Imms, can you look into it? I think its a bit op.

1) Can you turn it down or just completly rework it?

2) Or just remove it and return edge poions for all assassins who took it if you don't have time now for rework?

It isn't nearly as OP as people make it out to be.

The more people bitch about assassins the more assassins there will be, the more powerful they will look because they're friggen everywhere killing people.

If 5 people rolled up duergar sword specs and started really dominating the ranges everyone would be doing the same complaining about the duergar race and how OP it is.

Trust me. ;) If imms don't want to remove it - I don't mind as well ;)

It makes throw work more often and you can throw more classes.

If the definition of OP is now 'slight increase in effectiveness of an ability' then yes, all edges are OP and by your logic should be removed.

DOWN WITH PREACHER EDGE AND OP NOTES

>It makes throw work more often and you can throw more
>classes.

As I've already said it is a combination of zero exp penalty *and* edges. In this particular case, throw has very little (nothing?) the opponent can do to mitigate your success. So in this case it is very similar to lash.

Throw is a powerful ability. First strengths:

Cannot be avoided without bash protection.
High(est?) damage for a lagging ability.
Can permalag.
Can trigger ground control which is even more damage + maledict.
Doesn't care about size differences (as far as I can tell).

Weakensses (without edge):
Cannot be used reliably against hand specs or other assassins.
Decent chance of failure (I'd guess ~75% reliable, on par with lash as a whip/flail spec).
Cannot be used to open combat.

The edge removes the first two weaknesses almost entirely and seems to increase the strength in damage and ground control categories. That's really... really good. Too good for a stealth class. I would probably take throw and ground control + edge over trip + cheapshot on any thug thief I'd play.

Throw doesn't work how you are suggesting with/without the edge.

You are exaggerating a lot to make your points seem more valid than they are.

.

Well, throw is trip lag, when you leave ground control out of the equation. So definitely not permalag.

.

And said throw by itself was perma lag. That was incorrect, as were other parts.

Just admit you were exaggerating to prove your point, thats all I was saying.

If you think the edge/skill is too powerful thats fine, but you don't have to make up stuff to prove your opinion is factual.

Or whatever. I said throw could permalag not because I was trying to dupe people into believing that (what would be the purpose?) but because I conflated throw and ground control for that. You'll notice I didn't mention lag on the ground control line. Honestly it isn't like throw and ground control are 20 levels apart, they are 7 and it is all there by 25. So it isn't like you are going to fight a ton of assassins that have throw but not ground control.

Which other parts are incorrect? Which parts exactly? You continue to offer nothing in support of your opinion.

I'm not exaggerating to prove my point. I stated originally I thought it was a combination of no assassin XP penalty *and* the throw edge. Fighting lower level opponents needs little explanation, so I outlined why I believe throw to be so powerful. I also, *while I was playing Defl, as well as afterward* specifically asked what factors into throw success because I was having a hard time with it. It isn't like this was the first character I've ever fought assassins with before in 20 years of CF. It was the first time I've gotten worked over (almost entirely) by throw + ground control damage. I suspect felar are particular susceptible due to low str (even with gear covering), but honestly I don't know. The difference could be all edge.

####, the IMMs "made" him quit playing them when they changed some things about assassinate a while back. He threw a bitch fit :)

I was amused.

Maybe they'll do it again so he gets out of his rut :)

Assassins and Transmuters are OP. I've been saying it for years but no believes me :(

gr

Are you trying to understate it?

It allows, unless I'm mistaken, throws on people trying to do some stuff to you (like missed bash).

Also makes ground control work much better. That's fairly significant.

Personally I think hiding classes should rarely be the favorite in toe to toe combat. They have stealth to swing things their way. Whereas assassins would normally be the favorite even without stealth.

Perhaps assassins should have a choice between stealth + assassinate, or visible but with great throws etc.

IIRC you get ground control on missed bashes. So damage and maybe malediction, but minimal lag.

..they just missed a bash, they don't notice the lag from the throw. Its not like it stacks for 5 rounds of lag.