punch EVISCERATES you!
Bulgrim has some small but disgusting cuts.

<68%hp 100%m 100%mv 6479tnl>
Bulgrim pummels you with his fists.
Bulgrim's pummeling blow devastates you!
Bulgrim's pummeling blow devastates you!
Bulgrim's pummeling blow devastates you!
Bulgrim has some small but disgusting cuts.

<50%hp 100%m 100%mv 6479tnl>
Bulgrim dodges your pound.
Bulgrim parries your pound.
Your pound devastates Bulgrim!
Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
Bulgrim has some small but disgusting cuts.

<50%hp 100%m 100%mv 6479tnl> ber
ber
Your pulse races as you are consumed by rage!
Bulgrim has some small but disgusting cuts.

<60%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl>
Your pound MUTILATES Bulgrim!
Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
You dodge Bulgrim's punch.
Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.

<60%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl> pugil
You get a little madder.
Bulgrim dodges your pound.
Bulgrim parries your pound.
Bulgrim's punch MUTILATES you!
You dodge Bulgrim's punch.
You dodge Bulgrim's punch.
Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.

<52%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl> You deliver a punishing pugil strike with your staff!
Your pugil strike MANGLES Bulgrim!
Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.

<52%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl>
Bulgrim uses the terrain to his advantage and evades your blow.
Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.

<52%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl>
Dworlin looks at you.
Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.

<52%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl>
Your blow swings wildly and misses.
Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.

<52%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl>
Bulgrim uses the terrain to his advantage and evades your blow.
Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.

<52%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl> pugil

Your blow swings wildly and misses.
Bulgrim parries your pound.
Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.

<52%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl> Bulgrim avoids your pugil strike.
Your pugil strike misses Bulgrim.
Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.

<52%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl>
Bulgrim parries your pound.
Bulgrim's punch MUTILATES you!
Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
You parry Bulgrim's punch.
Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.

<43%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl>
Bulgrim pummels you with his fists.
Bulgrim's pummeling blow devastates you!
Bulgrim's pummeling blow devastates you!
Bulgrim's pummeling blow devastates you!
Bulgrim's pummeling blow devastates you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
You are dazed by all the blows.
Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.

<19%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl> flee
flee
flee

Bulgrim dodges your pound.
Your pound EVISCERATES Bulgrim!
You dodge Bulgrim's punch.
You twist yourself around Bulgrim's punch.
Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
Bulgrim is gushing blood.

<19%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl> The Rabbit's Corner

south west]
A cloud giant bouncer floats through the Inn.
A man peers at a deck of cards and gives you a suggestive wink.
You flee from combat!

Just part of that whole h2h discussion....

It just seems that way. I've only had one cup of coffee so far, so forgive any errors, but by my counts here is the breakdown of your fight -

You had 14 total melee attacks, two others were evaded, so I won't count those. You landed 5 out of 14 for 35.7% hit ratio. He parried 5 attacks (same 35.7%) and dodged 3 attacks (21.4%).

On the other hand, He landed 5 out of 26 attacks for only 19.2%, you spun or parried 14 attacks for 53.8% and dodged 7 attacks (26.9%).

IMO, the fact that you have fewer hit points, were using a weapon he is resistant to, were using an easily parried weapon, and don't have dual wield claws is why this match up is one sided in the H2H specs advantage.

Lots of factors :
1. Is your spin perfected or in the high 90s?
2. Is his dex/str high that he can dodge/parry well?
3. Is your dex/str high that you can dodge/parry well?
4. Is he higher in ranks than you?
5. I can imagine h2h parrying or blocking well against a staff. But don't think they do 'that' well against a spear. I may be wrong. Staff is considered blunt, while spear is considered pierce.
6. Also, from 'martial arts' point of view, a person specializing in h2h fights better than one with a long weapon, if he can dodge well and come into close contact.
7. Is your enhanced damage in the high 90s?
8. Also from the logs, he seem to have resistant against blunt weapons. Or you are not dishing out damage well. See here :
Tip: Don't dirt kick a h2h specs, unless you mean to disarm him.
><85%hp 100%m 100%mv 6479tnl> dirt
>Your kicked dirt misses Bulgrim.
>Bulgrim is in perfect health.
>
><86%hp 100%m 100%mv 6479tnl>
>Your pound devastates Bulgrim!
>Your pound maims Bulgrim!
>Bulgrim's punch MUTILATES you!
>You dodge Bulgrim's punch.
>Bulgrim's punch EVISCERATES you!
>Bulgrim has some small but disgusting cuts.

Out damaging you.

9. Pummel took a lot of hps from you.
><68%hp 100%m 100%mv 6479tnl>
>Bulgrim pummels you with his fists.
>Bulgrim's pummeling blow devastates you!
>Bulgrim's pummeling blow devastates you!
>Bulgrim's pummeling blow devastates you!
>Bulgrim has some small but disgusting cuts.
>
><50%hp 100%m 100%mv 6479tnl>
>Bulgrim dodges your pound.
>Bulgrim parries your pound.
>Your pound devastates Bulgrim!
>Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
>Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
>Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
>Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
>Bulgrim has some small but disgusting cuts.

10. You missed a pugil. He didn't miss pummel. What if he had missed and you managed to pugil him?

11. Using different skills give different results. What if he had pummeled instead of evade?
><52%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl>
>Bulgrim uses the terrain to his advantage and evades your
>blow.
>Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.
>
><52%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl>
>Dworlin looks at you.
>Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.
>
><52%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl>
>Your blow swings wildly and misses.
>Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
>Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
>Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.
>
><52%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl>
>Bulgrim uses the terrain to his advantage and evades your
>blow.
>Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.
>
><52%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl> pugil
>
>Your blow swings wildly and misses.
>Bulgrim parries your pound.
>Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
>Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
>Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
>Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.
>
><52%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl> Bulgrim avoids your pugil strike.
>Your pugil strike misses Bulgrim.
>Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.

12. You are not a felar so you can't dual wield. Highly dependant on second and third attacks. He can with both hands and so he's throwing more punches than you can hit him. Again, this can affect the outcome.

13. Hidden stats like morale makes you fight worse? :P
><43%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl>
>Bulgrim pummels you with his fists.
>Bulgrim's pummeling blow devastates you!
>Bulgrim's pummeling blow devastates you!
>Bulgrim's pummeling blow devastates you!
>Bulgrim's pummeling blow devastates you!
>You sure are BLEEDING!
>You are dazed by all the blows.
>Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.

All in all, so many factors to consider. I'm sure others will come up more. I believe the IMPs have tested out many times before putting in the new h2h skills. This log alone does not give any imbalance to h2h.

Hope this analyzing helped you.

>Lots of factors :
>1. Is your spin perfected or in the high 90s?

Perfected.

>2. Is his dex/str high that he can dodge/parry well?

He's a storm giant, so high strength and low dex.

>3. Is your dex/str high that you can dodge/parry well?

Wood elf, so low strength and high dex. I can't speak for him but mine were maxed, and with vital at 2 less than max str.

>4. Is he higher in ranks than you?

We were one level apart, 25 and 26, so not really, no.

>5. I can imagine h2h parrying or blocking well against a
>staff. But don't think they do 'that' well against a spear. I
>may be wrong. Staff is considered blunt, while spear is
>considered pierce.

Why? In cf a blunt does just as much damage as a slash or cut or whatever else. There is no reason to assume more or less, for example, why not assume that parrying a blunt breaks his arms instead of just pinpricks or skidding points off armor that would come from a spear.

>6. Also, from 'martial arts' point of view, a person
>specializing in h2h fights better than one with a long weapon,
>if he can dodge well and come into close contact.

Except if the person with the long weapon is just as good, he has the advantage. That's the point of weapons in the first place right?

>7. Is your enhanced damage in the high 90s?

Perfected.

>8. Also from the logs, he seem to have resistant against blunt
>weapons. Or you are not dishing out damage well. See here :

He's a storm giant.

>9. Pummel took a lot of hps from you.
>><68%hp 100%m 100%mv 6479tnl>
>>Bulgrim pummels you with his fists.
>>Bulgrim's pummeling blow devastates you!
>>Bulgrim's pummeling blow devastates you!
>>Bulgrim's pummeling blow devastates you!
>>Bulgrim has some small but disgusting cuts.
>>
>><50%hp 100%m 100%mv 6479tnl>
>>Bulgrim dodges your pound.
>>Bulgrim parries your pound.
>>Your pound devastates Bulgrim!
>>Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
>>Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
>>Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
>>Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
>>Bulgrim has some small but disgusting cuts.
>
>10. You missed a pugil. He didn't miss pummel. What if he had
>missed and you managed to pugil him?

The point of my post was his defending against me as well as I defended against him, despite my wielding what is commonly considered one of if not the best defensive weapon, with a defensive spec skill (spin) in my favor. I specifically exempted the pummel and non-regular melee damage.

>
>11. Using different skills give different results. What if he
>had pummeled instead of evade?
>><52%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl>
>>Bulgrim uses the terrain to his advantage and evades your
>>blow.
>>Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.

Again, off topic. Here we're talking about regular melee fighting, not evade, which is an active defense.

>>
>><52%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl>
>>Dworlin looks at you.
>>Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.
>>
>><52%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl>
>>Your blow swings wildly and misses.
>>Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
>>Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
>>Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.
>>
>><52%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl>
>>Bulgrim uses the terrain to his advantage and evades your
>>blow.
>>Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.
>>
>><52%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl> pugil
>>
>>Your blow swings wildly and misses.
>>Bulgrim parries your pound.
>>Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
>>Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
>>Your defensive spin deflects Bulgrim's punch.
>>Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.
>>
>><52%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl> Bulgrim avoids your pugil strike.
>>Your pugil strike misses Bulgrim.
>>Bulgrim is covered with bleeding wounds.
>
>12. You are not a felar so you can't dual wield. Highly
>dependant on second and third attacks. He can with both hands
>and so he's throwing more punches than you can hit him. Again,
>this can affect the outcome.

But we are not talking about outcome the way you describe here. And you're right, I can't dual wield. Staff/spear specs forsake that in exchange for, among other things, a terrific defensive skill. Yet a h2h giant who (I'd bet the farm) has not perfected or come close to perfected ironhands or parry or dodge defends himself equally if not better than I defend against him.

>
>13. Hidden stats like morale makes you fight worse? :P
>><43%hp 90%m 89%mv 6479tnl>

My morale was moderate at the start and finish.

>All in all, so many factors to consider. I'm sure others will
>come up more. I believe the IMPs have tested out many times
>before putting in the new h2h skills. This log alone does not
>give any imbalance to h2h.
>
>Hope this analyzing helped you.

Perhaps now that you've seen the answers to your questions you'll understand why I question the ability of a h2h spec to defend himself as well as a staff wielding staff spec, who has perfected defenses, etc. Not that numbers mean everything, but they mean something. And regardless, wielding a weapon, if neither person does anything active (meaning not inputting commands), don't you think the advantage should go to the person wear a weapon as opposed to the person who is barehanded?

Duel with him again, using a spear. There outcome may turn out differently. Also he must have had more hitpoints than you. About the point that staff/spear are defensive, it does not make you untouchable. I thought you defended well, except those pummels hit you hard.

At the end of the log, I still cannot understand why you find it un-balanced. Compare swords and staff, you will get tooled with riposte. Compare daggers and staff, you will get tooled too with concealed. So I still don't understand your point. H2h is also another 'weapon' specialization.

If you don't land pummels, you aren't going to outdamage an out of form shifter - okay, that's an exaggeration, but the point still stands. Any warrior is going to parry a staff very, very, well.

AND you were maladicted by the vital area lowering your defensive capabilities. Pummel decided that fight.

So, uh...Do you have a point?

Yes, the point is that someone wielding a weapon should hit someone not wielding a weapon more than vice versa, especially when the person wielding a weapon is wielding arguably the most defensive weapon, with a defensive spec, in the game.

It appears very strange and doesn't make a whole lotta sense.

And the vital give only -str, most of which was not affecting me as I had +str equ. And at that level it's only a few -str, and certainly doesn't make that much of a difference to parrying/dodging/spinning.

Also, I specifically excluded pummel in my description.

He was like right in your grill? You wouldn't be able to swing your staff very good to hit him!

Aside all that, in my opinion, this fight doesn't prove a imbalance.

It's not about proving something. We aren't talking about a theorum wich some equation at the end. I have experienced something which seems strange, given the situation. I share this. Given that experience (and my other cf experience which is not inconsequential, but which I will not share here now because this is an active character) I post it in order to alert those that can do something about it, in the hopes it might be looked at and tweaked.