The easiest, cheesiest class just got easier and cheesier.
Now, not only can you pk a decent # of race/class combos at hero by spamming flyto;shift;lagcommand $targ with no gear or preps, you can now do it easier and quicker!

Woot?

Most forms are more potent in the 4th tier. If a human shifter gets it earlier than most people, so be it. Bird-forms have their limitations. I rather have water forms being able to fight on lands too, but then it may not be possible. You'll be surprised how many air-form shifters die, thinking they have a quick kill.

The differences in ranks of races against humans are a common fact. Human Necros against Giant warriors. No one complains. It's a known fact, so....

I support the changes of lowering the skills of shifters. Not that I'm playing one anyway. Kudos, Imms.

Go ahead and play one now, try it before you snuff the new changes.

You are welcome to play this elusive dominant shifter, and demonstrate how getting the forms slightly earlier leads to horrible unbalance.

Low-to-mid-level shifters were something of a burden during ranking. They weren't remotely a threat in PK until hero range. Moving the forms earlier addresses this without altering hero combat much.

Considering that several other recent changes lowered the overall power of a hero shifter (allowing them to be effected by maledictions, etc.), I don't think your argument holds any water.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

'You are welcome to play this elusive dominant shifter, and demonstrate how getting the forms slightly earlier leads to horrible unbalance.'
I'm not saying they clear their ranges. I'm just saying shifters get a lot for nothing. My greatly geared ap got 2 rounded by a naked ram. The only downside they have for that kinda strength is it's hard to rank.

'Low-to-mid-level shifters were something of a burden during ranking. They weren't remotely a threat in PK until hero range. Moving the forms earlier addresses this without altering hero combat much.'
I've heard many people say, one of the things that stops them from playing a shifter/made them stop playing their shifter is the pain it is to hero a shifter. I've always considered their difficulty to rank their weakness.

'Considering that several other recent changes lowered the overall power of a hero shifter (allowing them to be effected by maledictions, etc.), I don't think your argument holds any water.'
I always thought of it this way. You get what you pay for, when it comes to pk, in many cases. Necros are EXCELLENT in pk against Many race/class combos, but are harder to rank. Invokers are as well, but there is uber practice involved. Cloud Warrior Sword spec is pretty buff, but generally quite gear dependant. You're eagle/lion can kill many race/class combos naked with no preps, and if not, its only a matter of timing. It's easy to flyto attack a guy all day.

I'm not sure how much easier this change will make it to rank up a shifter. I know it can't hurt, though. I think it comes down to the fact I hate all the air/off, no rp, log on when they are bored with other chars and try to pk anything that moves, chars. I just don't want a whole lot more of them, because seriously, shifters aren't that fun to fight. No gear, no weaps, no skill, yo.

My argument is this, they are lame and easy. The logs and my personal experiences where the people spam 10 commands of flyto/bite or swimto/murder ckroeg and WIN reliably with #### gear... I just don't want a whole lot more of them.
Just my opinion though, I'll drop it here.

"You're eagle/lion can kill many race/class combos naked with no preps, and if not, its only a matter of timing. It's easy to flyto attack a guy all day."

It's not as easy to roll up an eagle/lion as you might think. Also, they do have drawbacks. I have not seen too many eagle/lions lately.

I think it comes down to the fact I hate all the air/off, no rp, log on when they are bored with other chars and try to pk anything that moves, chars. I just don't want a whole lot more of them, because seriously, shifters aren't that fun to fight. No gear, no weaps, no skill, yo.

By now if you haven't noticed, the staff keeps a tight focus on balancing things out. See Valg's article on "Change-Fearers". We're not out to get you, and each change was made after much thought. In actually, *gasp* we want you to enjoy a balanced game!

If anything, the unbeatable eagle/lion is more an artifact of history than something you need to despise. There are probably far nastier characters now than the uber eagle/lion, if it ever does arise.

NT

I think his point is why should the 'easiest, cheesiest class' receive bonuses, not that the changes were going to necessarily make them more deathful at hero.

Or at least, that's my point.

An example of the average shifter fight? No, no this isn't a real fight, it never actually happened, just an example.

You sink your teeth into George.
Your bite maims geroge!

You dodge George's cleave.
You dodge george's cleave
You dodge George's frigid chop.
You dodge George's cleave.
Your claw MASSACRES George!
Your claw DISMEMBERS George!
George parries your claw.
George dodges your claw.

George whirls his <insert axe>, hitting you with the points!
George's whirl MASSACRES you!

George's cleave MASSACRES you!
George's frigid chop MANGLES you!
George's cleave MANGLES you!
Geroge's cleave DISMEMBERS you!
George's frigid chop MASSACRES you!
George parries your claw.
Geroge parries your claw.
George dodges your claw.
George parries your claw.

Even that little str/dex loss cripples most forms. But you say "what about lemur and mongoose!?" If you die to a lemur or a mongoose, its your own damn fault..its not like they can keep you in battle or anything. =P The shifter can't even do *anything* about it. If warrior is getting owned by a dagger spec that he fights constantly he can start gearing for str/dex, he should be anyway. That dagger spec gets a nasty surprize when George's axes don't drop in the next fight. A shifter can't do #### except trying to find a bracer that gives 20 hp rather then 15. Shifter is the only class that can't gear differently to deal with things. Thats a rather hefty disadvantage.

What classes can't lay down a little maladicting goodness? Conjurer's can't, if they have a devil it can though. Generally a conjurer doesn't have a problem with shifters anyway. Healers and invokers can't. But neither of those are going to have a problem unless they're caught without dam redux up.
Rangers and thieves have some maladicts, not great ones though but they both have a rather easy way to avoid fighting shifters.
And I'm sure you wern't complaining about shifter on shifter battles.

And whats this "lag command"? What forms have a lag command? Orangutan has one, but it doesn't lag all the time. What other form does? I personally can't think of one. Lion's rake might cause a little? Not sure.

And you want to get away from a air major? Recall. Most temples are inside and by the time they get to you you're fully healed. Gotta love one of the best tatics in pk: Heal heal.

So, is a shifter getting his form a couple levels earlier REALLY that much of a deal? So you'll have to deal with that golden eagle at lv 45 (Have no idea if this is accurate, just generalizing) rather than 51. Ouch.

First major form comes somewhere around 45. Let's say that becomes 42. As a human shifter, you can use your lion form on people at rank 33. Rank 33's will not be able to handle a lion. And yes, rake does appear to lag.

My problem with shifters isn't their power or lack of power. It is the lack of technique involved in most shifters' fighting. Someone who kills with a lion doesn't normally do more than rake and hope the enemy keels over dead, or prep and do it. I'd like to see forms get more useful attacks but have pure power reduced a little. Taking a lion as an example...

Perhaps let lions get their claws dirty on a corpse, giving their claws a short duration disease special attack (to follow). However, take away rake and give them claw swipe, which just hits with one claw for lowish damage (say dismembers), but causes a little bleeding, and also a short duration disease (say 3 hours) if the lion has clawed a corpse recently. Also give them claw bat, which is a one round lagging attack that doesn't do that much damage. Let rake become more similar to backrake, but only doable on foes that are prone (e.g. have been bashed, or are resting when the lion catches them). Give the lion a roar attack that has a small (say 20%) chance of deafening. Give him a snarl that lowers morale can has a small chance of making an oppoent flee.

In return, tone down his overall power so that he hits less often or for less damage, and then allow him to give to cover maladictions in form. At present, I really don't think there is a lot of skill involved in most shifter pk (and there wasn't when I played my shifters either!).

If you are forced to use that, you'll have people camping at your recall to gang you.

And as an air form shifter, it is very easy to fly down and fly off against most opponents that are not already hurt, and finish them if they are. Especially as you can fly down, shift into offense form, and attack in one round. If they are fighting a mob, they might well be lagged for that length of time already. If they aren't you can fly off instead of shifting into offense form or whatever. I know how easy it is because that's what I did with mine. That was before maladictions but equally I never used preps.

>The easiest, cheesiest class just got easier and cheesier.
>Now, not only can you pk a decent # of race/class combos at
>hero by spamming flyto;shift;lagcommand $targ with no gear or
>preps, you can now do it easier and quicker!


Sober up, Chicken Little, the sky isn't falling.

>Sober up, Chicken Little, the sky isn't falling.

It's another crack in the dam.

"They're just a few little cracks, the dam is so big. Don't worry about it."

Now their corpses are bloated and waterlogged.