I started to notice that I wasn't getting any swiftstrikes using hand to hand (as a warrior with ironhands).

At first I thought it was because I just didn't know ironhands well enough and I was doing mostly dodging, however, I did a forum search and it seems like it may actually be the case that elf hand warriors can't swiftstrike with ironhands.

Can anyone confirm and comment on this? I'm going to be a pretty sad man if that's the case. If they parry they should be able to swiftstrike, right?

Syntax: This is an automatic, inherent ability.

The keen eyes and hands of the high-elves have long served them well in
battle, often atoning for their lack of brute strength. A high-elf who can
keep his eye on an opponent can slip in additional strikes in combat that
are nearly impossible to block.

The Swiftstrike skill requires a weapon of any type in the primary hand.
It is most effective when combined with a broad background in physical
combat, such as the teachings of the warrior guild. It relies on speed and
finesse to be maximally effective.

See also: HIGH ELF

Can I make a petition for it to be changed?

Is there a good reason why elf hand specs are penalized in this way?

Please? :)

Not sure why you'd be disappointed, its right in the helpfile. =P

It would just be like backfist, but, who says elves can't have their own version? It's also just like riposte. What's the difference?

Actually, you can riposte with a ball and freaking chain with swiftstrike. But, you cannot riposte with the hand controlling that ball and chain? With an axe? A whip?? I could go on. It just doesn't make sense to me.

I know, I didn't read the helpfile. It was right in there. When devising my build I honestly didn't even consider the fact that swiftstrike wouldn't be available for hands because it just seemed so natural that it would fire with ANYTHING YOU COULD PARRY WITH. It's an inherent skill available to elves. Why would some elves not get it?

I am really disappointed because when I was devising my build I was considering which elf race to play. I actually really wanted to play d-elf/wood-elf because of the higher dex and other reasons but decided to go elf instead because of swiftstrike. It literally was a tie-breaker for me. And now I've invested a bunch of time into the character and I found I don't have it. I am disappointed, deflated and really not very motivated to play right now.

That is why I'm asking again that the imms consider making the change. Is there any other reason that swiftstrike doesn't fire on hands other than it too closely resembles backfist? Does the staff consider elf hand spec a world beater or something and swiftstrike would be OP? If you won't consider it I would at least really appreciate the logic behind why this is the way it is.

Surely extending the swiftstrike perk to hth wouldn't make elf hth specs OP?

.

I thought for a moment it might be for this...

Thanks to the other two that support this!

I am guessing that due to the lack of further response the staff doesn't want to consider making this change, however, I have decided to ask one more time in the hopes that it's still being discussed or something.

Also, if it is the case that you don't want to make the change I am politely asking for a reason why. I realize you reserve the right to comment on the topics of your choice but I think that this particular restriction on the skill makes so little sense that it at least warrants an explanation. Maybe there is a good one but from this side it isn't readily apparent.

Furthermore, and in case you missed it, I'd like to reiterate some arguments for making the change.

Hands are weapons to hand specs.

If non-melee elves can swiftstrike, how is it a warrior no matter the weapon type, cannot?

If you can parry and riposte with awkward weapons (ball and chain?) such as a flail or whip, why can't you swiftstrike with the hand that controls them?

I don't think many people consider elf hand specs OP or a power build. Does the staff? Would this change push them to being OP? I'd argue likely not but maybe the staff has a different opinion on this.

Lastly, I would like to point out that there has been at least some public support from the playerbase in favor of this change.

I don't feel strongly about this either way. I'll try to see what other staff think and if there's a consensus to change it, it'll make it onto my list. That said, it's probably not going to change tomorrow.

It is very much appreciated. Understandable on the time issues.

Please don't slay me, but...

IRONHANDS IRON HANDS IRON HAND (674)Years of study and training in the art of barehand fighting causes bones to strengthen and calluses to develop to such an extent that it becomes possible to parry weapons with your hands.

And from the code change in Mar 2014...

- Elven monks can now Swiftstrike off of a successful Avoid of a normal combat blow, if theAvoid skill is in its active state. Like most monk abilities, this is heightened by the presence of theIntensify skill, if it is active.

Again, please don't slay me!