My crocodile form has a deflection skill and it says the croc should deflect some blows. But Im pretty sure it doesnt deflect any blows at all. Never saw him doing so!
That would be sad, becouse Ive chousen the edge for better deflection before I realized that :)

Some defensive forms with deflection, deflect regular attacks as well as targeted commands. I'm pretty sure that crocodile only does the targeted commands though. So while you don't deflect any regular hits, you'll still deflect that flurry, and more so with that edge.

Some defensive forms are very dodgy, some are very "deflecty" and some have high damage reduction.

Crocodile falls into the latter camp. It has high damage reduction, some regen and it doesn't do dodge, or deflection all that well.

My guess is there is a relatively small chance of it to deflect, and you have now made it slightly less so with your edge.

NB: Having said that, croc is a really fantastic form to explore with given its amphibious nature (you can explore above and underwater).

Typically only water forms are amphibious with a few exceptions. Despite the lack of deflection, I think you would probably regret deleting further down the road if you did. Especially since you seem to be very exploration oriented to me.

I think you meant to say that 'there is a relatively small chance of it to deflect, and you have now made it slightly MORE so with your edge'.

Croc's killer feature is regen, and because you regen you are not going to deflect as many hits or have as much damage reduction as a form that does not have regen.

Most would consider croc a very worthwhile form.

Slightly less so refers to it (the small chance to deflect) becoming slightly less small.

Well, I should know better than to try to correct Mendos. Just looked weird.

Or linguistic talent of you coder types, apparently. It was ambiguously worded.

Although typically by the time I get around to posting these boards it is in the evening and my brain has melted.

It's only useful as regen now. It tanks with its face and has very little damage reduction. Same goes for Komodo.

I'm sure I saw it throwing out demos before, now it throws out wounds

Are you sure you are confusing Alligator and Croc? I've never seen Croc throw out much damage.

Alligators would throw out multiple oblits, crocs would do a single demolish.

Croc damage has always been erratic, ranges from hit to ***DEMOLISH***.

This is correct. Its damage didn't change, it was always extremely erratic (relative to most other forms) and still is.

I've played pre and post change croc. The form is fantastic for exploring. Regen + plus redux is great for solo explore.

With full ABS being less available (generally) and a few other things it might be less effective in PK. I still love the form but I enjoy exploration as well as PK.

Also, on the damage output (other discussion), the input skill does more consistent damage than the round based attacks and is generally more reliable.

Edit: When you claim it has been "nerfed":

1. What time reference are you gauging this form against? Pre and post Shifter revamp?
2. In what sense has it been nerfed in your opinion?

I am not talking about PK here, simply exploration. I think it does a pretty good job as a defensive form in solo exploring myself. Compared to many other defensive form options, it has a lot of benefits. In PK this statement is more debatable, but that's not what I said in my original post.

Edit: Also "Nerfed into oblivion" is pretty strong language to use generally. Especially when this player is new and has explicitly mentioned their intent to explore in game, rather than PK.

Subjectively speaking I don't think anything has been nerfed into oblivion at any point in CF's history. Nerfed? Maybe. Toned down? Almost certainly.

Also, keep in mind that even if this discussion was within the realms of PK then having the biggest and baddest ass-beating form might not be the best way for a new player to learn the nuances of the game, or the class. Taking a form that mows down enemies like a freight train does not always lend itself to learning skill through overcoming adversity, or out of the box thinking. Despite probably feeling like the man for 400 hours of game play.

(To draw a parallel, in the words of Patches O'Hoolihan: "If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZXHsNqkDI4 )

Without rescue it was of limited use in group fights (unless you had some way to prevent redirect through lag or blindness).

It is still equally effective in use for just running away from a PK situation.

It was never realistically doing anything towards killing another player solo in the first place.


In practice it was just used in a rope a dope method to regen HP to re-engage with an offensive form. Anyone worth their salt would take that time to just back off and wait for another time. Folks who fell prey to that tactic are still likely to die regardless of the change.


It getting downgraded might actually help its PK ability because the, "just walk away" threshold has altered and it might entice people to take a little bit more risk and press and overcommit.

>I've played pre and post change croc. The form is fantastic
>for exploring. Regen + plus redux is great for solo explore.

It used to be an awesome form. I concur.

>Also, on the damage output (other discussion), the input skill
>does more consistent damage than the round based attacks and
>is generally more reliable.

You don't take a def form for its damage output. Also there as been no really noticable change in this department anyway so it is irrelevant from my point of view.

>Edit: When you claim it has been "nerfed":
>
>1. What time reference are you gauging this form against? Pre
>and post Shifter revamp?

I am refering to post July 2014 changes (see http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=47&topic_id=109&mesg_id=109&page=)

"Some shifter forms have been rebalanced slightly; generally speaking, when evaluating a form's balance we now consider higher end HP regen more valuable and higher end normal dodging less valuable. Ergo, this set of changes is good for you if you're a mongoose and not so good for you if you're a crocodile."

If you haven't played a croc/komodo since these changes then I understand where you are coming from, but you cannot understand where I am coming from.

>2. In what sense has it been nerfed in your opinion?

It tanks with its face (as expected) but the damage reduction has been nerfed to oblivion. It now takes WAY more damage. We're not talking an extra 10% damage. We're talking an extra 500% damage. It's gone from Significant Damage Reduction to what feels like Minor Damage Reduction (I'd have to double check).

That is a gamechanging nerf and makes the form completely useless except as an OOC regen bunny.

>Edit: Also "Nerfed into oblivion" is pretty strong language to
>use generally. Especially when this player is new and has
>explicitly mentioned their intent to explore in game, rather
>than PK.

I stand by that comment. I also advised the player in question IC to switch out croc.

>Subjectively speaking I don't think anything has been nerfed
>into oblivion at any point in CF's history. Nerfed? Maybe.
>Toned down? Almost certainly.

All that needed to be done IMHO was to boost lemur and mongoose. Nerfing the regen forms was a really bad choice.

Edit: Improved readability

I have not played a croc after the recent change, so I won't argue with you.

If I get a chance at a later date, time permitting, I'll experiment around with a shifter and try to snag the form and see.

That's a bit much. The komodo was essentially invulnerable.

Since the change I've seen a croc tank two elite storms at once, and then move on to the next one without needing to rest. That's still great tanking, it's just no longer absurd tanking.