Why has the mud been pulled so tightly to playing goodies? It has become a chore to log on and be out numbered 5-1. Sure I can go after them and try to kill them, but out of range healers and paladins show up to ensure they live. What can be done to change this? wait for the pendulum to shift? Are rewards and other goodies the reason everyone is playing a goodie atm?

These threads are always so surreal to me, maybe because I have different ideas of what being an underdog means.

I take a look at the top 10 kill counts on current characters and... it's 9 evils and a neutral. 0 goods. And that's pretty much the way it always is.

Is that we need that fiction or we wouldn't have anything to annoy you with, and consequently we'd never hear from you. Why don't you call more?


Sorry.

probably isn't getting any KBs because they usually have about a 1 in 5 chance of being the one to land the kill and most of their opposition is logging of or hiding, so this statistic isn't necessarily relevant.

Doesn't really matter. Maybe you haven't noticed but when there's 7 enemies online at the same time, there are no imperials and barely any nexus around. In short, people don't play when they're outnumbered like that, they roll lowbies and play those instead.

So the question is, how do we give people incentive to not abandon their outmatched characters until better weather conditions prevail? When I log in my imperial, I'm by myself. I can't get my cabal item back through that kind of healing. Rest of the cabal is too sissy to play even though we have 24? people so we'd be fine if people actually logged in. Starts to look really good to log into a different toon so that I can enjoy the 3 hours I have available.

Now personally, I find stuff to do and I'm out hacking away killing whoever I can catch with their pants down. But I'd totally be down with getting some loving for doing it ;).

The short of it from my experience is to never roll alts. If you only have that one imperial, if you login and are outnumbered you just avoid your enemies the best you can and gather preps or master skills or explore. If you are that consistent force, you will get rewarded for it over time and will build up the cabal over time. This is a lot more rewarding then rolling strong cabal member #5235 and being forgotten after you get frustrated over never getting the killing blows.

I don't think we should phrase these as you do hard stuff you are likely to get rewarded for it. Even when players do hoe the hard road a sizeable percent don't see any reward beyond the kudos of their fellow players.

*I am not saying we need more rewards but while there is sometimes a correlation between lone wolfing and rewards its not as much as actively seeking imm attention gets rewards.

more bash

I want an orc so bad, but every time I get to rank 20 or so I'm like, UGH ####ING WEAPONS TAKE FOREVER TO LEARN! Heh.

Honestly, Torak is kinda right. Stick around in lean times and try to kick some ass when able. I definitely took notice when Soviatos was sticking it out alone, same with Sehdara and Kraldinor. It wasn't all that long ago that Gedunthos, Gharzal, Ankhran and company took *every* cabal item in the game and Empire was dominant.

Twist I think nailed it in the townhall is that the swings are way faster than they were. With a smaller playerbase you don't have a smoother transition to who is in power. It's quick...very quick. A few people delete and suddenly your 4 on 1 advantage becomes 1 on 1, then that quickly becomes 1 on 4.

So it will end. It ended really quickly the last time good was up, and the Empire reign ended really quickly. Sometimes it can ping pong back and forth just in virtue of when you log on.

I would be curious on ideas for how to help make it more fun to play the 'down' side. However, these ideas can't be something that make it less fun to be on the up side. If someone likes playing Fort and have stuck it out, I don't see a reason to *punish* people for playing what they like, but ways that make it more fun to be outnumbered? I'm curious.

"I would be curious on ideas for how to help make it more fun to play the 'down' side. However, these ideas can't be something that make it less fun to be on the up side. If someone likes playing Fort and have stuck it out, I don't see a reason to *punish* people for playing what they like, but ways that make it more fun to be outnumbered? I'm curious."

Some ideas below:

Title rewards and immteraction even if brief. This happens but too rarely. If you're watching a guy who is just chugging away solo, I think it's fine to toss him 100 imm XP and an echo about his courage.

Better edge points for PVP when according to Nexus you're odds are awful.

Tell the Empire inners to STFU when there's 3 healers and 4 paladins logged in defend.

More pieces of reward gear - BUT - these should not be new ultra-OP gear, they should just be normal pieces of gear reskinned that return on death. Example, it can be annoying to regather the same weapon 4 times in one session if you die a lot.

I like the first and third ideas here.

Titles/Small rewards: I've been trying to do that when I notice it. I agree though. A shift in culture immside to give the small stuff out more would be nice. 500xp or a title isn't going to break the game and will make sticking it out a bit more fun for folks if they feel like they're getting noticed.

Edge Points: I like the idea in concept but in practice I'd like it to be a little smarter. Maybe take cabal numbers into account as well. But the basic concept of "YOu're undermanned and you kill someone, you get a sweeter pile of edge points" I like.

Empire Inners: Personally I'd be in favor of shutting them up completely. :) There's an active Empire imm now who can yell at people who're being weenies.

Reward Gear: So basically a regular item that behaves a bit like a leader item that insta-poofs to you if you die? I actually like that idea since right now a piece of gear is a kinda crappy reward since if you die, it's gone. But if you got some generic 20hp, 2hit/2dam, -8 svs item...which would be nice but not game breaking...and it autopoofed? I like that idea. We'll see what the other folks say though. I am, once again, in now way the final say of game balance and what makes it into the game, but I like the suggestions. Keep'em comin.

I really like the idea of giving personalized gear as a reward to players that acts like a leader weapon and comes back to you on death.

I think it would add a lot more flair to the game if characters could get a piece or two like this. It kind of makes sense RP-wise that prolific heros would have personalized gear.

In my opinion most should be a solid piece of hero level gear that fits the character and is on par with a nice limited piece. Nothing game breaking with crazy progs. But, for instance, if you're a warrior maybe something with nice +dam and +str and throw in saves or hp too. Something a bit more than fluff but isn't over powered.

Also, another suggestion would be to give them the ability to cover basic preps so they don't have to spend tons of time regathering preps. Like some basic DR such as protection, or the fly spell. Another idea would be to give a small reduction to a vuln, like 10% or something to where they are still vulnerable, just not as much as others of the same race.

Personally, I think this should be an option to extend beyond characters who face tough odds to include long lived characters who didn't win a RC or aren't extraordinary standouts already aptly rewarded. Titles are neat, but, when you put 250+ hours into a character and thats all you get, it kind of seems a let down. At that much time, a hero of that age should have some unique qualities about them.

Yeah, I like that idea as well. A good example would be prot vs good or prot vs evil or fly or stoneskin or detect invis. These are things people get anyway, so there's nothing game breaking about it. It's not like giving sanc to a warrior. I really like that idea.

I think as long as it's not ABS and it's just one common prep it should be fine.

I think most of these are too much, but I still like the basic idea. Maybe a lesser spell like desensitize, or some of the random ones you can find in off the wall potions like accuracy, or very slight elemental resistances?

I'll tell you that my non-village evil PCs are going to have prot vs good and detect invis and fly on hand all the time. You'd just be saving me money. Stoneskin preps usually have downsides, so maybe exclude that.

Edited to add : btw I mean one of these as a reward, not all of them. Free detect invis or prot shouldn't break anything.

Yeah I agree. I'm thinking of preps that most people typically have on hand. I don't see why that would be over the top.

If I'm lone Imperial guy against a bunch of forties, it would be a nice boon to not have to run off and replenish your protection potions while you're trying to retrieve.

I know some people play with minimal preps. But, in my mind if you want to be a serious competitor certain preps are pretty much mandatory otherwise you risk eating a "D'oh!" death because you didn't take the time to buy, say, flight potions. To me these include detect invis, flight, some sort of Dam redux and possibly enlarge/reduce.

On a related note, I remember seeing characters who were given purge poison and purge plague as a reward. Those too would be nice. Does that ever happen anymore? How often is fireblood (is that it?) given out?

Part of it is the constant gathering of preps forces you to lay off of PK for periods of a time. I would be annoyed to face someone who had gotten some nice prep spell rewards for facing bad odds as a youth who is now emperor of a massive army. Myself, I'd rather get the quirky spells that are harder to gather anyways.

But, they would still have to gather other preps, right?

Say you gave them the flight spell. They'd still have to go get all the other preps they like/need to use.

So while it wouldn't totally negate their prep time it would just shave a little time off it it. Plus, if they get looted they'd still have to regear too.

It's just an idea. I still like the customized gear idea. I actually like that better than the prep one.

Considering the implications of fly and trip, I would never want to see it given away unless for a very deserving RP reward myself. How many times have characters thought they had a few more flight potions, not had them, flight dropped, and they died? Now giving away armor, ironskin, accuracy, etc. I could potentially like..

Claw your way to the top of a mountain of Squire corpses. Provide incentives for neutral or otherwise uninterested parties to join you. Strategy and tactics can defeat a goodie mob, if you have a little luck on your side. Just don't be afraid to try and look for chances to go on the offense whenever possible. Always play cautiously. You have a lot more to lose than a bunch of gear-locker, chicken #### goodies.

And I don't mean to direct this at you, but if people are tired of the fort, roll imperials and play them. If you log on and your range is ####ty, hang around and hope some help shows up (this may take a month or two). Sometimes, if people notice one person is hanging in there they will feel bad for them and then they will roll an Imperial as well to try to help you out. If two or three people do this and are sticking it out, all of a sudden you are landing a kill here or there and gaining some momentum and then more people roll Imperials. The you get some decent fights, and after that everyone that is playing fort decides to play something else because courage doesn't mean padding other people pk stats and people start complaining about Empire.

Black circle is one of the best powers for group on group cabal fights in the game if you get to the point you can take advantage of it.

My first Nexus warrior was rolled because Outlander was getting WTFBBQ-####-stomped by the Tribpire at the time and I thought Xinrithil and Drokk were awesome and showed rain or shine.

My Empire shifter was specifically rolled because Sivyh was struggling right after he got Empire and I have a soft spot for Isildur.

Etc etc.

Black circle I always figured was best solo, since if you have a gang you don't need to lag them on the summon. Either way it's a sick power.

Anyway, in terms of characters rolled I don't think that good has a monopoly, it's more about characters heroed. The good heroes typically have been around for a long time, with leisure to explore in large groups and gear to the nines, so just one of them is enough to take on a couple of low hero-range evils, but instead the evils that get into hero range get ganged down by 2-3 of the decked out goodies, and understandably delete before they get run out of con anyhow.

Of course there are exceptions and the odd scion wrecking ball gets through, but they're going to shave their own con off the average low-hero range evil.

I don't think this is going to change until we have another active Emperor, and even then when you get 3 + Empire hero range on the priority is always raiding rather than heroing the lower levels or teaming up to get area explore gear.

Couple good Nexus would turn this around. I wish there was a way to allow a Nexus shaman.

I have always wanted to do Nexus Paladin, but I am horrible are writing roles. SO the "Fancy/out of the box" roles are out of reach for me.

And more the role play that gets you along the way. Have a basic role, then just RP, and update roles with (so and so is evolving as a character, he sympathizes with the balance.). For me, the best and most fun characters evolve on their own. Sirak is still one of my favorites to play, as sucky as he was.

Ignore attachments...no clue what's going on.

...but signing up for an alignment change and all 300-400 hours of what that entails isn't one of them.

When you can mechanically roll a neutral/neutral Nexus shaman then I'll roll a Nexus shaman.

Soviatos and Noviask were both made during the high of Fortress players. I consistently wound go to retrieve against 2-3 healers, paladins, you name it.... but I stuck it out and I stayed online. A lot of it is being a veteran and having the skill but moreso than that is the desire to not give in.

I'd say 90% of the time I logged on, there'd be no one in Empire... if you gave it thirty minutes, there would always be a few Imperials who would login - was it because I was on? Maybe but if anything they stayed on because they weren't alone.

So login and tough it out... it'll change. You also get a lot of attention from the Immortals when you login the hard times and play it out... if anything to entertain others ;)

you know, in relative terms

That was basically the time of Jawn Foote, Ekaerok and Azhelak.

So fort still had the numbers. Once Oshui age died and Ekaerok imm'ed things got easier. Even before Ekaerok imm'd outlander numbers weren't that big, but they were usually running around with fort if they had any common enemies online so were still a big factor when you grouped them together. Once Tolgrum died, several fort hero's auto'd about 30 days later.

Fortress was slowly leaving, but the Codex was almost always at the Fortress. It really started around the level sitting days of 36-40 where I'd have Fortress members defending/fighting with a paladin or healer healing them the entire time.

It wasn't until I hit the hero range when they really started disappearing and it was because I kept killing them ;)

While I was Goryn, the Duergar A-P who got exactly 1 PK. It's when I realised you were a cut above the other A-P's I'd seen at that point in my CF career and sent you a tell about how you were going to be Dreadlord.

Kinda both right. There were a lot of times in the middle of the day if Oshui or Tolgrum were not around I could take the orb and you were able to defend against retrievers. Noviask had later play times than I did (I was typically morning/afternoon), so I think it tended to be more fort around in the evening during that time.

As it would work out most days Tolgrum would log out in the morning shortly before I had to, with the rest of fort following normally and I would be able to recover right before I had to log out.

I think the big drop off in fort was mainly driven behind Oshui and Tolgrumm both dieing off and the majority of the players of fort chars at that time not wanting to play without a strong character to rally behind. I'd say kinda the second tier behind those two were Huldon and Irelorn who both disappeared before Tolgrum died off.

I still can't believe Goryn wasn't wielding an unholy when he got the KB on Tolgrum