1. Are their restrictions on what to hunt (i.e. will you get in trouble for ranking on animal-type mobs?)

2. Can you be inducted by the head of a different branch if the leader of your branch doesnt have the same playtimes or does it have to be an imm at that point? And if it does have to be an Imm , how do you go about getting their attention without screwing yourself over?

3. I've only played one outlander in all my time on Cf snd forgot how this works...I noticed when I look at 'help outlander' that the levels for each power you learn is in a range - is this because each skill is learned at a different individual time (like shapeshifters) or because each branch learns a specific skill at a specific time (i.e harvest for reavers at rank 15 wardens at rank 20)?

And this is more a request than a question - Certain cabals allow applicants to learn skills of their respective cabal (ragers can learn detect invisible, empire applicants to pass by centurions, because it makes sense ormakes life slightly easier and isn't overpowered - why not let outlander apps learn to harvest so they arent constantly looking for food? Just a thought!

>1. Are their restrictions on what to hunt (i.e. will you get
>in trouble for ranking on animal-type mobs?)
If you are a class that can see wilderness-type natural animals, it would be frowned upon to hunt them just to learn. Your alignment does play a role in it, but the ultimate goal is to bring harmony to nature. Now, how you bring that harmony is character choice.

>2. Can you be inducted by the head of a different branch if
>the leader of your branch doesnt have the same playtimes or
>does it have to be an imm at that point? And if it does have
>to be an Imm , how do you go about getting their attention
>without screwing yourself over?
If there are 3 leaders, then they should be the one inducting you. That doesn't mean that another leader can't interview and give you a recommendation. If it is a playing time issue, then it can be handled through notes. As far as dealing with the imms, it depends on the imm. Nothing new here. I have inducted for coolness just as other imms have done the same.

>
>3. I've only played one outlander in all my time on Cf snd
>forgot how this works...I noticed when I look at 'help
>outlander' that the levels for each power you learn is in a
>range - is this because each skill is learned at a different
>individual time (like shapeshifters) or because each branch
>learns a specific skill at a specific time (i.e harvest for
>reavers at rank 15 wardens at rank 20)?
Powers are learned by alignment and class.

>
>And this is more a request than a question - Certain cabals
>allow applicants to learn skills of their respective cabal
>(ragers can learn detect invisible, empire applicants to pass
>by centurions, because it makes sense ormakes life slightly
>easier and isn't overpowered - why not let outlander apps
>learn to harvest so they arent constantly looking for food?
>Just a thought!

I would rather skin be the power then harvest. Outlanders are supposed to be self-sufficient and part of the learning process is being able to feed yourself without ties to a city.

It has more tactical place than merely making a water skin or sack. It helps halt liches and other various powers that utilize a corpse. On that note, I wish less things halted the ability to skin corpses that preserve them to be utilized by others.

How many outlanders actually go about collecting food after induction though? It's not like that skill is involved afterwards.

We are not talking about being self-sufficient(that is what the power of harvest is)... it's about it being very tedious. It can stay the way it is, but it was merely a suggestion to make the applicant process less annoying(we are already not purchasing the best preps in the cities and unable to heal as effectively during this process- heal refresh is a huge one).

To cover and compete we have to already go out and harvest all these 'preps' like things. That is just my simple and quickly laid out thoughts.

It seems like it would be beneficial to those same newer players to learn how to forage for food on their own. It forces them to look and explore, and by doing so how to find what you're looking for. Good and early. Considering the how big a factor exploring is for a particular Outlander power, I can't see how it isn't a pertinant thing to learn.

nt

Realisticly you should also be able to kill a wolf or deer and eat it. Not just pray some parts fly off it to eat.
It does seem tedious in a game that is not very realistic in this respect. Running around and gathering food is a base need.

I will play a outlander that has to rely on getting their food from gathering and get back to you. I am fairly certain it is going to piss me off until I get harvest.

How tedious is I'll admit now highly dependant on race/class choice.

Obviously a ranger of any race will have no problems. Choosing say a fire giant warrior I think would be very annoying on the other hand. My one and only outlander was a storm giant shaman and I swear it used to annoy the hell out of me how quickly and often I needed to get food. I mean in RL a person can go three days or something like that without eating, a CF giant...more like a few hours.

This is the reason why I have not played an Outlander since, every time I get ready to play one I think about the food and a shudder goes down my spine and I pick something else.

nt

...might be to put some useful FAQ-like information on cabals here on the site.

When I'm new to a game I'm on the website gobbling down any info I can find. There's something to be said for out of game accessibility to some content that might make the learning curve look not quite so intimidating.

As for harvest as a power, I could take it or leave it, it's not really a big deal to me.

This is paramount to having forage. Sure it would be easier but
really how hard is it to ask someone who isn't evil in the game for
advice about where to gather some food? This should be such a non
issue for people that it should sound laughable.

We should be teaching new players to talk to other people IC,
socialize, group together for more than just hero exploring and
ranking to get there. I do this with every character I play. A rp
reason to do so, isn't very hard to come up with.

I've not played a lot of Outlanders, honestly, but I have had no
problem having plenty of food for them. I did have a little trouble
learning the right mobs to go to, good hunting areas, nice places to
get gear early on but all of these things could be easily rectified
by asking for information from another player. When I did, it didn't
take long, at all, to learn the basics.

My suggestion to anyone that has a complaint about something is to
ask other people how they deal with it, what tactics they use to
fight, what areas they go to gather item X, what paths they take when
they go there. I always remember that every problem has a solution
but each person has their own way of coming up with it.

Anyway, I intended this to be constructive and hope it is conveyed
that way. My biggest message is talk with other players, you could
be surprised what you learn.

nt

I personally don't have a problem getting food. It's a bit of a pain but I can stay alive. The thing is that every time I have that pain I have to ask why it is necessary. From a pure RP perspective there is very little reason and many reasons why it is unlikely that a character applying to Outlander wouldn't already know how to survive in the wilds to a certain degree. Providing Harvest to an applicant would simply be an acknowledgement of this.

I see it as ALOT less of a gamechanger than giving battle apps the ability to detect invisible prior to actually being inducted. They get an actual cabal power that is provided one would assume due to training IN the village but you hit 25th rank and all of a sudden as long as you killed ONE mage and became an official applicant you somehow without any RP explanation can detect invisible versus a set of characters who most likely all have incorporated some modicum of 'wilderness survival' angle into their RP which would I assume include how to hunt food for themselves somehow being unable to feed themselves.

Sometimes things happen to make life easier. Villagers can eat seaweed for example. I remember when I took off for four years and came back to villagers eating seaweed and was like...whaaaaaat?!?


I just happen to think from an RP standpoint it makes alot of sense and doesn't really take away anything from the experience. Considering that some of the outlander powers/abilities depend completely on exploration I don't think it will take away from the learning curve at all long-term for people who pledge Outlander.

Edited to Add:

Let's also not forget that we aren't talking giving 'harvest' at rank one. We are talking at midlevels here. Levels where most apps have already spent some time scrounging for food as they have done now and it should be expected that they would have learned on their own to get food and once again giving 'harvest' would simply be an acknowledgement that someone pledging to outlander and having gotten 'comfortable in the wilds' would know how to feed themselves.

In CF, we earn our abilities. The character you can roleplay is limited by your player abilities. Say I want to roleplay a terrifying antipaladinwho can cut down any foes who stand before him with ease - I have to earn that. Just playing the class and adding role + I am the second coming of Cabdru does not give me the in-game ability to play the role.

Likewise, if you want to RP a self-sufficent outlander who doesn't need coins, perhaps you should have the in-game ability to play that role.

Give harvest for just being a pledge and suddenly it doesn't mean anything, it's just a bit of fluff people will skip over in the helpfile as they look through the power list to design their build.

The problem with your reasoning is that it ignores quite a few things I stated.

First I stated that an app wouldn't get harvest until mid-levels if this happened...which means they already earned it up to the mid-levels and have shown up until mid-levels an in-game ability to play that role.

Second you ignored the examples of other cabals where pledges get 'unearned' cabal powers just for being a pledge and because it makes pledge-life easier.

Getting truesight as a pledge is major. I have played more ragers than any other cabal so I know how major getting truesight is. If we wanted every perk to be earned then get rid of truesight for battle apps because frankly killing one mage isn't earning it.

Being inducted is. I understand your argument you see. I could survive easily as a battle app without truesight, without being able to eat seaweed, without being able to drink quaggoth blood, or use items which cure plague/poison, etc. Back in my day a villager had his cabal powers and that was it. And apps didn't get anything. Hell back in my day if you used potions or wore magical items around a villager you were risking your life, mage or warrior, or whatever. I would survive it all because I already have.

But things...change. Things that were unthinkable have evolved because it either made life slightly easier and more accessible for newbies or it made sense from an RP standpoint or it wasn't such a big deal and improved the quality of the game overall.

Giving harvest at mid-levels to people who have 'earned' it simply by making it to the mid-levels scrambling for food up until that point and thus proven they can survive to mid-levels while scrambling for food isn't a gamechanger. It as mentioned is an acknowledgement that makes a whole lot of sense....alot more sense than a whole host of changes that have happened over the years in CF that were far more significant....like allowing rager apps to get truesight.

revolve around trying to figure out how not to starve before I get inducted.

Well not really. I think I actually agree with CD on something (I think this is the second time), although I can usually collect enough steaks in FON to make it until I get inducted or I have given up.

>1. Are their restrictions on what to hunt (i.e. will you get
>in trouble for ranking on animal-type mobs?)

Outlander can be tricky to answer because all alignments can participate. Generally, you should consider that you're in a nature-themed cabal, and wanton needless murder would be considered a bad thing. On the flip side, it's the way of nature that creatures have to kill each other to survive. My advice would be that your characters should have respect for nature and act accordingly.

>2. Can you be inducted by the head of a different branch if
>the leader of your branch doesnt have the same playtimes or
>does it have to be an imm at that point? And if it does have
>to be an Imm , how do you go about getting their attention
>without screwing yourself over?

Ultimately Amaranthe, Lyristeon, and Streinat would be the final say, but generally the leaders are kept to their alignment. As far as getting their attention, an occasional polite tell or prayer won't cause anyone to come down and slaughter your character. At worst, the Immortals are busy or may tell you patience in finding the appropriate leader.

>3. I've only played one outlander in all my time on Cf snd
>forgot how this works...I noticed when I look at 'help
>outlander' that the levels for each power you learn is in a
>range - is this because each skill is learned at a different
>individual time (like shapeshifters) or because each branch
>learns a specific skill at a specific time (i.e harvest for
>reavers at rank 15 wardens at rank 20)?

It's class-based. The more nature-esque your class is, the earlier you typically learn the cabal powers.

>And this is more a request than a question - Certain cabals
>allow applicants to learn skills of their respective cabal
>(ragers can learn detect invisible, empire applicants to pass
>by centurions, because it makes sense ormakes life slightly
>easier and isn't overpowered - why not let outlander apps
>learn to harvest so they arent constantly looking for food?
>Just a thought!

I'm almost certain that got brought up for a Santa Zulg in recent years, and I would have sworn that did get implemented, but maybe not. If it didn't...well, the best I can do is give you advice. First of all being that Outlanders are against coin, not business. Feel free to barter with nature-friendlier shopkeepers for food in exchange for items of value. Secondly, if you're strictly a hunter-gatherer sort, many of the animals in the Northern Plains will drop food. Go do a little bear or deer hunting out there, and good luck!

There are free items to pick up in places like the Feanwyn Weald and various other locales relatively close to towns (Balator Fields is another example) My Outlander apps generally barter for food from guys like the one in Aldevari, eat body parts while I'm leveling/working on skills, and grab these items when I'm near them.

nt

Who does this help the most? Newbies who want to try Outlander.
Just let them have harvest.

Next time you'll want auto-induction.

Auto-induction we already have. It is called Empire.

Come on. Let applicants put in some effort.

Making the game easier, makes it easier for new players. Can I roll an outie without harvest? Sure, I've done it a TON of times...I've also played this game for 15 years.

I'd rather have a new player turned 'on' to the game by something like harvest for pledges (making their life easier) Than turned off, by what an absolute ####ing pain in the ass it is to get 'rolling' in this game.

Quit being so ####ing elitist, it isn't helping anyone.

Because I had no idea how to get *anything* without coins. Newbie guides advise you where to buy recall potions and lowbie gear but they do jack if you want to be an outtie.

Some cabals are inherently less newbie friendly, either live with that or stop being a hypocrite and let newbies be scions too.

To be honest, I don't even know why I argue. Fine, give outtie apps harvest. Whatever.

>Because I had no idea how to get *anything* without coins.
>Newbie guides advise you where to buy recall potions and
>lowbie gear but they do jack if you want to be an outtie.

I hate to say it but this can be used by both sides. Making it so they can always gets food encourages them to learn further. Not less.
It is like hitting a roadblock. What stopped me from playing Outlander as a newbie was that I would have starved to death many times over.

I can understand where you are coming from. I just disagree.

I almost wish I had some IMM input as to their decision. This could actually be a very good discussion with their input.
And why it is the way it is now. There might be reasons we have not even considered.


>Some cabals are inherently less newbie friendly, either live
>with that or stop being a hypocrite and let newbies be scions
>too.

I do not believe Outlander should be less newbie friendly.


>To be honest, I don't even know why I argue. Fine, give outtie
>apps harvest. Whatever.

The point is not to argue, it is to discuss. If you are arguing you will just meet frustration. This is the internet after all.
You will note, I am not saying you are wrong about if they should get harvest.
I'm only giving you the why I feel the way I do.

The why is important.

You don't have anything for granted except your class abilities.

I've seen too many muds where food and drink doesn't matter; where all mage classes can gate, where noremove weapons are abundant and everyone can have flight, haste, sanc and detect hidden 24/7, even if they don't have them as class abilities. Monty Haul syndrome at its finest.

Meanwhile, in CF you struggle for every scrap of advantage. Class features matter - because gear and preps to make up for lack of them are scarce and precious.

I savor this atmosphere. It's healthy for the game. It affects PvE and PvP. It's the sole reason I prefer roguelikes to Diablo and one reason I prefer CF to, say, Aardwolf.

Anyway, just musing. I guess it's not end of the world if outlander pledges have harvest.

Thanks for sharing that.

And it's simply food. What is the big deal here? Its not ground breaking. You like gatherings preps? Sure go do that. But please, I dont want to have to go out of my way to forage food all the time because i cant simply buy 10 apple galadon for like 10 coppers.

Using coin then becomes something that you learn to live without in game rather than a meaningless bit of fluff. It's a cabal not a set of powers.

Unless of course, you dislike actually RETAINING new players.

I'm not sure if you're aware, but you're such a arrogant jackass when you post that I instantly want to do whatever the opposite of what you want.

Just an FYI.

If having an opinion that concurs with CD along the lines of "This game is too hard for newbies" constitutes me being "An arrogant jackass" as you so kindly put it.

Do you and I disagree often - yes

Am I passionate about this game, and does my use of words reflect that - yes

Now, lets examine what I wrote

I said " I 100% Agree with CD. Lowbie life needs to be easier. Unless of course you dislike actually RETAINING new players."

So, I agreed with someone's opinion that harvest, a skill that allows you to eat as an outlander should be given to apps.

And this constitutes me being

"An arrogant jackass"

I apologize if I keep taking out the sledge hammer for the rock hammer's job, but holy #### man. It seems 100% common sense to me that the way to attract new players is to make the game more appealing to them. You do this by making it easier for them to 'get into'.

And you respond by calling me a name, I actually just edited out stooping to that very level.

It's not your opinions, it's the way you convey them -- as though anyone who might disagree is clearly insane or stupid.

I re-read my most recent posts, and yea I guess I do use strong language to put my points across...

That being said the language I use is no stronger than the language I see other people using, nor is it any stronger than the language I've read from you in response to other people, or in PBF threads.

If I somehow have hurt your feelings, I apologize as it was not my intention.

I'll also point out, that the only posts that seem to get a quick response are ones of the very nature that you hate.

Below is a post containing an idea regarding sleek quests. Several players have responded to it constructively, yet there is not a single post from IMM-land on that thread, even though it was clearly designed
for their response.

Edit:

I removed my last Paragraph regarding post cherry-picking. Because, I don't want to be overly confrontational to you. I realize that while I disagree with a lot of the decisions coming from our current IMP team that it is still their(your) game. I will try to work on being more constructive in all of my posts.

it's insulting.

Generally those people you see using similar "strong language" are the people who are also terrible at conveyance.

Phrase your opinions as they are, and give evidence for why you believe it. That is all you need to do.

nt