I posted this on the other place, but figured I'd post it here in the attempts to actually maybe get some feedback.... And I've added a few things....


In all, I like almost every change I've seen in cf since my return.

Except......


Back in the day, quest forms were rare.....maybe 2 people at once had one, then you'd go 2 years with noone having any.

When the elf healer became a necro and little toy kitten pet of Zorszaul....That was UNIQUE!...and it was obvious the rp was there that she really really deserved it.

So many duergar tried to become lightwalkers and join knights, ....I think one or two actually made it...and they were gimped, and had awesome rp.


Now....thief outlander. Assassin outlander. Quest forms are a dime a dozen. Fire necro...

Dwarf invoker....

character NAMED a city...breaking naming rules....not only game mechanics stuff like race/class combo....but the chosen RULES of conduct.....not only imm approved, but imm sponsored.

Are we getting to the point where the exceptions are getting too common and ho-hum?

If this is a conscious decision by the immstaff, make it easier to play something "unique" so that unique isn't unique anymore (You can see where I fall on this)....

Does the same change apply to things like mummies and liches? If race/class breaks, and class/cabal breaks are now to be commonplace....are spectres still asked to wait 300+ hours for a lich quest...after their 100 hours of praying for a first interaction...

(Or is it just that spectres now have wight as a default choice so that they can hero without immteraction...even though they have to give up any cabal in order to do it)

But, in general, we talk about it before handing out cool things. More of the player base seems to enjoy the interaction and the rewards that go with it for being cool. The general feedback has been positive on mixing things up. Not everything is going to agree with everyone. Quest forms should be given to good shifters. We have them, we should use them to enhance the excitement. The percentages of those who get them and those that don't is so vastly different, that it doesn't really bother me. If the players earn it, I wouldn't mind seeing more of them.

Thieves and assassins have always been allowed in Outlander. But, it used to be through immortal induction only. Since so few have actually tried to do it, we leave it to the mortals to induct. It's still so few that it really isn't an issue.

We get quite a few requests for unique builds. Many are turned down. But, doing something unique is still encouraged. We just have more tools now to make the process a little more easy to do. In the past, when something unique was earned, it could take days, weeks or even months to build that reward. And sometimes the player would delete before it could be completed. Having some cool things at hand that are already available makes it easier to enhance a character's life before they do that. Case in point, recently, we had the bulette. I didn't hear one bad thing about this character and many folks thought he had earned it even though he didn't think he did. The response from that particular player and from those who interacted with him made it absolutely a good call. It may have extended that players enjoyment with that character for 300 hours.

I don't code, so fixing those types of issues isn't really something I do unless asked from a rp side.

Liches and Mummies remain unchanged. We have players now who don't have the time to invest in Becoming quests, so Wights were introduced so that someone like that could play a necromancer to hero.

(Imagine I just minded my own business from here on out.)

Yes, please.

"coreect if me if i'm wrong, but scarab just said that halflings are real, for whomever sends that brave email"

I've sent emails and if they give it to someone before me, I will burn down the nearest city to myself.

We hates them!

And even directly after playing. I know I personally sunk a ton of effort into giving feedback on orcs and after all that, only over the last couple of months was headbutt fixed, even though I had specifically outlined it as useless several times.

If I do that while I'm still playing the character, I know for a fact I'm going to get labelled as a whiner who just can't figure out how to win or whatever.

The point of this is to encourage you (the ImmStaff) to give feedback on the feedback and not just assume the person is either a whiner, or otherwise wrong when maybe the issues is crappy code (I'm looking at you headbutt) that's been wrong forever.

Perhaps you should engage some veteran players and have them specifically give feedback that you can put more stock into?

"If I do that while I'm still playing the character, I know for a fact I'm going to get labelled as a whiner who just can't figure out how to win or whatever."

This x10.

I'm sorry that's been your experience. I'm pretty sure I haven't dismissed someone as a whiner if they've provided legitimate feedback on game balance issues (that I was specifically working on).

n/t

But look at http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=96657#96670 and notice how many skills I listed as useless in 2010 that are/were still considered useless until Daevryn did something about it like last month.

While I would now revise that list somewhat (and some of that is based on edges that may or may not have existed at the time) I'd say 80% is would have still been valid at the end of 2013. If you really want feedback, you have to have a better turn around time than 3 years. To be fair, some tweaking happened and I don't recall exactly what went in when, but I think it shows the gist of my post.

You are reaching out and that is good. I'm not trying to throw it back in your face, but you have to understand that literally years of frustration does leave me specifically with a lot of goodwill on the feedback front.

Also, some (most?) imms don't really check their emails in my experience.

RE: the comment you make in Thrunna's PBF (that Dirt Kick and 27 other skills possessed by Berserkers are 'useless'), that sure doesn't give me much to work with. As such, I wouldn't assume that there is a 3 year turnaround time based on trying to correlate your comment that all those skills were useless in 2010 and some code updates made in 2013.

On why certain skills were of dubious value but I'm not going to search for it. Daevryn posts a call for useless skills and people post stuff on that list and things get changed. I post a list of useless skills (not 100% accurate in retrospect) and get zero response.

I'm not trying to over belabor the point any more than I already have.., but you (in the general sense) don't take unsolicited feedback or do anything with it.

So don't ask for feedback, and then tell me how it isn't useful when I provide it (and get no response), it isn't like *I* didn't try.

Look, I'm sorry I said anything. Let's just pretend I didn't even reply.

Scar solicits feedback. Tac interprets this as general ImmStaff solicitation (could be a mistake in retrospect)

Tac gives feedback: It is tough to do while playing something or directly afterward due to perception of whining and suckitude.

Tac suggests 2 things to help with this:

A) Respond to feedback with something.
B) Solicit feedback from veteran players you trust a little.

Scar apologizes for Tac past experience (good), displaces blame by saying, "Well *I* don't do that."* Does not actually address suggestions.

Tac responds with negative post about how, even if Scar doesn't ignore feedback, it is generally ignored: Here is an example.

Scar responds with: Your feedback was useless, and the fact that some of those skills were changed sometime later means nothing.

Tac says: Maybe my feedback was useless, but at least I tried. No one even bothered to respond.

Scar decides he is done soliciting feedback because it didn't please him, thus proving Tac's point re: You don't really want feedback.

That is my view of the conversation, from my point of view. If you just wanted ego strokes for feedback, then ask for that. I like the game, I can tell you what it awesome about it.


(*) Additional unsolicited (now) feedback: A proper response from a customer service perspective is something like, "We'll make an effort to be less inclined to jump on the whiner bandwagon in the future, but you do realize we deal with people like Pro, right?" - Then we all laugh and walk away.

Perhaps someone should point out to you that the admin is a fluid thing. There once was a man named Zulgh and a psychotic named Cyradia. Scarab barely existed and Corrlaan was dead and gone, now they are returned. Lyristeon nearly became a name I didn't remember and now his tattoo is in play and the Outlander cabal is getting shaken up even more. Same for Amaranthe. Gone, and now back. Iunna was a bad ass player and then immortal and now gone. They could even come back. Bad blood doesn't always stay bad blood.

I know long term thinking is hard for human beings, but recognize that this game has been around longer than some of its players have been alive. #### changes. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. It's not static.

Four years ago. Seriously FOUR years ago you posted feedback and it didn't get answered to your satisfaction. Now someone claims (and seems to deliver too, at some capacity at least) to be attempting to redouble their efforts in that regard and you are acting like a spoiled princess.

Maybe immortals are too dumb to point this out to you, or maybe they think it is so painfully obvious that they can't imagine someone dumb enough to need it explained to them. I don't know.

What exactly are you pointing out, that I'm a spoiled princess?

I thought I was providing what Scar asked for... feedback.

You posted a big list of skills you think are useless. That is not feedback.

Scar tells you he needs more to work with than a big list of skills you don't like.

You say "I posted details, go look them up you lazy sack. Not only do I want you to fix my feedback, but I want you to go search for it."

Scar sighs and resigns himself to remembering that people are ####ing retarded.

You complain about how he should act the same way a multi-million dollar company's customer service acts like he has a few thousand dollars to blow on keeping you (his customer) happy.

"I'm sorry that might've been your experience." "Please provide feedback."

I feel like the proper response is sure, will do. I will, absolutely, I'll just probably email it if I'm the only wight around because I don't want to be labeled as a crybaby on the forums.

In other words, let's not rehash stuff that happened in the past. Take his word for it and move forward.

Please. You hurt my heart :(

Voralia was reborn.

Many of the examples you laid out are gimped in some way. And their are consequences to bad RP. I would expect great RP from someone who gets a perk like this.

So in short, no. Because the sky is the limit.

The true question is what will you do when you reach it?

gr