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Forum Name Gameplay
Topic subjectSuggestions for goblins
Topic URLhttps://forums.carrionfields.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=6&topic_id=60791
60791, Suggestions for goblins
Posted by the goblinator on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
I get this is probably the wrong time to be posting this, but some idea for giving goblins some kind of upward tweaks without making them awesome;

Give goblins the same set snares skill as orcs at level 40 (the same level orcs get it). Thematically this makes sense since if an orc is smart, nimble and cowardly enough to use snares, a goblin should be as well. I'd go so far as to say goblins would probably be better at it (i.e. maybe a goblin would get the same bonuses to constructing each snare subtype as the relevant orc adaptations).

Mechanically, the goblin is still going to be lacking in the the things that make orcs viable (exsanguinate, bash, savage feeding, etc) but is now given access to an underused part of the berserker arsenal which makes sense and is in most situations mostly equivalent to a cabal power most classes can gain access to (deadfall). The things orcs can do that goblins can't are many and varied, and the things goblins can do that orcs can't seem few.

If you make a comparison to the other class they're related to, thief, the set snares skill has nothing on what a trapper thief could do, not to mention the thief should still fight nearly as well as the goblin, be able to hide and detect hidden, and probably have a second path in there too.

In all think it would be a fairly safe way to make goblins *slightly* more interesting to play/fight against whilst still being overall much worse than either of the classes they're hybridised off.

Other ideas; available edges

Opportunistic bastard and brutalizer of the handicapped both seem like things a goblin should be able to learn. These are already fairly niche edges for orcs, the former in particular, and goblins have fewer ways of blinding an opponent so they should be even more niche for goblins. And if the snares skill were given, I'd think they should be able to pick savage cunning and savage trapper as well. These are all things that seem to play into the idea that orcs have a cowardly animalistic intelligence, which goblins share and looking their stat profile even exceed orcs in, rather than relying on brute strength.

I'd also personally allow goblins to take pit fighter, but that's mostly from a mechanics point of view - if goblins are going to be stuck which nothing but elbow/knee/kick in a lot of situations, shouldn't they at least be allowed a small advantage doing so at the cost of other things?

I understand goblins are not really meant to stack up to other classes balancewise but I think you could get away with all those things and they still wouldn't stack up to other classes.
60792, Don't forget goblins can join cabals
Posted by incognito on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Rager goblin is nothing to be sneered at and is particularly dangerous to those lvl 36 aps.
60793, I'd argue that this is has nothing to do with goblins
Posted by goblinator on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Rager powers are known to be very strong in the mid ranks, and I think it's by design that level 36 A-P's have a huge vulnerability - which in any case is dealt with by level 40. Most people can wield a cursed weapon and quaff flight and the goblin is left spamming kick.

I'm comparing uncaballed/GSV goblins to uncaballed/GSV characters here - if we're comparing rager goblin to thief for instance, we should be comparing it to a rager thief. Any non-mage class can be a rager but that doesn't mean they should all be as weak as goblins (or does it?).

Also if we consider goblins as needing cabal powers to be viable that's a huge disincentive for going GSV, and I don't think goblins should be disincentivised to go GSV.
60794, My point is that orcs can't get cabal powers
Posted by incognito on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
And goblins can, so you have to take that into account when comparing the classes.
60796, orcs vs goblins
Posted by goblinator on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
There's no comparison really. I'd argue that in most cases an adaptation goes further than cabal powers, and an unadapted orc is still far tougher and deadlier than a goblin. As well it should be.

But the snares idea seems to make sense thematically (it even doesn't make sense that goblins don't learn it), and give goblins a little bit more to play with without making them remotely as deadly as an orc or a thief.