I think observation points have changed from a way to reward players who explore into a means to improve character builds, or at least a means for players to play with edges more.

Edges are one of the more fun aspects of CF, but now part of CF is making sure you harvest observation XP. I seriously considered writing scripts for my lowbies to look at key things just to rack points up - which is why I'm here. WTF?

Wand hunting at least offers a means players to interact and collaborate. Observation xp though now colors almost every group I go on. "Make sure you look at..." etc.

It would be better for looking at stuff to be its own reward - discovering preps and eq, not a rote means for accumulating edge points. How many people do you think are even reading the things they look at? I don't think that's in line with the practice's original intentions.

btw - this has nothing to do with any scripts people have out there, this is about the practice of making sure you look at everything becoming a grind that imposes on the CF fun stick.

I may go 5 and 48 on almost every char so not get any edges that way, but I am l 2., l 3. l 4. with the best of them.

nt

I personally love Observation Xp for a few reasons. One of those reasons is edge points. I'm not the most badass pk'er out there, so the amount of edge points I can get from PK is quite limited unless I'm playing a shifter with a great set of forms (eagle/shark, and eagle/dolphin have been my best thus far). Edge points from Commerce Xp, while possible, are exceedingly tedious to get due to timer for Commerce Xp. This leaves Observation Xp, and Exploration Xp available to me for accumulating edge points. Thanks to Twist's posts in Twist the Season, I now know I can get edge points from cabal retrieval as well, however, the cabal I'm currently playing hasn't had to retrieve ONCE in the 76 hours that I've played this character, and it doesn't look like that's going to be changing anytime soon (obviously it will eventually, but not until the other cabal gets some members with a backbone). Imm Xp for edge points is all fine and dandy, but it's not handed out super frequently. My Imm Xp tends to be predominantly Role Xp, and occasionally a little bit here or there for various things that never really amount to much (I rarely pass 2k Imm XP). I know that I'm not alone in this either. And there are plenty of newer players who have a hard enough time with edge points in general, even from Observation Xp. I know this because I'm often the one taking them on trips to explore areas, and teaching them about some of the rarer aspects of CF.

I probably had more to say than this, but I'm so tired right now that I can't think straight, so I'll just end it there.

I'd be open to discussing additional ways go earn edge and reducing or phasing out some of the existing ways.

As a reminder, some of the goals (which aren't up for debate, only better ways to achieve them) were: people who prefer or excel at different aspects of the game such as pk, rp, exploring/PvM, etc. should be able to get some edge, with "decathlon" characters who are strong in multiple areas getting more.

Do we get anything for successful raids/retrievals? Perhaps after a certain number of them? Maybe a adge or two that only kicks in when fighting inners or outers for people who raid/retrieve alot? Like more experience or something?

Maybe tie the gain of a small amount of edge/imm points with certain things like gaining a lastname or title (if that isn't the case already)

You could perhaps tie specific edges to specific actions (which I think some have suggested) so you get that edge if a specific action has happened alot (like losing streaks), for example if you are constantly drowning, you get the 'last breath' edge (perhaps edge points could slowly 'build up' in specific edges that people don't take often or at all. Seriously does anyone actually pick that as an edge?)

g

Remove observation exp. Instead, do a weekly question via note to all, and anyone who gets it right (via note) gets imm exp or edge points that would make up for the loss of exp potential. This promotes ACTUAL exploration, removes the need to redo it every character, and might get people talking. Of course some people will just look up the answer, because they're lazy sacks but think they're helping, but others won't, and it doesn't matter because those people who would look it up are already just botting the obs exp anyway.

edit: Question about some detail about an area. This could be what color is the glove on the kobold queen's hand or something low level, or could be what are the names of the swords that the captain of the guard of thar-acacia wields?

edit edit: This also promotes longevity.

To expand on this, there are lots of directions you could take an approach like this, the downside is that it's not automated, but still:

1. Short-notice posts to complete an objective task (garden-variety scavenger hunt) )

2. Posts challenging groups of certain ranks to be the first to defeat a certain tough mob. Anything from the red dragon to Tiamat.

3. Challenges to cabals to compete to perform certain tasks or whatever (e.g., Battle and Nexus have to find the lost Veil thickener or whatever)

Really, these are not new - there have always been infrequent awesome quests, but if there was a mechanism to run small challenges and easily reward characters that accomplish a specific criteria, could be a great way to foster interaction, get edge points without the burden of live quests and manually rewarding characters.

Its just if you can find the answer or not within the time frame.

1) Arena wins. Only unique wins should count, though, i.e. how many different opponents you defeat.

2) Being part of a group that kills a mob should give the same obs exp as looking at said mob.

3) Completing quests. Because, honestly, it's much less of a hassle to track quests done instead of areas visited.

4) Gear is one of the best indicators of how strong you are in multiple areas. So characters could get edge points the first time they reach certain damroll, overmax stat, saves or maximum hp. To prevent gaming the system, there shouldn't be any extra bonus for doing all four in turn.

Alternatively, there could be an algorithm to calculate total quality of player's gear and give EP when it reaches certain thresholds for the first time.

>1) Arena wins. Only unique wins should count, though, i.e.
>how many different opponents you defeat.
>
>2) Being part of a group that kills a mob should give the same
>obs exp as looking at said mob.

This is one suggestion that I love. I loved it the first time it was suggested, and I still love it now. Only I would say you don't have to kill the mob, just fight it. Though frankly, this should not REMOVE the option of just looking. Sometimes, you don't want to get instantly hosed just so you can get a little Observation Xp. But not having to worry about looking at the big ass mobs who aggro on you as you try to run by would be great.

>3) Completing quests. Because, honestly, it's much less of a
>hassle to track quests done instead of areas visited.

This would be nice too.

>4) Gear is one of the best indicators of how strong you are in
>multiple areas. So characters could get edge points the first
>time they reach certain damroll, overmax stat, saves or
>maximum hp. To prevent gaming the system, there shouldn't be
>any extra bonus for doing all four in turn.

>Alternatively, there could be an algorithm to calculate total
>quality of player's gear and give EP when it reaches certain
>thresholds for the first time.

Yeah, because we want to encourage gear hoarding by rewarding it with edge points. Moreover, gear is NOT one of the best indicators of how strong someone is in anything. All it takes is one instance of a level 11 standing over a hero's corpse:

Remove all
drop all
g all corpse
wear all

Corpseguard does not always prevent this. There are also many times when PCs get loaded up by other PCs who are feeling generous. I get this all the time, even as a vet. Sometimes it's not even looked for, other times I actively seek it out (usually when my char is still too low to get certain things myself, but I want the perks of having super gear in the early game where it makes more impact).

I would argue that the actual gear bonuses are already a much stronger incentivizer to hoarding, and having a bonus from possessing it for short instant of time wouldn't really worsen the problem.

But I admit that the thought of lowbies looting heroes didn't occur to me.

I think that most chars have at least 1-3 *must-have* edges that they have in mind. It might go a long way towards removing the tedium if you could get some edge points for cabal induction, some edge points from leveling to 30/40/51 and probably boost the returns on commerce.

Might reduce the need to farm obs exp to get that one or two must-have edges.

I know with me, there's a set I need for PVP and then everything else is really just gravy. If you imagine a conjurer, you've got Student/Adept Inner Planes, Student of Earth/Water and Symp Conjuring for instance that are kinda must-have to regularly produce insanely powerful elementals. As a polespec, swath is pretty clutch. As an AP that isn't a giant, the spear/pole edge is kinda clutch as well. So on and so forth.

Assassins have a bunch too that are kinda must-have.

And when I say must-have, I don't mean you can't get by without them (to cut that off), but rather if you're playing a typical way to play those classes, they offer a significant boost in power that you'd need to compete with other similar builds like that historically.

Dunno bout the other ranks.

Pretty sure you also get points for maturity. Almost certain you do for old age.

thanks Rayihn for pointing out Twists's board, I hadn't even noticed.

1. Have some standard "Boss" mobs in common ranking areas that generally require a group to kill. You kill one of these one time, you get edge points. Obviously tied to rank, but I'm thinking black dragon, red dragon, Globsard, chief elder in arendyl, etc. etc. The list of these mobs could even be... in helpfiles!

2. Win big observation edge points if you are the first character to look at something (Ever) in your rank range.

3. Bonuses (edge points) for ranking in tough, unpopular areas, like the arkham skeletons. You kill all the skeletons, edge points!

4. More observation points at higher ranks, and less (or lower cap) at lower ranks. Encourages longevity, discourages edge-point/pk-build point mining at lower ranks, and gets those cabal-sitting fukkers out of their cabal.

5. Reward exploration by literally randomly hiding more limited preps or treats across areas. Not from a preset list of places (or at least not a small list) but literally randomly plop stoneskin potions on kobolds to hook horrors to cracks to chests across the realm.

6. Reward exploration by randomly hiding in areas literal exploration "tokens" that you can take to your guildmaster to show you've been getting out there. Even better, you can lose your token and someone else can cash it in - now that's loot!

And start stealing everyone's visible tokens. And if no tokens are visable, they just steal your containers, tokens, newbie bredz, and all, then go cash them in....

Nothing will put the stress on that evil group ranking together like one of your team finding an edge point token!

It is a tedious grind. The problem is that you've got 3 basic ways to get edge points :

1) Farm PVP kills.
2) Observation XP.
3) Immortal XP.

#1 is probably bad for the game taken to the extreme. #2 is the most viable and straight forward way to get edges that's entirely in your realm of control. #3 is great but, really very rarely rewarded - it's already made roles mandatory in practice which is kinda a bummer.

I don't like all the obs XP farming that goes on but at the same time, I'm not comfortable throwing away my only consistent method of getting edges. I just can't depend on the other two depending on what I'm playing. And since edges are not "tweaks" as originally envisioned, but often simple power boosts to skills you're going to use anyway, they're not really optional for some builds.

Commerce exp, exploration exp, retrieving your cabal item. Probably more that I'm unaware of.

Exploration you get in tandem with observation. Commerce is very hard to farm, much harder to farm than Obs (I'd be ok with loosening this up a bit). Retrievals aren't really in your hands...someone has to take your item and ideally you're going to try to prevent that ;).

It's way easier to run through Organia than it is to get say, 15 cabal retrievals in one session.