BLUF/TLDR = Just because you beat on Villager doesn't mean you should get a free pass to be left alone. No other player/cabal is held to that.


I personally (in almost 20 years) have only played 2 villagers. So I can honestly not hold a bias towards or against Battle. ADDENDUM: I have no comments yay or nay about the dwarf drillmaster thing. This is about the next man up tactic.

There is nothing wrong with finishing off an enemy that has killed or made the other guy flee. It is of tactical advantage to utilize the situation. EVERYONE else on the entire mud uses it to their advantage.

To handcuff the battle because of what amounts to OOC sportsmanship and nothing else is sad. It isn't a matter of honor on the battlefield. If your response to that is because they abide by parity... I say it doesn't apply once the other person is dead. It is still 1v1. Same as if the villager jumped someone leveling, or just bloodied. It holds Battle to an extreme level, while holding no one else. If your argument to that is because of their powers, my response is it is still a 1v1 fight and that if there powers are so great that they are only allowed to engage perfect health people then perhaps their powers are to strong (which they aren't).

Also if the enemy doesn't leave he is also fair game. Corpse guard being the reason to stay is also OOC sportsmanship. So to not finish off the wounded mage, imperial, or nexun is compounded by ooc sportsmanship... IC the bloodied guy should have fallen back. And if they fell back when battle presses for a raid it is stupid leave the potential for metaphorical stab in the back...

In military terms taking out outlying factors is called preperation of the battlefield and it would be applied most certainly by the greatest warriors of Thera.

So get the out of the battle space or prepare to die.



Edited to fix 1 word.
EDIT 2 added addendum

And it boiled down to Berserkers = Tablet, Defenders/Scouts = Plaque.

Which is how it probably should be since everyone isn't running around with deathblow and scouts/defenders are underwhelming more often than not.

>And it boiled down to Berserkers = Tablet, Defenders/Scouts =
>Plaque.
>
>Which is how it probably should be since everyone isn't
>running around with deathblow and scouts/defenders are
>underwhelming more often than not.


Verathi's call = the right one, and in-line with my instructions about handling issues of parity.

Tablet = Berserkers and LEADERS (commander/drillmaster)
This expectation is made clear to anyone who gets a leadership position.

Plaque = Everyone else, up to a point. If there is nothing but gankfest behavior by scout/defenders then I view it as rank cowardice and unfitting of a battlerager.

Excuses, like 'well we were on the way to raid' to justify ganking someone in Balator just doesn't fly for me. Parity getting set aside in those kinds of instances would need to be you retrieving than taking an item. Inside a cabal HQ against defender/s is more acceptable, however within reason. 5 guys lining up to smack down one lone defender, might be OK, but should be given some thought.

Sure there are a bunch of grey areas, but in general, being a rager should not be easy street, at least not if you are playing it right.
Honor also does not equate to courage, nor vice versa.

/end 2Cents

are set until further notice.

For the record, I was just giving my thoughts and opinions.

So a character that was seen as a "good" character and someone who fulfilled a desperate need for the village (Verathi's words not mine) gets a total of 200 IMM xp from Battle Imms in 200+ hrs, then after he eats a near full loot gets the one perk he got from the IMMs taken away and chewed out and you don't see why that's not messed up?

Sometimes I wonder if you guys just want us to hate-play CF or all be griefers. You certainly are doing what you can to make the players feel happy about CF.

You got exactly the answer you were looking for and have a written set of rules to go by and the reasoning with the ungranting was explained. Not sure there is was any need of you to bitch any further, just sort of makes you look like an asshole. Ysal responded positively and explained what happened and isn't trying to #### in your cake. You're getting into 'I just want to complain about life in general so I'll use CF as that outlet even if I offend people who've done nothing to me in the process' mode again.

And getting "shafted" is likely one of the reasons.

I actually give a #### about a lot of the people that play CF (shockingly even you) and I've had too many friends kill themselves to not feel passionately about these types of things (talking about meltdowns).

Since you are essentially attacking an Imm for their decision because it had a negative impact for another player (and the Imms are still people who play CF). And your reason for said passion and anger at said Imm decisions lies in your care for the people who play CF.

If I missed something along the way then I apologize, but I am certainly scratching my head after this one.

gr

I disagree with way everything was handled, from an EMPIRE Imm policing BATTLE (unless you are Verathi...and he said you weren't which I believe), to how the BATTLE Imm themselves handled it. Instead of making the players experience better you ruined a solid character and basically created a player meltdown outside of CF.

I respect the work all IMMs do but please don't expect me to agree with every decision you guys make, and keep quiet when I feel you could do better.

Fwiw, just because Destuvius is an Empire Imm does not mean that I (the person behind Destuvius) am outlawed from making comments against other characters who are not in Empire cabal. The extent of my "policing" of a Battle character was me making note of a behavior and being asked about it by Battle imms. The same thing happens fairly regularly as none of our cabals have a constant 24/7 coverage by someone who is accountable for said cabal.

There are a lot of people who have weighed in on the subject and I think it is pretty safe to say that there is no clear-cut majority as to whether or not the way that the incident was handled on the mud was "right or wrong" in the court of player perception. What has been stated by Battle imms is that the situation was handled like it was supposed to be, so there is not really much point in debating that further.

The whole matter of a player meltdown outside of CF is one that I am fairly confident that no one wants to actually be the cause of. Sadly, there is not a single person who can control the reaction of an IC reprimand other than the player behind the character who received said reprimand. To try and point the finger at us, the staff, for what could have been a culmination of other external variables in life is a bit excessive and in my opinion completely unwarranted. Whether or not you agree with me in that sentiment is your choice, but I stand firmly as a believer that every single person should be accountable for their own reactions to whatever comes their way.

Another thing that I would like to mention is you seem to be super convinced that the *only* person who was impacted during this whole thing was the player of Bhelgus. Yet you have managed to create a tinfoil hat conspiracy against me and against other members of the staff. There is a very distinct ripple effect here and you have never once acknowledged that there is the potential for a negative for the people on the other side of the coin.

I appreciate that you respect our work, and I certainly do not expect you to agree with every decision that we make. We are also quite happy to accept constructive criticisms. I do think that you could use some work on your approach with how you offer input. To be perfectly honest, you just sound like you are attempting to discredit and tarnish the reputation of whatever staff member you feel has slighted whichever person you are trying to white knight for.

>To try and point the finger at us, the staff, for what could have been a culmination of other external variables in life is a bit excessive and in my opinion completely unwarranted. Whether or not you agree with me in that sentiment is your choice, but I stand firmly as a believer that every single person should be accountable for their own reactions to whatever comes their way.<

Why is it no IMM commented at all until I posted on Dio's? Kinda disrespectful to Bhelgus, who was very likely angry and confused. Again, this is a character who by YOUR (imms) own words was a good character and handled the situation well.

>Sadly, there is not a single person who can control the reaction of an IC reprimand other than the player behind the character who received said reprimand. To try and point the finger at us, the staff, for what could have been a culmination of other external variables in life is a bit excessive and in my opinion completely unwarranted. Whether or not you agree with me in that sentiment is your choice, but I stand firmly as a believer that every single person should be accountable for their own reactions to whatever comes their way.<

Please then practice what you preach. I've never said I'm against reprimands. I'm against reprimands that are handled poorly. One simple 200 Imm xpadd would have likely saved the whole situation...but you all couldn't be bothered. That's sad on many levels. I go out of my way to help other/new players and it would be advantageous for IMMs other then Mendos to do the same.

>Another thing that I would like to mention is you seem to be super convinced that the *only* person who was impacted during this whole thing was the player of Bhelgus. Yet you have managed to create a tinfoil hat conspiracy against me and against other members of the staff. There is a very distinct ripple effect here and you have never once acknowledged that there is the potential for a negative for the people on the other side of the coin. <

*warning incoming snark* Did you delete? Did I ever once post that Verathi is a thundercunt? Did I ever say you are part of a player-driven perma? Geez, I'm so sorry that I posted that an Empire IMM seemingly bullied a BATTLE Imm into ruining a character. Perhaps if someone had bothered to post on Bhelgus's death thread for the 12-13 days before, my post wouldn't have ever happened. GTFO with this ####, now you're sounding like the char you IMM'd with instead of a player.

>I do think that you could use some work on your approach with how you offer input. To be perfectly honest, you just sound like you are attempting to discredit and tarnish the reputation of whatever staff member you feel has slighted whichever person you are trying to white knight for.<

Other than saying I disagree with how BATTLE is run and that I'm upset that I spent 10 hrs writing BATTLE roles for people that after what happened decided not to go BATTLE...I mean...if that's tarnishing a rep you guys have done WAY WORSE to me or other players (Torak being a good example) CONSISTENTLY. GTFO out with that ####. I white knight no one. I merely try to make this game better, same as you.

FWIW I always have trouble in print opposed to face-to-face.

I second what you said about him. He is a boon to CF.

While there may not be any super obvious things such as a delete or random rantings, there is very much a consequence to your inaccurate assumptions and accusations. If you choose to ignore the reality of that, then that's fine and I can't stop you from thinking it doesn't exist because you can't see it. Clearly, you are way too angry at me for whatever reason to have a discussion so I'll happily let you have the last word if you choose to respond to this.

It's your right.

But it doesn't help anyone if you choose to stick your fingers in your ears and blame players for every ill affecting CF. You can choose to ignore all the constructive things I posted in favor of singling in on one batch of causticity. I didn't. I took your post at it's full worth and tried to respond. I could have just said "Way to be" but that solves nothing.

You're someone with the potential to increase everyone's enjoyment. I (and other players) can only do so much. Do better.

*mic drop*

Seriously,

I don't know what the #### is the matter with you lately. The guy broke parity as a leader and paid the price. Just because you have some skewed 'vision' of what battle 'should' be - your 'opinion' is not the tablet. The tablet is the tablet. Guy broke the tablet as a leader guy paid the price.

Ghuljun's reaction is owned by Ghuljun - PERIOD. He is an adult and should be in control of his actions...nobody "made" him flip out - he chose to.

I really don't understand why you are attacking people for making the right decision.

There are plenty of ic reasons a villager would choose not to jump an enemy who has barely survived a fight to the death.

Also, I personally spared a villager the other day when I could have killed him and I pulled out of attacking him when he had a tough match up vs other enemies.

Again, ic reasons.

I am not saying a character can't have it's own reason. I'm speaking of the military mindset as it pertains to the battle cabal itself. An individual could be a knight with a hut. That is the character though.

As some pointed out there is a line... Jerrokar was someone that can tarnish the entire reputation.

Depends on current leadership (mortal and immortal) and also your role.

Perspectives on parity have changed in nuanced ways many times just do what you think your character should and roll with what happens. Keeping in mind being deferential to leaders is a part of village dogma.

Me personally it depends on the enemy. Someone that is either mega tough (lich 300 charge AP) or someone you just are not going to get a fight any other way (assassinate assassin, conservative air shifter) are people I would just too over after they finish a fight.

Or situationally if it's something like 2 villagers against a large group and you isolated a an enemy, just finish them off to make the hank you will eat in five minutes a little lighter.

If it is someone you get fights with on the regular just walk away and wait for the next opportunity.

You are the "Best warriors in the world" and frankly, any berserker would be ashamed to "finish off" someone elses opponent. They aren't executioners of weak-ass mostly dead magi, they are honorable students of war. They are bound by honor, its written in plain sight within the village for this very reason. There is a time when this is acceptable, and that is during an actual raid situation - or evening odds 2v2 3v3 etc.

Battle is in no way handcuffed - unless they don't have the head, I am sorry but battle is flat-out easy street. Every other person in the game needs to farm preps to compete at the level that battle can compete (and all battle PC needs is mana). You essentially get to run around with DR consistent between stoneskin/aura consistently up (imagine the time/cost for doing this with a prep warrior). Not to mention spellbane.

The "next batter up" play outside of a raid is piss-poor rager RP, not to mention against the tablet. Were I DM you'd "maybe" be warned before I burned your hut.

I am thankful that from what I could tell IC Urgandtol seems to share this oldschool rager opinion

nt

n/t

And a certain someone wasn't a serial crappy rager player.
He was a trailblazer for what the cabal is supposed to be.

My rager friend is fighting you on Eastern? It must be an enemy raid, DEFEND THE VILLAGE AND GANG THE ATTACKERS!

My rager friend is fighting someone anywhere else? I must join in to ensure my buddy lives and the mage dies!

My rager friend just died? I must avenge him as soon as he dies by bashing his killer!

My rager friend just made a mage flee? I must dash e cranial mage, it's not like the other rager wants to finish this fight.

You're an elf paladin? I assume you'll probably attack me, so I must bash you!

You're an uncaballed cloud giant warrior? I must kill him because he probably uses magical things, he's mage filth!

Krunk just solo PK'd me? I must bitch about orcs being OP and tell everyone I'd have 600 PKs if I had masochism.

Two people are raiding the village when I'm alone? I must log off to save my gear and preserve my pk stats.

I logged in without the head and defenders in range? See above.


Battle sounds awesome now. Sign me up.

You just made me bust a gut - this was almost as good as the poison pen :P

Guess all Fort characters have 25 commander kills.

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=6&topic_id=39721&mesg_id=39744&page=

Relevant part:
"Parity is an internal measurement of oneself. Your enemies will try to use it against you. It is not honor. It is not being predictable. It cannot define you or your character. It is a series of moments in which you choose to evaluate whether you are your enemy's equal. In this, it is not the place of your enemy to dictate whether you are following the 'rules of parity.' "

Also:
PK Gank-O-Meter

Total PK Wins 252
Total PK Assists 108
Solo PKs 139
PKs with a group of 2 130
PKs with a group of 3 63
PKs with a group of 4+ 28
Average Group Size Per Kill 1.96
Death's Gank-O-Meter says: Brings a friend

Total PK Losses 64
Solo PK Losses 27
PK Losses to a group of 2 19
PK Losses to a group of 3 11
PK Losses to a group of 4+ 7
Average Group Size Per Death 2.02

Death's Ganked-O-Meter says: Death By Minor Mob Scene

vs

PK Gank-O-Meter

Total PK Wins 96
Total Solo PKs 65
Total PK Assists 21
Average Group Size Per Kill 1.62
Death's Gank-O-Meter says: Somewhat Ganky

Total PK Losses 93
Total Solo PK Losses 40
Average Group Size Per Death 1.83

Death's Ganked-O-Meter says: People Bring Friends to Beat You


And supposedly "I" ganged a lot.

Expected a better response from you.

The only instance he gives where villagers are ganging is

Two lesser BattleRagers (in competence, skill, faction) facing a more than competent Emperor, Rhyme, Meter, Chancellor, Advisor, etc.

are you insinuating that the sad mostly dead mage that beat your buddy is a more than competent cabal leader? Or was it just some mage.

Parity has always been set aside for crazy powerful scion lich/ap/etc - rarely are there any of those anymore (maybe jermet). But, if you are standing around waiting for the outcome of normaljoerager vs normaljoeshifter - you sir are a ####ty rager.

nt

http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?3,1057893,1057893#msg-1057893

Clearly, she is a force to be reckoned with - obviously on the scale of a 1800hp lich with phylacs/full army

Edit: to remove snark

nt

nt

Because, you know, I "didn't" have the 3rd lowest gank score of a BATTLE char with over 30 kills (and #1 for Defenders) in the last 12 years.

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=31&topic_id=17033&mesg_id=17044&page=

And I mean...not like the 2 Berserkers above me were former IMMs either...oh wait.

God some of you guys love to NOT put your money where your mouth is.

NT

You're ESL and new so it's cool.

The point I am trying to make is you can make a BATTLE char who is a militant parity enforcer, or you can play one with nuance who abides by the spirit and not the dogmatic letter of the law.

Both are valid and should be allowed. No one, NO ONE is saying you should have 4 zerkers all bloodthirsting ganging down everything in sight.

NT

i mean, you did say 4...

have you met Jerry?

Also, they can engage a conjie's pets, for instance. Though the fourth one will be sitting there watching. Mmm, warp dimension.

For someone who brags about having logged "1,000 hours in battle!" I just simply cannot believe that you seem to be condoning the 'next batter up' village mentality.

I know that you know there are times when parity is cast aside (raid/raid defense/group fight vs group fight). I also know damn well that IMM's have given the clear to gang down powerful chars - during my rager's lifespans these were: Nuloh, Ahtieli, Dulameh(sp), Mekantos, Khargurln(sp), and a few others that I am forgetting.

I also don't believe (given your vast experience playing the game) that you can honestly argue that Fessara stacks up to any of the above in terms of actual threat.

Assassins have always been a bad matchup for village warriors without detect hidden, assassinate is indeed the bane of certain village builds - just like an Orc is going to absolutely PWN some village builds. This does not put the Orc, nor the Assassin on par with a lich/AP that can literally wade into a group of 3-4 villagers and KILL THEM ALL at pretty much the same time. Nor do I believe any IMM is going to give villagers the 'clear' to gang Fessara.

I'm sorry if I'm causing you grief, I simply just do not agree with you in even the slightest that 'next batter up' is a valid village tactic, I know you are above the level of Jerry with your village RP and standards.

I mean, I'm pretty sure when I was playing Panir that you were a fire giant villager that I tuned up quite well back in 03, and you adhered to parity just fine - why the flip?

Even though I thought I had already but whatever.

Village parity isn't a "set in stone" (tablet pun haha) thing for at least 50% of situations. An example I like to cite often is if you were a berserker and came along Marintok fighting Jermet...would you stand idly by and wait for them to finish their battle? Or would you try to kill both of them? Some village roles MIGHT stand by, some might target Marintok (squishie-er and thus "easier" to kill), some might target Jermet (mage needs to DIE!!) first. ALL are valid, correct?

So that's a situation where you are next man up, no?

Then, let's add some alignment nuance. Say a thief is constantly owning 1 or 2 less skilled villagers on Eastern, and as you are walking back to the village you notice the thief has one of them knocked out a few steps from the ruins. As an evil Fire Giant berserker (let's call him Borkahd) I can totally see an RP angle where you do nothing and leave the other villager to die, because only the strong survive and you want no weakness in your barbarian village.

At the same time, let's say everything is the same but now you're a good-aligned village defender (let's call him Bhelgus...and I am not saying this was his RP but the example works). I could totally see a valid roleplay angle where you either wake the villager up or kill the thief if he's visible. After all, since you're good-aligned it's pretty craptastic RP to just let your allies die when you could have saved them (right? don't we all get pissed when some Fort char is a giant coward or recalls at covered to leave allies to die?). Not only that, but you've swore to defend the village.

In both situations I would have no problem with the two villagers then going to the circle to RP out perceived "breaches" in parity. Could Verathi have used this as a teaching experience instead of ####ting all over Bhelgus's funstick? Probably, he seems new, so while I am saddened he chose wrongly IMHO, I'm not saying he sucks a giant bag of ####s.

Clearer?

(Now, I'm going to say some stuff here, and I'd like to up front say that I really liked Bhelgus IC, and that I never had a bad experience even though I bashed him into the dirt quite a bit with Kobuk)

However:

from his posts on the "other forum" you can quickly glean that Bhelgus' player flies off at the mouth a bit when upset. You can also tell that he downright OOC hated Fessara. You also have to understand that an IMM is going to be privy to information regarding IC character exchanges that we are not(banter/threats/####-talking/etc)

Knowing what you know about the player and his rants, do you really think he struck Fessara out of "Goodie RP"? or was it an OOC vendetta? I honestly can't make that call, and I don't think you can either - however I think you understand as well as I given the evidence it definitely could have been either.

Were I the IMM, and had I thought that this person was hitting someone out of OOC angst, right after they got "Beat up" by another villager? That'd be bad RP, and likely boot-time...do you not agree?

It always takes two to tango man.

Assuming ghuljun isn't lying...Pico's shrine is kinda still in the rager gang zone.

I know I abused the #### out of that healer when being a BATTLE enemy and would have no problem getting jumped there.

Jerry as an example (which was used to put a bit of fun in the response) is the inevitable result of what happens when rules are left too much to player interpretation. He's the perfect example of why there has to be a line, so yes, he is the shining example. The guy compared himself to Twist's char (Caitlyn) and NbM's char (Akedeh) and actually thought he was comparable or better. PK Stats wise maybe, but how they get there matters.

I'll ignore the pbf, since it has no bearing on this. You either knew the char and the class or you look at a number and assume it tells the tale. I know how she played for 990 hours, and the only person who would point to her gank ratio to evaluate her as a villager would be Jerry. Some of my favorite posts of his.

http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?3,948658,948789#msg-948789
http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?3,948658,948815#msg-948815
My char was not even in that log. Cause yes, I was very much against ganging outside of the raid/defense dynamic IC which annoyed him.

There's more to playing CF, and especially a villager, than winning PKs. Moreso if you are the Commander or DM. It's about being an example to other villagers. That even in defeat your will remains unbroken, that you do not shy from challenges but attempt to rise to meet them. That's the essence of parity to me, that you rely on your own strength to continue the fight of your brothers against all but the most over matched opponents for you. It's a measure that you take of yourself. And in the context of using "next man up" consistently, that measure would come up pretty low, even for me. If Battle only cares about kill mages/enemies, the concept of parity would have zero reason to exist at all. The Circle wouldn't exist if parity was something so easily stretched or tossed aside. And I hate the circle and how some villagers would use it, but I get why it exists.

The biggest problem with next man up isn't the occasion where it is called for. It's all the occasions it will end up as a justification when it shouldn't be. Not everyone maintains the RP when a free PK is available to them, especially to a char that people hate. Lots of people twist RP to suit PK, so why give them one more way to do so?

I'm the one who should have expected a better response than a propped up pbf, especially one of mine and of yours, as if either proves anything. I'm glad you gave some better ones elsewhere on the thread.

...you of all people (having led the village LIKE A BOSS for 600 hrs) shouldn't advance a narrative in which Jerry's ragers are the example. I don't judge Fort character's based on what Kegren or Reksha did/did not do.

The point is not every situation is cut-and-dry. Were I Verathi, instead of ruining a character I would have brought Bhelgus into the Rites, bitched him out a bit, threw him the Reckless flaw, and depending on how he handled it, 500 Imm xp. I would have then had the Destructor say "If there is a next time we have to have this talk I will burn your hut myself".

The point should be player enjoyment. Instead, Bhelgus got nearly fulled AND lost his leader spot without any indication his character wasn't ruined. To whit:

Mon Jun 8 15:41:30 2015 by 'Verathi' at level 51 (227 hrs):
Spoke with him about what was seen earlier against Fessara. Gave him the potential to fess up or argue. He took it in stride, saying though Fessara had just retrieved he viewed them as a constant state of war.

Mon Jun 8 15:41:30 2015 by 'Verathi' at level 51 (227 hrs):
He also said they immediately did go back and reraid. Ungranted for breaking parity they knew to keep, but he handled this well. Hoping for redemption.

If EVER there is a time to throw out IMM xp, isn't this the case? As a sort "hang in there buddy we still like your char" at the very least?

only punished

good deeds go unnoticed and encouragement is not in their vocabulary. i don't say that to be mean, just, it is what it is.

is there such a thing as a 'hang in there buddy'?

there was 1 time where twist fixed my corrupted pfile and boosted me a level or 2 beyond, plus through in like 60 for lost trains/pracs, but that was like 2001 and he was just making up for lost ground through pfile restore.

...was because after Igbah's Dwarf Captain WTFPWN'd me when I was playing Kruuank, Muuloc came down into a mob, RP'd with me, gave me a title and some Imm xp.

That was a huge moment for me as I had just started to get frustrated by my lack of success (didn't understand the Greeting legacy allowed a dwarf to perma-lag a giant via bash) and that type of "hey buddy, don't get discouraged we like what you are doing" was HUGE for a n00b me.

It is what it is.

Thu Nov 10 00:39:10 2005 by 'Muuloc' at level 51 (131 hrs):
This guy is constantly roleplaying from what I've seen, and seems to play with a great attitude. Nothing fancy, but the kind of character that makes the game fun.

Thu Nov 10 00:59:17 2005 by 'An Immortal' at level 51 (131 hrs):
An Immortal added 2000 exp for: for good roleplay in general, Muuloc interacted with him using some mobs...he apparantly kicked copious ass. Hence, the rewards. Huzzah.

Thu Nov 10 00:59:59 2005 by 'Muuloc' at level 51 (131 hrs):
Given title Motherless Brute for consistent roleplay and because it fits his role.

Thror made me the first Drillmaster of battle. just before that he did a pimp quest just for me. i was low 40s and i had to kill Jumnarl alone. i failed, but oh well, gunz blazing.

only thing i've had lately is a few scoldings for losing my cool when overly frustrated by the game, players, or mechanics (generally a combination of all 3 at once! yay)

sucks to keep coming back to a dry well, y'know?

We can't say what we would do were we Imms, but hopefully we would stick to our IC persona. I know almost nothing about Verathi from an IC perspective (and OC doesn't matter) except he is a battle Imm. Verathi allowed him to remain a rager, he just lost DM. That's hardly the end of the world, hell, leadership ends up being a lot of work for little reward as you well know. To me, that was enough of a hey, you're still a decent rager so keep at it, from Verathi.

There's an opportunity there for fun RP and to get DM back, but the player simply did not take it and deleted instead. If you need a reassuring pat on the back to keep you from deleting when a setback occurs, you're going to delete a lot of characters. Especially in Battle. An Imm has the hardest line between IC and OC to walk when doing things, and the PB should give them a bit of slack when making those decisions.

Were he booted, yeah, I would argue the Imm probably went overboard. This was a slap on the wrist by the Imm though, which was about the right action given the breach was not terrible. Would you rather the Imm removed DB from him for 50 hours? I think in either event, the player deletes.

It's not like after he got booted, he started quaffing potions, eating fillets, and grouping with the Rhyme to gang down battleragers at the hillock, and then Verathi hit with the betrayer flag, lost his legacies/specs and deleted. The bridge back to DM was still very much there, he just had to want to walk back over it.

You have to put equal responsibility on players to react IC to an Imm's IC actions for the system to work. The player decided to delete over this, the Imm did nothing wrong. Knee jerk reactions are often bad ones.

Need to read better my old friend.

And lest you forget, this char was in the village during peak EMPIRE perma/hell trip mode. IMMs eventually added a 2nd route into Imperial lands because Empire was slaughtering villagers wholesale with sanc'd invoker-shielded bard buffed Cents. They even changed healer NPC healing ostensibly because of this.

While Battle may have found them to be the most beneficial, the changes were done for a quality of life improvement for all players. When Empire is going full tilt, it borderline ruins the potential fun for everyone who is not Empire. The trade off generally is that when Empire is in the dumps, its really really bad off because everyone still hates you =P.

Edit: That commentary is meant about the 2nd way in and out of Imperial lands. The healing vs non-grouped mobs was done for everyone and unrelated to Empire being really strong at the time.

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=6&topic_id=39721&mesg_id=39734&page=

Relevant part:

"Honor won't be mentioned because it distracts from the core value of Courage. It has no place in the Village (unless as a role of an individual) and it has been the downfall of characters and cabals in the past."

Urgandtol is a very cool villager.