As a member of Fortress (either Scribe/Acolyte or Squire/Maran) you are expected to not actively try and kill good align PC or NPC. Obviously, this things can happen on accident from time and time. The accidental ones are almost always overlooked and nothing bad comes from them.

A few recent examples of non-accidental killing of NPC and PC good align things:

A- Being wanted and mowing down peacekeepers in Voralia while trying to chase down an orc chieftan becuase they slowed down how fast he could reengage. This was viewed as poor form because said Fort guy acquired over a dozen good align npc kills and did not even successfully kill said evil dude.

B- Being wanted and trying to kill a goodie align Trib before learning that said Trib was good. Then shrotly after killing said Trib who the Fort guy knew was good due to previous discussions with other Fort dudes. This was viewed as poor form because said Fort guy activated intensify* while in his fight with said good align Trib.

In short, if you actually treat your character as a good align character instead of a neutral align character with request, you shouldn't run into any issues at all during your time in Fort.

* For those who are not aware of what intensify does/is, it is essentially the active skill that a monk paladin uses when he wants to kill you.

If you find yourself removed from your cabal or have your pledge rejected, the bar gets higher and you lose any sympathy when it comes to having to wait.

Altrana goofed pretty bad and from that moment on, expectations rose and it wasn't enough to simple not kill any more goodies or otherwise be average at best. The character needed to convince (in this case) Avderlain or Baerinika to give them a second chance.

My understanding is that Altrana simply didn't quite shine enough to make up for that serious transgression and when the player decided that an unacceptable amount of time had passed they escalated to OOC notes, emails, and forum posts. At that point the wheels were off and here we are.

Response to quasi-passive aggressive statement:

Since you brought it up. I'll say that after ~100 hours of RP - the "unacceptable" time period had LONG passed, not for me, but for Avderlain. A super majority of the playerbase is not 15, we have jobs, lives (well, some of you/us), etc.

At the point in the character arc I was at, I'd say its "acceptable" to write an OOC note, and email to avderlain saying, hey, throw me a bone, what is going on here - ~100 hours is ridiculous without even so much as talking to someone. Oh, and I CC'ed Baer hoping that she'd prod Avderlain, or tell me he was on vacation, or whatever.

Only AFTER I got absolutely 0 response to said OOC note and Email did I write on the forums about the general lack of roleplayed responses to in game problems. To prove my point, he only responded OOC, and never once made any type of IC connection with me. You know, Roleplay.

Nowhere else in your life is spending 100 hours actively waiting for someone to respond to you acceptable behavior.

Constructive Feedback and Guidance:

As for "not shining enough" - I had some really good pk's, and some really close pk's. Didn't get slaughtered by the lich and wight, multiple times, went out of my way to fight the hardest characters in the game, and did all kinds of good paladiny RP stuff.

If you would like to further elaborate on what was "not shining enough" and what "shining enough" would look like. I'd love to hear it so I can make a paladin that doesn't suck.

Thanks!

If not, don't say it was 100 hours.

I assume your interpreting Umiron's post as passive aggressive is indicative of why you had trouble.

Somewhere around there - yes.

First mistake you made after your incident was you tried to decide for me when your character had proven that they were ready to return to Fort.

Second mistake you made was you brought IC things OOC, that is pretty much always a bad move.

Third issue, which is less a mistake and more something that a lot of our players suffer from is what is often referred to as lightswitch rp.

When you knew that you were being watched or interracted with, you would turn the rp on hard and heavy. When you were just off doing your own thing to pass the time, you were just kind of there.

Lastly, there were a few different times where you would show up and pray for me only to be gone and logged out again by the time I would be able to interact. Now, that isn't something that I really say is a fault but it certainly made it hard to catch you but I'm understanding of that because life happens.

First: You are right. However, if you had so much as made (1) one, singular interaction with me in character, I likely wouldn't have been so frustrated/angry and attempted to move the process along. Luthanthulas was great at this - you should look over the logs.

Second: You are right. However, I was not getting any IC response. I felt I had no choice but try OOC methods to reach you, i.e., email. Granted, my ooc note in game was therapeutic, and overall highly ineffective. I believe my email was more along the lines of, "when are you free to meet in game." In fact, many Immortals like getting emails to setup times to meet in their shrine, etc. I've done this over the 20+ years of playing the game with great success.

Third: I never "know" when someone is watching me. I never understood when people say they "know" they are being watched, they RP. I just assume I'm being watched. I was always RP'ing. I don't understand what you mean by, "when you were just off doing your own thing..."

Like, running around grabbing preps? Practicing? What do you mean? Am I going to RP with the crap I'm killing in so I can get ? No. Did I do stuff like give gold to beggars and so on, sure. Do I say anything to the beggars? Not always. Does that mean I'm not RP'ing? Isn't it RP to give gold to the beggars and not seek reward and/or their gratitude? Isn't that humility? When I'm practicing skills, I do a few emotes before I sit there and spam for an hour. Is that not RP'ing? Do I have to re-emote everytime I wake up? I don't understand this comment and would like further clarification on what you saw as not roleplaying when I was off doing my own thing.

Keep in mind, I'm taking this as constructive feedback so I can make a non-crappy paladin. This isn't a challenge, but a request.

Thanks!

Playing a great paladin is the good alignment version of CF Hard Mode. It requires that a player creates a character that is restricted in more ways than others. Not only is a paladin bound by alignment and ethos, but it is also bound by sphere and empowerment. Then you have the racial quirks that can be tied into your RP if you want. To top it all off, paladins also have their own guidelines specific to the class. And if they are so inclined, they also have the cabal dogma to uphold as well.

What happens a lot of the time with people who play paladins is that they either do a fantastic job on two or three of the potentially five variables that are supposed to be met by a paladin. To use Altrana as an example, since the discussion is with you: You were a really good Akresius priest. Because of that however you ended up doing some things that made you a less than ideal Fort character and an average, or just below average, good align character. Thats not meant to be a jab or anything, its just how it was.

We at different points have had certain religions that accepted paladins that do not hold them to the paladin's code, per the religion. However, the character is still a paladin and should not disregard the class RP guidelines just because their chosen God/dess does not feel like the code doesn't fit with their religion.

Hopefully that helps to answer some of your questions, or at least gives you a better grasp on what helps to make a paladin really shine.

>What happens a lot of the time with people who play paladins
>is that they either do a fantastic job on two or three of the
>potentially five variables that are supposed to be met by a
>paladin. To use Altrana as an example, since the discussion
>is with you: You were a really good Akresius priest. Because
>of that however you ended up doing some things that made you a
>less than ideal Fort character and an average, or just below
>average, good align character. Thats not meant to be a jab or
>anything, its just how it was.

Agreed here, and this happens with a lot of my paladins. Avd and I often have the discussion about how a good chunk of my paladins are interesting to watch and generally good priests, but pretty terrible goodies. As a paladin, the Lords of Light are watching and may disagree with how you handle situations _even though_ you are RPing my religion well.

"The truest beauty is combat between bearers, each seeking
victory over the other, drinking from the cup of their shared blood." Marintok and Talisin, though of the same cabal, HAD to fight. To the death. If a Nexus imm wanted to boot them for it, them's the breaks because that's the religion. Though that hasn't happened with two lightwalker followers (yet), I expect it will at some point, and it will be doubly hard on paladins because of the scrutiny they draw.

I try to make this known every time I empower a paladin, that yes, you might have to kill a goodie and the fallout is for you to deal with. Altrana was in no danger of being unempowered due to her actions, though your extensive prays to Avderlain while "ignoring" Akresius would have made for a difficult second virtue.*

*to clarify: Akresius is selfish about his followers. This is IC, not OOC. I am not my character. So yes, Jalim, when his priest wears a different God's tattoo, he is going to be angry about it. :-P

Response to quasi-passive aggressive statement:

Since you brought it up. I'll say that after ~100 hours of RP - the "unacceptable" time period had LONG passed, not for me, but for Avderlain. A super majority of the playerbase is not 15, we have jobs, lives (well, some of you/us), etc.

At the point in the character arc I was at, I'd say its "acceptable" to write an OOC note, and email to avderlain saying, hey, throw me a bone, what is going on here - ~100 hours is ridiculous without even so much as talking to someone. Oh, and I CC'ed Baer hoping that she'd prod Avderlain, or tell me he was on vacation, or whatever.

Only AFTER I got absolutely 0 response to said OOC note and Email did I write on the forums about the general lack of roleplayed responses to in game problems. To prove my point, Avderlain only responded OOC, and never once made any type of IC connection with me. You know, Roleplay. To further prove my point, he did exactly as predicted, and "took his ball and went home" without ever making contact with me in character. Ever.

Nowhere else in your life is spending 100 hours actively waiting for someone to respond to you acceptable behavior.

Constructive Feedback and Guidance:

As for "not shining enough" - I had some really good pk's, and some really close pk's. Didn't get slaughtered by the lich and wight, multiple times, went out of my way to fight the hardest characters in the game, and did all kinds of good paladiny RP stuff.

If you would like to further elaborate on what was "not shining enough" and what "shining enough" would look like. I'd love to hear it so I can make a paladin that doesn't suck.

Thanks!

...should you just decide to go another direction (delete, perhaps try to roll with the punches and go Outlander, perhaps say #### it and try to get turned neutral, perhaps just take the bloodoath and really say #### it)...or should you attempt to keep trying?

I'm asking because I have a current char that happened to kill a goodie (who I had no idea was a goodie based on his gear or on his actions) who is also trying to get into Fort.

As of right now, for the last 10 hrs of the character (since I found out the character had killed a goodie)...I literally have not even been trying to get into the Fort. I've just been doing my own thing. And I've been enjoying it.

I'm not sure what I am trying to say, but if you can figure it out and give me an answer you're a better man than me.

As stated prior, that is something that can happen and if its an accidental thing, its generally pretty obvious. The majority of classes lack an inherent ability to detect alignment, so in those cases especially its a lot easier to accept that it wasn't intentional.

As far as joining Fort having killed a good align guy I think that you should be fine, but its one of those things where you should ask yourself what your character would do. This is the beginning of a potential RP arc for your character that you ultimately get to decide the outcome with. Especially because you were not inducted and then let go, because a regular mortal leader has the ability to let you in if that's what you want.

NT

A mortal leader would have no way to know. So it wouldn't stop you getting inducted unless a staff member watched you non-accidentally kill that guy and thought you knew he was good-aligned already before you attacked him and flagged your character as imm_induct_only.

Of course, if you do get inducted and then kill a good-aligned person again the pre-induction goodie kill might be used as evidence of a general disregard for the "don't kill goodies" thing.

Is that it is (sort of) treated like a goodie kill is a "real" kill when it is much more akin to (movie style!) knocking someone out for a bit so you can escape... as in, no real lasting harm (queue the Archer jokes) and is really just a break in the action.

That's all "Death" is in CF. Nothing stays dead except in very rare situations. Even NPC's are obviously raised in the same way PC's are (they return after a few ticks)... So in the context of (basically) knocking out some guy so that he doesn't (get in your way|help an enemy|attack you|choose reason) is it really unreasonable to do so as a goodie and not feel bad about it?

I mean even superman would knock someone out and move them to safety if they were bent on opposing him achieving a goal "for the greater good" and killing someone in CF is pretty analogous to that.

it's just that the gods aren't through with them yet so the character's thread to Thera remains


regarding mobs, i roleplay like they're dead and new ones rise up or are appointed. which works for some mobs but not others (named mobs)

>it's just that the gods aren't through with them yet so the
>character's thread to Thera remains

This seems the opposite of the definition of dead. Dead means you are done. Only age death and con death count in CF.

>regarding mobs, i roleplay like they're dead and new ones rise
>up or are appointed. which works for some mobs but not others
>(named mobs)

This seems a silly interpretation. A more internally (to CF) consistent one is that they return, like PCs, and are maintained in some sort of statis by the Gods (which is why they return to the same spot and do the same stuff). Only PCs are actually dynamic in CF. All the NPCs are frozen in some sort of perpetual statis unless poked by a PC.

I'd turn this into a character, but it wouldn't change my actions, and people would dismiss my talking as silly, even though it makes sense. Then some Imm would inhabit an NPC to "prove" that my character is wrong, but this is obviously intervention of the Gods... so yea... recipe for disappointment.

everyone came back from the dead and we starved because our crops were burnt. And then we came back again. Was a bad year. I want to join the Village.

x

Your only choice is to run and stay out of town said trib has jurisdiction over (and voralia/galadon). Pretty sure seantryn/hamsah guards aren't good aligned, could be wrong.


But then again, that's par for the course for playing the alignment that is best suited to help each other out. And getting request.

Every goodie I've had outside paladins break the law constantly. It's not impossible to overcome & it's not impossible to find other routes/invis etc...(yeah I know invis doesn't work all the time) Anyhow what I'm getting at is that it's harder to be a good character by design. Rp mud and all that